Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread - The no fake rumors edition

[Riptide]

Where on the walls was it written exactly? The wall in his dressing booth where he is guaranteed to see it or maybe in the rest room?Curious to where exactly is the most efficient and effective wall to write on when people say 'the writing is on the wall'. I'm a curious fella.

Ask again exactly where it is when Rust isn't on this roster 12 months from now.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Yeah, it isn’t a weird deal at all and further proof that Tanev deal blows considering they basically bought 6 UFA years.

Pretty big difference between re-signing a homegrown RFA and compelling a UFA to sign with your team.

A lot of similarities between Tanev and Sissons, actually. Less than 2 years apart in age, regular PKers, high compete level, and both scored around 30 points despite heavy DZ deployment and bottom 6 linemates.

Sissons is a center and used even more regularly in the d-zone, but their other positives are comparable.

 

[Gurglesons]

Pretty big difference between re-signing a homegrown RFA and compelling a UFA to sign with your team.

A lot of similarities between Tanev and Sissons, actually. Less than 2 years apart in age, regular PKers, high compete level, and both scored around 30 points despite heavy DZ deployment and bottom 6 linemates.

Sissons is a center and used even more regularly in the d-zone, but their other positives are comparable.

And is making nearly 750k less a year. And there isn’t much difference when you are buying up UFA years. And as you said he is a center.

 

[K Fleur]

It should be pretty easy to understand why people are so high on McCann. Tanev I think is a combination of wanting to be optimistic and some pushback(lol) against the negative reaction to his contract.

 

[Shady Machine]

Sissons signs for 7 years $20 million. That seems crazy cheap to me

Wow another long term, low cap signing from Nashville. Killer contract.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

And most of the forwards who've been on the team in the last 15 months have paid the price for that. By my reckoning, only 7 of the team's current forwards were on the team 15 months ago; the team has traded 8 in that period.

I don't see any particular reason that Bryan Rust should continue to escape that fate if he can't find a bit more consistency.


.

I mean I guess at least MANAGEMENT is consistent in their application of shipping those players out. So yay?

But trading players who are inconsistent at this salary level seems unproductive and selling your assets low. That's like buying a collie and being mad that they shed a lot. You knew what you were "buying" .

And when they signed Sheary, then Rust, then trading for Reaves, then Olek and then JJ. I could go on like this.
Why is Management so surprised that players end up who everyone knows they are?

Next we'll hear the reason we traded ZAR was he didn't fit the mold of a fast/skilled player. Well duh
Feels like JR is as fickle as a middle school girls' love interest when it comes to players...it shifts by the week

 

[Gurglesons]

It should be pretty easy to understand why people are so high on McCann. Tanev I think is a combination of wanting to be optimistic and some pushback(lol) against the negative reaction to his contract.

McCann has 3 5v5 goals with us through his 30ish games here. He’s pacing at his career goal totals at 5v5. Which are around 10 goals.

 

[Riptide]

I could not possibly disagree with that more. If we're LUCKY Kahun can maybe be a Rust-lite (I have my doubts) and Bjorkqvist will be able to do 60% of what Rust can by next year. Other than that you're either expecting way too much from our prospects or severely underrating Rust. Or both.

He's not talking of Bjorkqvist, but Kahun and McCann. Both are skilled fast young players who are sound defensively with some offensive upside. And the best part is they don't cost 3.5m.

As for why I'd take Tanev over Rust, that's easy. He's better in most area's other than offense. Defense, physicality, tenacity go to Tanev. Rust is a little faster and slightly better offensively... but not nearly better enough given who he's played with to make much of a difference. And we have offensive players. We have no one else like Tanev.

Exactly. Rust is an old toy that the minority are getting bored with around here. Tanev is the new fun toy. We will play with him until that gets boring, too.

Rust has playoff pedigree and has as many goals as Tanev does points in their respected career. We know what we get with Rusty. Tanev... Tanev could be anything. He could even be Rust!

Not even close. If Rust was playing like he was 3-4 years ago, this wouldn't even be a discussion. Sadly even Rust of the past season isn't even the Rust you're speaking of. I don't care what he did in 2016 and 2017 cup runs. I care what he did in the last season or two.

