Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread: Where every JR update, gives us all Anxiety.

[Headshot77]

I was surprised at how well your offer was received on the trade board. But you're right, it solves alot of problems. It instantly allows them to continue on in their window with the Pietro/Parayko tandem. With 8.5 million in room, they might have to shed a little more to keep Pietro but that gets them much closer.

Honestly, if JR managed to pull that off, without giving up additional sweeteners and futures, I would be bowing down. Faulk is on the books for a long time to come, but with the Seattle expansion and maybe future compliance windows, we could probably move on from him if its a real disaster. But I think Faulk would be a massive success here.

I just saw that he gets paid 9 million in real dollars for the next two years, that's why it's being taken so kindly. I regret everything.

 

[SEALBound]

I'll share my Faulk thoughts here like I did on the main board:

1:1, I think the Penguins say no. JJ is, at the very least, somewhat manageable at 3.25mil for the next 3. There is more of a possibility of swapping him in a crap for crap as well. Once you commit to Faulk for $6.5m for 7 years, that's much more difficult to manage and carries a lot more risk given Faulk's performance.

Sorry, I think the Penguins need an extra incentive. Maybe the 1st or Barbrashev or a quality prospect. Something to counter the risk. Ideally, a young center.

Keep in mind, the Pens taking Faulk allows STL to resign Pietrangelo. That's quite the favor. Certainly more gratuitous than StL taking JJ...

If JR was shrewd, he'd float this idea of the swap and then let it leak to other Central division GMs and other Pietro suitors. Then see if there isn't another team willing to snag JJ to keep this from happening...​

 

[Gurglesons]

I'll share my Faulk thoughts here like I did on the main board:

1:1, I think the Penguins say no. JJ is, at the very least, somewhat manageable at 3.25mil for the next 3. There is more of a possibility of swapping him in a crap for crap as well. Once you commit to Faulk for $6.5m for 7 years, that's much more difficult to manage and carries a lot more risk given Faulk's performance.

Sorry, I think the Penguins need an extra incentive. Maybe the 1st or Barbrashev or a quality prospect. Something to counter the risk. Ideally, a young center.

Keep in mind, the Pens taking Faulk allows STL to resign Pietrangelo. That's quite the favor. Certainly more gratuitous than StL taking JJ...

If JR was shrewd, he'd float this idea of the swap and then let it leak to other Central division GMs and other Pietro suitors. Then see if there isn't another team willing to snag JJ to keep this from happening...​

I mean, I see no reason why St Louis gives up a 1st or Barbrashev with Faulk when they likely can just deal Bozak for minimal return ala Bjugstad and resign Piets.

The issue is they f***ed up the Piets negotiations and it looks like he will not sign there.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

There are also ways to hit an internal cap without actually being under the cap. Kapanen is a perfect example of that. He was on a front loaded contract. So the majority of his contract was paid out by Toronto already and in terms of real dollars he is only owed around 4 for the next two years while taking up 3+mil in terms of cap hit.

I think people are scared that we "won't spend to the cap", when reality is we may just make different types of moves over the next couple years then we may have because of the financial landscape. And I'm sure that will include how any long term contracts are structured.

There are but it’s negligible as is for the Pens. Right now Crosby makes more than his cap hit while Kapanen, Guentzel, Zucker, Johnson and Riikola make less. Plus the difference for Bjugstad’s retention of cap vs retention of salary. $965,000 saved and that’s ignoring that the retention is really all money they’re paying someone not to be there. The following season when Marino needs a new deal not so much. Crosby, Guentzel, Zucker, Riikola and DeSmith all make more than their cap hits with only Johnson and Kapanen making less. $1,340,000 over. I expect the roster to be different by then but that’s what it is right now.

RFAs being signed could shift it around a bit but their cap hits are pretty close to their salaries.

 

[Gurglesons]

There are but it’s negligible as is for the Pens. Right now Crosby makes more than his cap hit while Kapanen, Guentzel, Zucker, Johnson and Riikola make less. Plus the difference for Bjugstad’s retention of cap vs retention of salary. $965,000 saved and that’s ignoring that the retention is really all money they’re paying someone not to be there. The following season when Marino needs a new deal not so much. Crosby, Guentzel, Zucker, Riikola and DeSmith all make more than their cap hits with only Johnson and Kapanen making less. $1,340,000 over. I expect the roster to be different by then but that’s what it is right now.

RFAs being signed could shift it around a bit but their cap hits are pretty close to their salaries.

Warsofsky also saved them like 400K.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Warsofsky also saved them like 400K.

I meant the 2020-21 season and 2021-22 season and didn’t bother looking at the AHL guys anyway.

