Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread: Where every JR update, gives us all Anxiety.

[DRAGO 18]

I was surprised at how well your offer was received on the trade board. But you're right, it solves alot of problems. It instantly allows them to continue on in their window with the Pietro/Parayko tandem. With 8.5 million in room, they might have to shed a little more to keep Pietro but that gets them much closer.

Honestly, if JR managed to pull that off, without giving up additional sweeteners and futures, I would be bowing down. Faulk is on the books for a long time to come, but with the Seattle expansion and maybe future compliance windows, we could probably move on from him if its a real disaster. But I think Faulk would be a massive success here.

Hell no to Faulk. Might be one of the trades i would turn down on getting rid of JJ. His contract is awful. Doug Armstrong must of got ahold of JR's bottle of "Post cup celebration stupid pills" when he handed that one out.

 

[TimmyD]

Would it be worth it to take a flier on Koivu if he wants to still play in the NHL and not go back home? I haven’t really seen much of him lately, is he still a pretty good player?

 

[molon labe]

Would it be worth it to take a flier on Koivu if he wants to still play in the NHL and not go back home? I haven’t really seen much of him lately, is he still a pretty good player?

Slow for what we think the Pens should play at - but would fit in nicely into the bottom 6. Should definitely take a flier.

Nice little clip of him in the shootout. [Skip to 2:45]

 

[Gurglesons]

I like Koivu, but I don't really like the idea of having both him and Blueger in the bottom six. Seems like a slow ass bottom six especially when you throw in Hornqvist and ZAR if he is back.

 

[ownal]

I would trade Horny for Jarnkrok & a pick. Jarnkrok- Koivu - Tanev third line.

 

[molon labe]

I like Koivu, but I don't really like the idea of having both him and Blueger in the bottom six. Seems like a slow ass bottom six especially when you throw in Hornqvist and ZAR if he is back.

No doubt - I would take him assuming he takes ZAR's spot and his money... since there's no reason ZAR should be back.

Wouldn't be my ideal 3C though - more of a Cullen style 4C. Not sure if that's the right usage though. Either way you take the flier.

 

[Gurglesons]

No doubt - I would take him assuming he takes ZAR's spot and his money... since there's no reason ZAR should be back.

Wouldn't be my ideal 3C though - more of a Cullen style 4C. Not sure if that's the right usage though. Either way you take the flier.

I'd just rather invest in an actual solution rather than a hope and a prayer.

Loved Koviu in his prime, but don't really see the reality of what he brings to a contender at this point.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Replacing Letang with Faulk would be like replacing Malkin with Pavelski or something.

Faulk's contract is one of the few contracts in the league worse than JJ in terms of on ice performance and cost / term.

You wouldn't be replacing Letang with Faulk, you'd be replacing Letang with Faulk and a boatload of futures you'd get back for Letang.

 

[Gurglesons]

You wouldn't be replacing Letang with Faulk, you'd be replacing Letang with Faulk and a boatload of futures you'd get back for Letang.

Ah. Forgot about the skill boatload of futures would bring the # 1 RD hole.

 

[SEALBound]

I don't think I can trust any report that says Hornqvist skates well.

Not that I disagree but it's not like Horny is a bad skater. Just like with any other hockey skill, there are different styles. He's not the smooth skating speedster but its not like skating is a liability for him. I think you look at someone like Perry who through injuries, you can clearly see a diminished skating ability. I think that's what they are getting at. We just have the expectation that everyone be Hagelin+Letang now a days...

This team is going to be left with ZERO bite if Hornqvist is dealt. Won't even be worth watching games anymore if we go down a goal or 2 early.

I'm not saying paying 5M for a third line winger is ideal - but man is our Power Play going to suck, our edge going to be duller than a dollar store plastic butterknife, and our chances in the playoffs bleaker than they were yesterday. Idk what we're even going for anymore.

I mean, in the moment, possibly but that doesn't account for who we may get back or who we target with other trades or who we sign in FA. Other moves CAN be made post-Horny trade (if that happens that is). I really want someone that can stand up for a teammate though. I don't think we can discount the importance of having a guy willing to go push someone. We kinda saw the ramifications of that post 2017 when Sid, Geno, and the like were flat out abused with no retaliation. That leads to bringing in guys like Reaves. We don't want that. With that too, I think there are capable players that we could target that would help. Hartman and Greenway as previously discussed, Chiasson from Edmonton, M. Foligno from Minny, etc.

Anyone feeling a trade today. Im feeling a trade today.

We feel its best to let people go on Friday. Statistics show there's less of a change of incident if we wait until Friday.