The difference is I'm not emotionally attached to Rust due to his playoff heroics from the cup runs and am just looking at what he provided us recently... and what he's provided recently is extremely replaceable. There's a reason why we were talking about moving on from him in mid June when we acquired Kahun.

I beg to differ on half of that. Rust has shown a huge variance in his performance over the past 24 months. What Rust are we getting next season? The one that people want to trade everytime he's on Crosby's line, or the one who lit up stuff with him? Are we getting the Rust who comes up big in the playoffs, or the one who managed 3 points in 16 playoff games?

People aren't souring on Rust because he's an old toy. They're souring on him because it's very easy to see him not being as good as he was, and wondering whether that's a blip or the new reality.

Exactly. But some here are too attached to the cups and what Rust did there to see what he's actually providing today.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

And is making nearly 750k less a year. And there isn’t much difference when you are buying up UFA years. And as you said he is a center.

Yep. That's why Sissons is a bargain and Tanev is an overpay.

But like I said, re-signing a homegrown RFA and trying to convince a UFA to sign with your team are 2 different things. Leverage, comfort level, etc. all play into it.

As players though, they have a lot of similar things going for them.

 

[Shady Machine]

McCann has 3 5v5 goals with us through his 30ish games here. He’s pacing at his career goal totals at 5v5. Which are around 10 goals.

With McCann it's all about potential. The guy played in the NHL as a teenager and has increased his point totals each year (even if pace hasn't jumped a ton, actual production has). People are figuring there is more there, which I think is reasonable but some projections are putting too high a % of it happening IMO.

The assumption that Tanev is going to increase off of a career year but Rust at the same freaking age is on the decline is just bizarre as hell to me.

I get Rust was inconsistent last year, but the dude still put up 16 ES goals and 18 total plus 35 points. Imagine what happens if he has a "bounce back" year?

If I was a betting man, I'd say Tanev comes back down to earth a bit and puts up 25 points and Rust hits 40.

 

[Shady Machine]

Yep. That's why Sissons is a bargain and Tanev is an overpay.

But like I said, re-signing a homegrown RFA and trying to convince a UFA to sign with your team are 2 different things. Leverage, comfort level, etc. all play into it.

As players though, they have a lot of similar things going for them.

Right but the question always has been whether JR should have been the one paying out the ass for Tanev. I say no, but time will tell.

 

[K Fleur]

McCann has 3 5v5 goals with us through his 30ish games here. He’s pacing at his career goal totals at 5v5. Which are around 10 goals.

When you limit the evaluation of a player down to one single statistic the only response you deserve is: So?

How many 5v5 goals McCann scores has little to do with why people are excited about him.

 

[Riptide]

Sissons signs for 7 years $20 million. That seems crazy cheap to me

2.85m. He's looking for the guaranteed deal vs trying to hit something in FA. He has a career high 30pts. Odds are he could get 3m+ fairly easily in FA... but it would be a shorter deal. This is a sure thing.

Similar...ish to Tanev deal. Maybe it's a new trend or something

LMAO I just saw Tanev got modified NTC

He can block 3 teams. I wouldn't get to excited about it.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

McCann has 3 5v5 goals with us through his 30ish games here. He’s pacing at his career goal totals at 5v5. Which are around 10 goals.

That's being pretty selective. He scored 3 SHG goals too, which is more impressive than 5v5 goals by most people's standards.

I won't stand idly by while someone downplays the impact of anyone scoring 4 ENGs for us either. We're the Penguins, dammit!

 

[Gurglesons]

When you limit the evaluation of a player down to one single statistic the only response you deserve is: So?

5v5 goals has little to do with why people are excited about McCann.

Multiple people have said they are expecting close to 20 goals from him next year. So he’d be playing top six minutes. Isn’t this the criticism people are literally using on Rust which is what my argument was about in reaction to McCann?

 

[Beauner]

He's not talking of Bjorkqvist, but Kahun and McCann. Both are skilled fast young players who are sound defensively with some offensive upside. And the best part is they don't cost 3.5m.

