Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread: Where every JR update, gives us all Anxiety.

[Honour Over Glory]

Damn it mods, I wanted to address that Roland McKeown thing.

@Jacob I think he's an upgrade over Ruhwedel, but over Riikola no, if they use Riikola on the left side like he belongs, then a pair of Riikola-McKeown is what I would be looking at and I'm down with that, it gives Maniscalco some time to develop in the A as well.

The right side is where the Pens need to add especially for the 3rd pair, being as such, that depth chart is just Ruhwedel at the moment, sad af.

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[Speaking Moistly]

Sully's scratched him, what, 3 times? Maybe? One of those times was to get Maatta back in the lineup against the Isles last year, I think, so that's not even a "Scratch JJ because he sucks" thing as much as it is a "We have a $4 million AAV defenseman sitting, and could use a change". I think the other two scratches were some weird illness that wasn't technically deemed an injury, but he wasn't ready to play, if I remember right.

You might be right about the illness thing for one game but I think the other was when they still had Gudbranson and were trying to slot Marino in? I completely forgot that time he was sick. So, yeah... 2 scratches. It’s proof they’ll scratch him but it’s a terribly small percentage. Sullivan also seems to have gotten more stubborn about him if game 4 was anything to go by. That being said, if memory serves, their underlying numbers were better with Maatta over jj in the 2019 playoffs and they still stuck with jj for 3 games on the way to a sweep.

The scratches do at least mean it’s not a total Craig Adams situation where the player was untouchable. Adams would have played with pneumonia and they would have let him.


ETA: yeah, he was scratched for the 6th game of the season on Oct 13th and the illness game was the 28th on Dec 4th. Letang, Dumoulin, Pettersson, Schultz, Gudbranson, and Marino played.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I just want to keep this kind of stuff front and center. I think it will help twofold. Though I don't like the option of having TB as the 3c. Sorry, but faceoffs and driving offense is not TB's game. Defensively? Yes.... Until that cycle of turnovers in their own end starts spinning to go along with the faceoff losses.

Another aspect, too, is.... Whomever comes in to be 3c who can handle faceoffs will slowly drain minutes away from TB. Will he have that same effect on the game getting less minutes? True 4th line minutes. Possibly this helps him without having so much on his plate as the 4c.

Penguins Third Line Center: 4 Free Agent Possibilities

Edit: If there was a place to spend cap it's down the middle.

Haula & Eakin?

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

You might be right about the illness thing for one game but I think the other was when they still had Gudbranson and were trying to slot Marino in? I completely forgot that time he was sick. So, yeah... 2 scratches. It’s proof they’ll scratch him but it’s a terribly small percentage. Sullivan also seems to have gotten more stubborn about him if game 4 was anything to go by. That being said, if memory serves, their underlying numbers were better with Maatta over jj in the 2019 playoffs and they still stuck with jj for 3 games on the way to a sweep.

The scratches do at least mean it’s not a total Craig Adams situation where the player was untouchable. Adams would have played with pneumonia and they would have let him.

I don't know. Scratching a guy twice--arguably once since the Maatta thing was just more of a shuffling of pieces as opposed to benching a miserable player, and the illness preventing him from playing one night--out of the 155 or so games he's been here (including playoffs) pretty much says to me that he's as close to untouchable in terms of actual accountability as it gets.

As long as our current GM and coach are manning the ship, JJ is here to stay and he'll be given essentially a permanent role in the lineup.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I don't know. Scratching a guy twice, arguably once since the Maatta thing was just more of a shuffling of pieces as opposed to benching a miserable player, and the illness preventing him from playing one night--out of the 155 or so games he's been here (including playoffs) pretty much says to me that he's as close to untouchable in terms of actual accountability as it gets.

As long as our current GM and coach are manning the ship, JJ is here to stay and he'll be given essentially a permanent role in the lineup.

There’s at least a teeny tiny chance they’ll play better players over him if they’re there. Not Riikola because f*** him but there’s a chance.

This is miserable. I knew it would be bad once they mentioned signing him and after I saw the contract but it’s worse.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

There’s at least a teeny tiny chance they’ll play better players over him if they’re there. Not Riikola because f*** him but there’s a chance.

This is miserable. I knew it would be bad once they mentioned signing him and after I saw the contract but it’s worse.

Yep. This isn't just a terrible guy in a vacuum. This is a terrible guy getting a permanent spot on a blueline that's been a huge part of our team's struggles since the last Cup, and a GM and coach that incessantly go to bat for the guy and make excuses for his decade-plus career of absolutely dreadful play. It's apparently not just lip service either, his usage is enough to think they believe every single word they say about the guy.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Yep. This isn't just a terrible guy in a vacuum. This is a terrible guy getting a permanent spot on a blueline that's been a huge part of our team's struggles since the last Cup, and a GM and coach that incessantly go to bat for the guy and make excuses for his decade-plus career of absolutely dreadful play. It's apparently not just lip service either, his usage is enough to think they believe every single word they say about the guy.