They have. The 3C role is such a f***ing saga at this point and it goes back for so long.

It's the trouble with being under a cap. Eventually, players that perform are going to want a bigger role and more money. Sometimes you can give that to them, sometimes not. Staal and Bonino both wanted bigger roles but that's the peril of Sid+Geno...lol, you're not Sid or Geno, therefore, 3C is all we can offer. Toughest position to fill IMHO. You need to have enough skill and ability to make the line effective but not skilled enough to warrant a hefty salary and wanting more. Then, like we all do, we get old and you have to find the next gen to fill the role. I mean, Staal and Bones are 32 and Sutter is 31. These aren't the mid-20's guys we lust after (or rather they are no longer the players they were here). You don't see many effect "career 3C" players. It's always going to be a revolving door.

 

[molon labe]

I'd just rather invest in an actual solution rather than a hope and a prayer.

Loved Koviu in his prime, but don't really see the reality of what he brings to a contender at this point.

Like I said - 4C option. Short deal to bring in the vet presence in the bottom 6. No real investment there. Should cost nothing. At 62 years old he'd bring more to the table than ZAR on a good day.

As for the rest of the bottom 6, it's a dead horse discussion that this team needs a 3C. I believe we also need another legitimate scoring threat that can hold their own on the third line when necessary/playoffs...not a hodge podge of maybe's and spare parts down there.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Ah. Forgot about the skill boatload of futures would bring the # 1 RD hole.

No, Marino would be going into the #1 RD hole.

You'd have Marino replacing Letang, Faulk replacing Marino and hopefully the futures you got for Letang adding value for years 2-5 of the remaining years of Crosby and Malkin. You lose next year for sure, but hopefully you'd benefit as early as 2021-2022.

 

[Gurglesons]

No, Marino would be going into the #1 RD hole.

You'd have Marino replacing Letang, Faulk replacing Marino and hopefully the futures you got for Letang adding value for years 2-5 of the remaining years of Crosby and Malkin. You lose next year for sure, but hopefully you'd benefit as early as 2021-2022.

A RD depth of Marino Faulk is arguably the worst in the league. Not to mention Ruhwedel is probably the 3rd RD then.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

It's the trouble with being under a cap. Eventually, players that perform are going to want a bigger role and more money. Sometimes you can give that to them, sometimes not. Staal and Bonino both wanted bigger roles but that's the peril of Sid+Geno...lol, you're not Sid or Geno, therefore, 3C is all we can offer. Toughest position to fill IMHO. You need to have enough skill and ability to make the line effective but not skilled enough to warrant a hefty salary and wanting more. Then, like we all do, we get old and you have to find the next gen to fill the role. I mean, Staal and Bones are 32 and Sutter is 31. These aren't the mid-20's guys we lust after (or rather they are no longer the players they were here). You don't see many effect "career 3C" players. It's always going to be a revolving door.

A revolving door would be fine if they were able to consistently fill the position well. It’s a saga because they struggle to do it so much.

 

[Empoleon8771]

A RD depth of Marino Faulk is arguably the worst in the league. Not to mention Ruhwedel is probably the 3rd RD then.

You would have a lot of cap space to address the 3rd pair RD if you did that, because you wouldn't have JJ anymore. You gain $4 million in cap space assuming you get purely futures back for Letang. You can probably sign Montour or someone like that in free agency, and Marino-Faulk-Montour is certainly not weak on RD.

 

[molon labe]

Not that I disagree but it's not like Horny is a bad skater. Just like with any other hockey skill, there are different styles. He's not the smooth skating speedster but its not like skating is a liability for him. I think you look at someone like Perry who through injuries, you can clearly see a diminished skating ability. I think that's what they are getting at. We just have the expectation that everyone be Hagelin+Letang now a days...



I mean, in the moment, possibly but that doesn't account for who we may get back or who we target with other trades or who we sign in FA. Other moves CAN be made post-Horny trade (if that happens that is). I really want someone that can stand up for a teammate though. I don't think we can discount the importance of having a guy willing to go push someone. We kinda saw the ramifications of that post 2017 when Sid, Geno, and the like were flat out abused with no retaliation. That leads to bringing in guys like Reaves. We don't want that. With that too, I think there are capable players that we could target that would help. Hartman and Greenway as previously discussed, Chiasson from Edmonton, M. Foligno from Minny, etc.



We feel its best to let people go on Friday. Statistics show there's less of a change of incident if we wait until Friday.