As for why I'd take Tanev over Rust, that's easy. He's better in most area's other than offense. Defense, physicality, tenacity go to Tanev. Rust is a little faster and slightly better offensively... but not nearly better enough given who he's played with to make much of a difference. And we have offensive players. We have no one else like Tanev.


Not even close. If Rust was playing like he was 3-4 years ago, this wouldn't even be a discussion. Sadly even Rust of the past season isn't even the Rust you're speaking of. I don't care what he did in 2016 and 2017 cup runs. I care what he did in the last season or two.

The difference is I'm not emotionally attached to Rust due to his playoff heroics from the cup runs and am just looking at what he provided us recently... and what he's provided recently is extremely replaceable. There's a reason why we were talking about moving on from him in mid June when we acquired Kahun.



Exactly. But some here are too attached to the cups and what Rust did there to see what he's actually providing today.

First of all, Kahun and McCann have proven virtually nothing in the grand scheme of things. As of this moment Rust is the 4th best winger on the team behind Jake, Chucky and Hornqvist. And that's not emotional attachment, that's facts. If we're trading him because he the easiest to move and we need to get under the cap, fine. But trading him because f***ing Kahun and McCann can "take his spot" just does not compute. I'm not sure what Bryan Rust you were watching but outside of October/Novermber he was the same player he always was.

 

[Gurglesons]

That's being pretty selective. He scored 3 SHG goals too, which is more impressive than 5v5 goals by most people's standards.

I won't stand idly by while someone downplays the impact of anyone scoring 4 ENGs for us either. We're the Penguins, dammit!

I think it’s more about the fact he saw an uptick in SH and EN that led to a high goal total. The only point I’m making.

I think he could hit 20 given certain usage. I just think it’s funny people talk poetically about McCann when he’s essentially a Rust that can play center who is cheap for basically next year.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Right but the question always has been whether JR should have been the one paying out the ass for Tanev. I say no, but time will tell.

It was a gamble, but some people are putting it in the same category as JJ which isn't arguing in earnest IMO.

There's a big difference between overpaying a useful player by a mil per and overpaying a terrible player by a few mil per.

 

[K Fleur]

Rust was god f***ing awful the first 30ish games of the season, had an incredible middle part of they year, and started to fall back to awful to end the season.

He had a very inconsistent season, It wasn’t just a 2 month slump.

 

[Riptide]

Yeah, but I'd rather lose Gud than Rust or Bjugstad. Gud is easily replaceable, toughness aside.

Then he's not all that "easily" replaceable is he? And besides... we have a ton more depth up front. As it stands Reese is our 13F. AJ is waiting in the wings as is Bjorkqvist. We have options up front. In fact we have a lot of options up front. The only reason people are pining for Rust is because of what he did 3+ years ago.

 

[Riptide]

Wow another long term, low cap signing from Nashville. Killer contract.

And is making nearly 750k less a year. And there isn’t much difference when you are buying up UFA years. And as you said he is a center.

Where's the hate for signing a bottom 6 player to 7 years? Because that was a lot of the bitching just 2 weeks ago.

 

[Beauner]

Then he's not all that "easily" replaceable is he? And besides... we have a ton more depth up front. As it stands Reese is our 13F. AJ is waiting in the wings as is Bjorkqvist. We have options up front. In fact we have a lot of options up front. The only reason people are pining for Rust is because of what he did 3+ years ago.

Stop saying this. This is not it at all. He's literally one of the 4 or 5 best wingers on the team and any statement saying "player x can replace him/his production" is pure speculation until it actually happens.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

McCann is playing an easier position than he has in the past with much better line mates and deployment. Given his talent not crazy to hope for offensive improvement.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I think it’s more about the fact he saw an uptick in SH and EN that led to a high goal total. The only point I’m making.

I think he could hit 20 given certain usage. I just think it’s funny people talk poetically about McCann when he’s essentially a Rust that can play center who is cheap for basically next year.

We have to take his goal totals with a grain of salt, I agree. Hitting 20 would require him being a regular in the top 6.

Should be noted that Rust has never hit 20 goals here, though.

 

[K Fleur]

I want to be positive with Gudbranson but I just think it’s way more likely that he is the player he was for the first 430 games of his career and not the one of his last 20.

Plus he’s still overpaid even if he stays the player of his last 20 games.