In a vacuum this team wasn't nearly close to being able to absorb a guy like JJ, either. That's both defensively on the backend and the forwards in front. Yeah, people claim good during the season, but that's also watered down with a lot of bad teams. It's when they get to playing all the good teams in the second season where everything has a spotlight on it.

I really believe they can survive having JJ on the team/3rd pairing with a full fledge four line deap consistently playing forward group. The injuries are always going to throw a hiccup or two into the fold. Teams all have that one or two weaknesses within their roster, but the have to play them to a minimum.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

In a vacuum this team wasn't nearly close to being able to absorb a guy like JJ, either. That's both defensively on the backend and the forwards in front. Yeah, people claim good during the season, but that's also watered down with a lot of bad teams. It's when they get to playing all the good teams in the second season where everything has a spotlight on it.

I really believe they can survive having JJ on the team/3rd pairing with a full fledge four line deap consistently playing forward group. The injuries are always going to throw a hiccup or two into the fold. Teams all have that one or two weaknesses within their roster, but the have to play them to a minimum.

They definitely couldn't afford to take on JJ with the blueline as it was. But I absolutely do not think this team can survive JJ playing nightly. It just can't. He kills whatever line he's out there with, and the only way to stop the bleeding is to neuter a guy like Marino by saddling him with JJ.

We'll never have a full fledged team of four lines deep talent. We don't even have a third line right now. JJ isn't just a weakness, he's a full-on crippling detriment whenever he's on the ice.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Sully & JR have Jack Johnson tattooed over their belly button and JJ has a Sidney Crosby tramp stamp.

 

[Rudy Russo]

I just want to keep this kind of stuff front and center. I think it will help twofold. Though I don't like the option of having TB as the 3c. Sorry, but faceoffs and driving offense is not TB's game. Defensively? Yes.... Until that cycle of turnovers in their own end starts spinning to go along with the faceoff losses.

Another aspect, too, is.... Whomever comes in to be 3c who can handle faceoffs will slowly drain minutes away from TB. Will he have that same effect on the game getting less minutes? True 4th line minutes. Possibly this helps him without having so much on his plate as the 4c.

Penguins Third Line Center: 4 Free Agent Possibilities

Edit: If there was a place to spend cap it's down the middle.

Haula & Eakin?

I've always liked Eakin as a player and I was hoping the pens would be able to trade for him when Vegas selected him in the expansion draft.

 

[dogthateats]

Sully & JR have Jack Johnson tattooed over their belly button and JJ has a Sidney Crosby tramp stamp.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I don't know if Soderberg's going to have a big enough impact on this team with the guys he's likely to play with here and he'll probably cost an arm and a leg to boot. Eakin's a guy who seems definitively like the weaker of the options for 3C. Haula's a guy who is probably going to come cheap because of his injury, but if he can rebound to his level of play in Vegas, or close to it, he could be an absolute steal. But, that's a pretty big gamble for a guy that looks like his best is well behind him thanks to injury.

No options really jump out as the "Hell yeah, go with that" option, sadly. And even if they did, I don't think we'll have the cap space to sign that guy, or the assets needed to trade for him.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I've always liked Eakin as a player and I was hoping the pens would be able to trade for him when Vegas selected him in the expansion draft.

I think he's had a couple of injuries that have sort of rendered him into what he is now, I am not a fan of him or the other options people have bandied about here like Haula (his knees are brutal right now) and Soderberg as well (I don't see him fitting on the Pens either).

I honestly would rather just see Blueger be a 3c. He's been a player that has developed better than most have anticipated and with his usage last season especially, he was adept in the shutdown role but also produced at close to a 3C rate when given better forwards (well ones that didn't have hands of stone like ZAR and inconsistencies like Tanev).

This team has to cut costs and people think that also means cut quality. They've had Bones who was insanely inconsistent and is polarizing mostly because of his hot streaks with Hagelin and Kessel skewing people's recollection of his time here, they've had Sheahan who was a lot like Sutter - Bland af, but he didn't even have Sutter's shot and was less of a black hole offensively but barely, then they've tried Brassard a 2C type that didn't fit...Blueger has the abilities of a lot of those players but with strong hockey IQ. I don't see why he wouldn't be an option, he's also cap friendly and a "product from within" and I for one, like to see more of that promoted rather than constantly looking for options from the outside.