It's the trouble with being under a cap. Eventually, players that perform are going to want a bigger role and more money. Sometimes you can give that to them, sometimes not. Staal and Bonino both wanted bigger roles but that's the peril of Sid+Geno...lol, you're not Sid or Geno, therefore, 3C is all we can offer. Toughest position to fill IMHO. You need to have enough skill and ability to make the line effective but not skilled enough to warrant a hefty salary and wanting more. Then, like we all do, we get old and you have to find the next gen to fill the role. I mean, Staal and Bones are 32 and Sutter is 31. These aren't the mid-20's guys we lust after (or rather they are no longer the players they were here). You don't see many effect "career 3C" players. It's always going to be a revolving door.

I've preached a power forward on this team for a few years now - not the least with the Radulov talk that got mixed reviews (which aged well as he's still doing his thing with the Stars). I agree that this team needs someone who will push back -not just a Reaves but a forward with bark and bite. I believe they've needed that for some time quite frankly.

There's no denying that Hornqvist's never-quit attitude has made a huge impact to this team; so it's difficult to accept dumping him as a cap casualty. If/when we get rid of Hornqvist, we lose pretty much all intensity on this team. We'll still have Tanev, but how far does that go? Our top checking players are like Tanev, ZAR, and Johnson - players nobody gives a crap about come playoffs and make even less of an impact to the actual score. Hell, even with 72 here I'd still be targeting a big "mean" forward - though there just aren't many of them out there. The last thing we need is an older Malkin or hot headed Letang having to amp this team up by mixing it up in front of the net or throwing a big hit.

 

[Gurglesons]

You would have a lot of cap space to address the 3rd pair RD if you did that, because you wouldn't have JJ anymore. You gain $4 million in cap space assuming you get purely futures back for Letang. You can probably sign Montour or someone like that in free agency, and Marino-Faulk-Montour is certainly not weak on RD.

But, it is. Faulk is that bad.

Dumo - Marino
Pettersson - Faulk
POJ - Montour

Is literally a bottom ten defense.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Pretty much. I mean, he is one of the stupidest defensemen in the league and only got money because he shoots hard and can do fancy things occasionally. He’s like a worse Shattenkirk.

He also has a full NTC meaning we could lose Petts in expansion.

6.5 for another six years is the type of contract that would absolutely bury this team with the flat cap.

Not sure what Faulk's NTC has to do with the expansion draft. NTCs aren't forced to be protected in the draft. Could still protect Letang, Dumoulin, and Pettersson while leaving Faulk exposed.

 

[pensfan71]

Not sure what Faulk's NTC has to do with the expansion draft. NTCs aren't forced to be protected in the draft. Could still protect Letang, Dumoulin, and Pettersson while leaving Faulk exposed.

Yeah isn't it a NMC that has to be protected?

 

[Pens x]

No one mentions the the fact that Mario is being cheap, and instating an internal cap.

It will be even more difficult to fix all of JR’s mistakes when you consider an internal cap.

 

[SEALBound]

No one mentions the the fact that Mario is being cheap, and instating an internal cap.

It will be even more difficult to fix all of JR’s mistakes when you consider an internal cap.

Except for the fact that JR has refuted that multiple times. But ya know...agenda n' all dat.

He did also say that he wants cap room to accommodate Marino's deal deal next year. Certainly planning around keeping a good young dman would seem smart to the average person willing to look past today.

 

[OswaldBates]

No one mentions the the fact that Mario is being cheap, and instating an internal cap.

It will be even more difficult to fix all of JR’s mistakes when you consider an internal cap.

UUUUUUMMMMMMM don't know how to break this to you Hoss, That is NOT what GMJR said

 

[Pens x]

UUUUUUMMMMMMM don't know how to break this to you Hoss, That is NOT what GMJR said

Let’s see what the return on Murray is. If it’s futures, then I’d be nervous about the internal cap.

 

[Hottubber]

Let’s see what the return on Murray is. If it’s futures, then I’d be nervous about the internal cap.

He could possibly want futures as he stated he wants to have money for FA

 

[Gurglesons]

Let’s see what the return on Murray is. If it’s futures, then I’d be nervous about the internal cap.

There are also ways to hit an internal cap without actually being under the cap. Kapanen is a perfect example of that. He was on a front loaded contract. So the majority of his contract was paid out by Toronto already and in terms of real dollars he is only owed around 4 for the next two years while taking up 3+mil in terms of cap hit.

I think people are scared that we "won't spend to the cap", when reality is we may just make different types of moves over the next couple years then we may have because of the financial landscape. And I'm sure that will include how any long term contracts are structured.