 

[Riptide]

It's the trouble with being under a cap. Eventually, players that perform are going to want a bigger role and more money. Sometimes you can give that to them, sometimes not. Staal and Bonino both wanted bigger roles but that's the peril of Sid+Geno...lol, you're not Sid or Geno, therefore, 3C is all we can offer. Toughest position to fill IMHO. You need to have enough skill and ability to make the line effective but not skilled enough to warrant a hefty salary and wanting more. Then, like we all do, we get old and you have to find the next gen to fill the role. I mean, Staal and Bones are 32 and Sutter is 31. These aren't the mid-20's guys we lust after (or rather they are no longer the players they were here). You don't see many effect "career 3C" players. It's always going to be a revolving door.

It's also going to be rare that these guys don't "want more". They didn't make the NHL by being complacent. And all it would take to have a chance at more is going to Columbus or Montreal or the likes where they don't have a surefire 2C at the moment. Here they will ALWAYS be a 3c and nothing more.

 

[SEALBound]

Let’s see what the return on Murray is. If it’s futures, then I’d be nervous about the internal cap.

That would be a terrible line of logic and reasoning. Just terrible.

I mean, I see no reason why St Louis gives up a 1st or Barbrashev with Faulk when they likely can just deal Bozak for minimal return ala Bjugstad and resign Piets.

The issue is they f***ed up the Piets negotiations and it looks like he will not sign there.

True but then they lose Bozak who plays an important role with them. Doing the deal with us gets them out of the Faulk contract. Not sure what that's worth to them but I'd rather have Bozak+Pietro+JJ than Faulk+whoever

 

[Gurglesons]

I meant the 2020-21 season and 2021-22 season and didn’t bother looking at the AHL guys anyway.

I don't think the cap cutting is a long term thing. I think it is this year because we have no idea if or how many fans will be allowed in seats next season.

 

[Gurglesons]

That would be a terrible line of logic and reasoning. Just terrible.



True but then they lose Bozak who plays an important role with them. Doing the deal with us gets them out of the Faulk contract. Not sure what that's worth to them but I'd rather have Bozak+Pietro+JJ than Faulk+whoever

Faulk was their 3rd most used D.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

True but then they lose Bozak who plays an important role with them. Doing the deal with us gets them out of the Faulk contract. Not sure what that's worth to them but I'd rather have Bozak+Pietro+JJ than Faulk+whoever

I don't think the Blues need Bozak. Yeah he was good for them when they won the Cup but they do need to find out about Jordan Kyrou sooner rather than later. And when Tarasenko is healthy, Kyrou sits out yet again if they keep everyone up front.

I don't think St. Louis even thinks about the possibility of a Johnson-for-Faulk trade. What if they trade Faulk and still lose Pietrangelo?

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I don't think the cap cutting is a long term thing. I think it is this year because we have no idea if or how many fans will be allowed in seats next season.

I expect it to be a factor the following season because of lingering effects from Covid.

 

[Gurglesons]

I expect it to be a factor the following season because of lingering effects from Covid.

Maybe, but they'll have a firmer idea of what their gate driven revenue will be.

The issue right now is they have no idea when the NHL returns.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Maybe, but they'll have a firmer idea of what their gate driven revenue will be.

But it will likely still be reduced and they’ll be recovering from the direct Covid losses from last season and the coming season.

 

[Gurglesons]

But it will likely still be reduced and they’ll be recovering from the direct Covid losses from last season and the coming season.

You're looking at a billionaires investments as solely based on the Penguins. Their assets are diversified including within the arena. The difference between the economic landscape this year and next if there is gate revenue will be massive.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I expect it to be a factor the following season because of lingering effects from Covid.

Not to mention that the history of these things is a slow steady recovery. After a work stoppage for instance, although those had lingering resentment to deal with.

But people do not immediately all come back. Some never do, such as how I am with restaurants. Once you get used to not going to games, and paying out the nose for the privilege, some choose not to return.

 

[SEALBound]

I don't think the Blues need Bozak. Yeah he was good for them when they won the Cup but they do need to find out about Jordan Kyrou sooner rather than later. And when Tarasenko is healthy, Kyrou sits out yet again if they keep everyone up front.

I don't think St. Louis even thinks about the possibility of a Johnson-for-Faulk trade. What if they trade Faulk and still lose Pietrangelo?

You can have a handshake deal in place (obviously a If-Then premise), sign Pietro, then make the trade. You can go 10% over the cap so they have the space to do that.

Maybe, but they'll have a firmer idea of what their gate driven revenue will be.

The issue right now is they have no idea when the NHL returns.

I think it will be interesting to see what viewing options bring from this. If you only get 50% attendance, there theoretically should be an explosion in the streaming market. NHL Gamecenter and Center Ice could go nuts. Could see some profit sharing from that to help out. Plus, it's not like PPG is free to play in. Lower operating cost in the arena means you maybe able to withstand a smaller gate receipt. They will simply manage that out with the number of service they are willing to provide.