For me, that has always been a sign of zero confidence within your own developmental system.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

If we go with Blueger as the 3C, which I've been warming up to, I think we're going to need to bring in a substantial 3rd line winger to play with him. Guys like McCann, Simon, Hornqvist, Lafferty, Tanev--those aren't guys who are gonna make a good, solid 3rd line. Things are made a lot easier if Poulin comes into camp/pre-season and has a Marino-like showing, where he's so far and away above his competition that the team has no choice but to give him the spot. That's probably not going to happen, but if it did, we'd be all that much better for it.

Hell, I'd run a Poulin-Blueger-Kapanen 3rd line and be happy with that, but that opens a spot up on Sid's RW again. I sorta see Kap ending up on the 3rd line sooner than later anyway because of how particularly difficult is it to find Sid wingers, but y'know.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I really hope the next deals are...

• Moving JJ with the least damage possible to future draft picks and current prospects with a shot at making it.
• McCann is finally moved, he wasn't good enough as a 3C and lacked what you'd want out of a top 6 LW as well, consistency being an issue - I wanted him on the Pens for a while, just doesn't seem to be fitting imo. But I do wonder how he would look on a line like - McCann-Blueger-Hornqvist
• Murray is finally moved.
• The team looks for a solid 4c, I wish they kept Evan Rodrigues for that spot, but whatever.
• Move Simon. Unless people here think Simon-Blueger-Hornqvist can work.

The rest would be just support pieces to make what we have, work and work well. We'll have to pray that Reirden and Vellucci can make Sullivan learn how to evolve his system and open up to more with his usage of players.

I like @Jacob 's idea of getting McKeown, this team could use a solid RD that has an edge and is young, keeping Ruhwedel as the 7th D is whatever.
I also would like the team to look at a AHL/NHL veteran goalie that can push DeSmith for competition. Then of course, maybe even a 3rd line LW option as well as 4C.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

If we go with Blueger as the 3C, which I've been warming up to, I think we're going to need to bring in a substantial 3rd line winger to play with him. Guys like McCann, Simon, Hornqvist, Lafferty, Tanev--those aren't guys who are gonna make a good, solid 3rd line. Things are made a lot easier if Poulin comes into camp/pre-season and has a Marino-like showing, where he's so far and away above his competition that the team has no choice but to give him the spot. That's probably not going to happen, but if it did, we'd be all that much better for it.

Hell, I'd run a Poulin-Blueger-Kapanen 3rd line and be happy with that, but that opens a spot up on Sid's RW again. I sorta see Kap ending up on the 3rd line sooner than later anyway because of how particularly difficult is it to find Sid wingers, but y'know.

Hornqvist is fine as Blueger's RW. It's the LW spot. I liked what I saw with Zucker-Blueger, but we all know that won't happen. Hell, even if they kept Sheary and signed him to a friendly deal, I would be curious about a Sheary-Blueger-Hornqvist line. Blueger has the playmaking and IQ to make two shoot friendly players work, but one should at least be capable of carrying the puck up the ice, is that Simon? Sheary? Do they have to go outside again?

 

[mpp9]

Little late to reply to the Eklund talk, lol.

I'd be down with paying Pietrangelo a bit more than Letang and moving Letang.

Pietrangelo is a better PP QB, less wear and tear on him and plays a less erratic style. If the organization believes Marino is the real deal and will continue feeding him difficult minutes, it could work. Especially if you can bring in a cheap impact player in return for Letang.

 

[ZorkEnchanter]

McCann is literally the opposite of what most of you proclaim...

The Great Debate: Is Jared McCann a Center, Winger, or Trade Bait?

I really hope the two assistant coaches can settle our lines and start finding the correct line combos, etc.

We literally nosedived when Crosby came back and I don't think that's just on the players...

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Hornqvist is fine as Blueger's RW. It's the LW spot. I liked what I saw with Zucker-Blueger, but we all know that won't happen. Hell, even if they kept Sheary and signed him to a friendly deal, I would be curious about a Sheary-Blueger-Hornqvist line. Blueger has the playmaking and IQ to make two shoot friendly players work, but one should at least be capable of carrying the puck up the ice, is that Simon? Sheary? Do they have to go outside again?

Hornqvist is a guy who makes room and creates distractions for his linemates. I don't think he's much use to a third line with guys like Blueger and Sheary, tbh. That's another reason I think he should be heavily shopped, because some team will pay to land that guy in a "put us over the top" move. You can't move down a guy like Zucker or Rust because that creates too big a hole on Sid or Geno's wing. Guys like Simon and Sheary are... Less than ideal, and more of the same crap that's failed to do anything of value for the last several years.

I don't think the options exist in-house, tbh. We've got way too many guys who don't do anything particularly well, and don't give a line a definitive sense of direction or purpose. If we move Blueger up, it saves us the trouble of finding a 3C when most options don't look too enticing to begin with, but we'd still have to add a significant winger to play on that 3rd line, and we'd need to find a good 4C for the vacancy Blueger leaves behind.

I don't think there's a simple, easy way to solve the mess we've created for ourselves. And that just refers to the issue on the 3rd line, it doesn't begin to touch on the mess that is our blueline, and the complete lack of offensive depth beyond Letang there.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Little late to reply to the Eklund talk, lol.

I'd be down with paying Pietrangelo a bit more than Letang and moving Letang.

Pietrangelo is a better PP QB, less wear and tear on him and plays a less erratic style. If the organization believes Marino is the real deal and will continue feeding him difficult minutes, it could work. Especially if you can bring in a cheap impact player in return for Letang.

This is something I've been interested in as well. Pietrangelo is probably going to end up costing $9 million or more, which hurts to take on, but he's an upgrade over Letang in pretty much every facet of the game, and you'd have to think Letang could bring back something pretty substantial in a trade. But it all depends on how much we could land Pietrangelo for, and what teams would be willing to part with for Letang.

Still doesn't provide us the depth on the blueline we lack, though, which is the real problem. Letang's not near the top of our worries when it comes to blueliners. We've got the worst player in the league in Jack Johnson killing the effectiveness of whoever he's on the ice with, and a GM/coach that adore the guy so he's going to play nightly--forget trading him. We've got no offensive punch beyond Letang. Even Marino, who is not terrible in that regard, is way more of an all-around guy than a dude who is gonna produce.

 

[Gurglesons]

McCann is literally the opposite of what most of you proclaim...

The Great Debate: Is Jared McCann a Center, Winger, or Trade Bait?

I really hope the two assistant coaches can settle our lines and start finding the correct line combos, etc.

We literally nosedived when Crosby came back and I don't think that's just on the players...

What do most of us proclaim McCann is?

 

[BrookswasHere44]

Little late to reply to the Eklund talk, lol.

I'd be down with paying Pietrangelo a bit more than Letang and moving Letang.

Pietrangelo is a better PP QB, less wear and tear on him and plays a less erratic style. If the organization believes Marino is the real deal and will continue feeding him difficult minutes, it could work. Especially if you can bring in a cheap impact player in return for Letang.

Where can I find this Eklund talk? I'm bored

 

[Andy99]

If no more forwards are moved and McCann is re-signed to play 3C, I would seriously consider rolling..

Jake-Sid-Rust
Zucker-G-Horny
Simon-McCann-Kapanen
Poulin/ZAR etc-Blueger-Tanev

McCann or even Blueger or whomever we get to play 3C on the cheap is going to need a lot more help to make that third line offensively capable...I think Simon can help carry the puck and make passes on that line, he has the offensive IQ...and Kapanen at least has some hands and can keep up...that would be a lot more help for McCann...I’d have preferred Kahun over Simon but that ship sailed

 

[Honour Over Glory]

McCann is literally the opposite of what most of you proclaim...

The Great Debate: Is Jared McCann a Center, Winger, or Trade Bait?

I really hope the two assistant coaches can settle our lines and start finding the correct line combos, etc.

We literally nosedived when Crosby came back and I don't think that's just on the players...

So that article, by some tosser named "G-Off"...

Basically reiterates my issue with the usage of McCann, he's often bounced as LW or C all over the place and has never had a chance to settle and has for the most part, ruined his development/progression on the Penguins because the coaching staff couldn't utilize other players in those other spots to keep him where he should have been, to develop, which was either LW or C (answer, definitely at C and not LW).

So they f***ed a young player over because of their indecision and now we're here, where most want him traded and some are still curious and me, being one that was an advocate to get him in the first place, now wants to see him gone because I can't trust Sullivan not dicking him all over the line-up again.

There's no conversation for me where Blueger isn't that 3c, which leaves McCann moved to wing permanently or if he wants to be C, off to another team. McCann isn't good enough as winger to keep there and him at 3c is still an experiment because Sullivan didn't keep him there 100% like he should have.

 

[DRAGO 18]

Little late to reply to the Eklund talk, lol.

I'd be down with paying Pietrangelo a bit more than Letang and moving Letang.

Pietrangelo is a better PP QB, less wear and tear on him and plays a less erratic style. If the organization believes Marino is the real deal and will continue feeding him difficult minutes, it could work. Especially if you can bring in a cheap impact player in return for Letang.

This has been interesting to hear the past few days, barring in that you believe Eklund.

Most of the Pietrangelo talk around here state that "Pietrangelo isnt as good as Letang" and they point to the corsi numbers, fancy numbers etc. But what if Pietrangelo is the more consistent player and less spastic as Letang is? He also had 16 goals and 36 helpers last year and isnt tbe offensive blackhole others seem to make him out to be.

Obviously they would have to secure the player first before they would do anything with Letang but it's an interesting potential scenario. JR has already freed up the additional cap space in the Bjugstad trade it would take to land him with moving Letangs contract off the books.