That said, viewing and streaming a lot more scaleable than in person watching.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

You can have a handshake deal in place (obviously a If-Then premise), sign Pietro, then make the trade. You can go 10% over the cap so they have the space to do that.

It just feels like pie-in-the-sky stuff. For all we know, this organization values Johnson more than Faulk as a player.

This is how far the mighty have fallen.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Faulk was their 3rd most used D.

Yeah I don't get why people think Faulk would be available. I get they want Pietro to stay but I also think if he walks and Parayko, Faulk, and Dunn got more of his ice time, you'd see them not miss too much of a beat.

They could have the cap space to go after the insane amount of solid Ufa defenseman available to go with better depth and quality. Like Vatanen would be a solid add there or even Brodie.

 

[SEALBound]

It just feels like pie-in-the-sky stuff. For all we know, this organization values Johnson more than Faulk as a player.

This is how far the mighty have fallen.

Lol, dude, this is all pie-in-the-sky stuff. The odds of a Faulk-JJ deal is 0.0001% chance...but the point is to discuss the theory of it and how it could work and what it would mean. Just fun discussion, not like I'm planning out Normandy here.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Lol, dude, this is all pie-in-the-sky stuff. The odds of a Faulk-JJ deal is 0.0001% chance...but the point is to discuss the theory of it and how it could work and what it would mean. Just fun discussion, not like I'm planning out Normandy here.

Fair enough. I can't get excited about the prospects of Rutherford's next moves. I have lost all faith in his ability to make the right moves. I don't think this team is going to make the playoffs next season, and then from there it is the great unknown (depending on who is managing this franchise at that time, and who is coaching it).

We are Robert Johnson and we are at the crossroads.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

You're looking at a billionaires investments as solely based on the Penguins. Their assets are diversified including within the arena. The difference between the economic landscape this year and next if there is gate revenue will be massive.

No, I’m looking at a billionaire as someone who won’t want to lose money on a sports team. He could fund it the whole time and his finances will be completely fine if he’s suffered at all or hasn’t already bounced back, but I wouldn’t count on him choosing to. Partial gate revenue isn’t going to cut it for the Pens afaik. An improvement isn’t going to send them straight back to their regular spending.

Not to mention that the history of these things is a slow steady recovery. After a work stoppage for instance, although those had lingering resentment to deal with.

But people do not immediately all come back. Some never do, such as how I am with restaurants. Once you get used to not going to games, and paying out the nose for the privilege, some choose not to return.

It’s going to be interesting. Never mind people choosing not to go back because they got used to not having it, I think a lot of people will be leery of large crowds for awhile even if they’d otherwise return. There could be a cultural shift in regard to that. You have the border between the US and Canada, antivaxxers, etc. Things that could linger and drag this out longer than it needs to be.

 

[Gurglesons]

No, I’m looking at a billionaire as someone who won’t want to lose money on a sports team. He could fund it the whole time and his finances will be completely fine if he’s suffered at all or hasn’t already bounced back, but I wouldn’t count on him choosing to. Partial gate revenue isn’t going to cut it for the Pens afaik. An improvement isn’t going to send them straight back to their regular spending.

It’s going to be interesting. Never mind people choosing not to go back because they got used to not having it, I think a lot of people will be leery of large crowds for awhile even if they’d otherwise return. There could be a cultural shift in regard to that. You have the border between the US and Canada, antivaxxers, etc. Things that could linger and drag this out longer than it needs to be.

I think you'll see a very different picture than what you are imagining.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I think we might be unpleasantly surprised by the amount of people who simply shrug their shoulders at not only the prospects of attending games in the future but even bothering with convoluted, heavily-monetized and often janky streaming services to "fill the void."

I'm not convinced sports, or at least hockey, will be "deemed essential" in the rather uncertain future, in other words. I dunno how freely flowing the disposable income is going to be in the next year+

It isn't something that had honestly occurred to me or at least wasn't a priority to think about until lately. But man I dunno. And yes I'm a bit pessimistic so hey maybe it's just me being me. There has been progress made in fits and starts growing the game the last few decades but this league isn't exactly... mainstream, ya know?

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I think we might be unpleasantly surprised by the amount of people who simply shrug their shoulders at not only the prospects of attending games in the future but even bothering with convoluted, heavily-monetized and often janky streaming services to "fill the void."

I'm not convinced sports, or at least hockey, will be "deemed essential" in the rather uncertain future, in other words. I dunno how freely flowing the disposable income is going to be in the next year+

It isn't something that had honestly occurred to me or at least wasn't a priority to think about until lately. But man I dunno. And yes I'm a bit pessimistic so hey maybe it's just me being me. There has been progress made in fits and starts growing the game the last few decades but this league isn't exactly... mainstream, ya know?

No doubt that is true, but it does not take a large percentage to be wary, give up on coming, whatever, to make a huge difference. A 20% drop would be huge.