Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread - The no fake rumors edition

[Riptide]

I'm not getting excited haha. I don't exactly have a huge problem with the player or the contract, but capfriendly says he submits 10 team no trade. What do you mean he can block 3 teams?

Pretty sure the first and only time I've looked at it (right after the signing) it said a 3 team no trade list. I remember looking at it and laughing going yeah okay, whatever.

 

[Gurglesons]

Guentzel makes the most of what he gets. You could not ask more from a player at ES.

And at his pay rate Rust does everything Hagelin did but cheaper.

 

[Shady Machine]

Given all the *****ing that's done when Rust does play there, I somehow doubt that that is the reason (that he's good enough and other's aren't).

First off, people bitch about nearly everything around here. You should know that by now

Secondly, compared to his competition on the Pens, I think it's fair to say at this point. Hell, even Horny, who is a longtime top 6 winger bounces around. The reality is the Pens have a bunch of complimentary top 9 wingers and only 1, hopefully 2 with Gally, primary top 6 wingers. The rest will by cycled around, but of the rest, Horny and Rust are the most proven, highest quality IMO, and should be given the longest rope.

 

[Gurglesons]

And yet year over year he's still consistently seeing ~65% of his TOI with a superstar center - especially in the past 2 seasons.

18/19: 65.87% of his 5v5 TOI was with Crosby or Malkin.
17/18: 69.6% of his 5v5 TOI was with Crosby or Malkin.
16/17: 55.7% of his 5v5 TOI was with Crosby or Malkin.

Interesting how his best statistical season came from playing most consistently in the top six in 17-18. Almost exactly like the point I’m making..

 

[Shady Machine]

Not sure what benefit is being referred to here.

If we're talking about who's disposable, Rust is older, makes a lot more money, and is less durable. If we're talking about a top 6 role, McCann was more productive than Rust and looked better with Sid in a limited sample size.

The benefit is projecting McCann's short sample size and assuming he's going to be better than Rust in a role that Rust has been better at. How are you defining "Looked better with Sid"?

As for expendable, Rust is only expendable because of his cap hit. I just believe it's a mistake to move him until we know what these other guys are.

 

[Gurglesons]

The benefit is projecting McCann's short sample size and assuming he's going to be better than Rust in a role that Rust has been better at. How are you defining "Looked better with Sid"?

As for expendable, Rust is only expendable because of his cap hit. I just believe it's a mistake to move him until we know what these other guys are.

“Looked better” had 3 ES Goals with Sid over 14 games.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

And at his pay rate Rust does everything Hagelin did but cheaper.

Okay...

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

“Looked better” had 3 ES Goals with Sid over 14 games.

Yep, that is one of the stats alright.

 

[Peat]

Not sure what benefit is being referred to here.

If we're talking about who's disposable, Rust is older, makes a lot more money, and is less durable. If we're talking about a top 6 role, McCann was more productive than Rust and looked better with Sid in a limited sample size.

Rust was more productive than McCann at 5v5. McCann needs to take a step forwards there to maintain his production assuming his EN/PK numbers don't stay the same.

Tbh, based solely on last season's offensive numbers, Rust and McCann would be two of the last wingers I'd be looking to put in the top 6 - only Tanev would come below.

Since fake rumors are not allowed, does anyone have any non-fake rumors about the Pettersson and Johnson situation?

Penguins are trying to keep Pettersson, right? But we don't have any cap space to sign him. Johnson is likely to be moved/dumped, but at what cost? Draft picks or maybe some other player, like Rust?

Question: If Johnson is moved or dumped, do we have good enough defense or do we need to sign more D players?

I think our offense is good enough to start the season.

Pens will keep Pettersson. Just the shape of the contract that remains to be determined.

The last reliable rumour on the Pens looking to trade Johnson was Yohe who said they'd give Riikola his spot if he went, so I assume they wouldn't sign any more D players right away but who knows?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

The benefit is projecting McCann's short sample size and assuming he's going to be better than Rust in a role that Rust has been better at. How are you defining "Looked better with Sid"?

As for expendable, Rust is only expendable because of his cap hit. I just believe it's a mistake to move him until we know what these other guys are.

The benefit is that, yeah, I would use McCann in that role over Rust to start the year if given the option. I don't see how that's unreasonable.

 

[K Fleur]

Of course not, but people shouldn't be surprised when that impacts his production. I think it's fine to say that Rust, McCann, Kahun, and Simon can battle it out for top 6 ice time, but at this point in time, Rust is the best of the 4 and is the one I'd trust all things considered.

Rust had an inconsistent season last year no doubt, but when that inconsistent season is 18 goals and 35 points, imagine what a consistent season for him would look like. That's the bizarre part for me. People are ****ting on his season when honestly it's pretty good, at least from production standards. He needs to up his intensity night in and night out to still have the same effect on the game, but I think he knows that and deserves another shot here to show that.

I don’t want Rust gone either I want him to be here and be playing to the best of his abilities because if he is this is a better team. At the same time I don’t think he’s the caliber of player that deserves some of the excuses and patience being shown to him. His inconsistent season last year is on him, nobody else.

 

[Gurglesons]

Okay...

So Hagelin is a prodigal son around here and Rust has suddenly become “too expensive to afford” despite us paying 7 mil to our 5 and 6 D.

 

[Shady Machine]

Rust was more productive than McCann at 5v5. McCann needs to take a step forwards there to maintain his production assuming his EN/PK numbers don't stay the same.

Tbh, based solely on last season's numbers, Rust and McCann would be two of the last wingers I'd be looking to put in the top 6 - only Tanev would come below.

And who would be above them? Kahun scored 35 ES points in 82 games (.427 per 82) and Rust put up 31 ES points in 72 games (.431 per 82). That's near identical and we know who Rust is. Both should get looks but other than shiny toy syndrome, not sure why Rust is seen in a different light. What am I missing?

 

[Shady Machine]

The benefit is that, yeah, I would use McCann in that role over Rust to start the year if given the option. I don't see how that's unreasonable.

It's not unreasonable. I just think there is too much criticism of Rust and I feel the need to defend his honor for some reason. The annual off season tradition of @pixiesfanyo and Shady Machine against the world thing I guess.

 

[Gurglesons]

The benefit is that, yeah, I would use McCann in that role over Rust to start the year if given the option. I don't see how that's unreasonable.

I think the top six should obviously be:

Jake - Sid - Kahun
Galchenyuk - Malkin - Rust

 

[Riptide]

Interesting how his best statistical season came from playing most consistently in the top six in 17-18. Almost exactly like the point I’m making..

That people who spend significant time with star players see a boost to their point totals that they wouldn't produce elsewhere in the lineup? Which is fine... until people also start using said production as to why player A is better than player B. Especially when said production is only marginally different.

 

[Peat]

And who would be above them? Kahun scored 35 ES points in 82 games (.427 per 82) and Rust put up 31 ES points in 72 games (.431 per 82). That's near identical and we know who Rust is. Both should get looks but other than shiny toy syndrome, not sure why Rust is seen in a different light. What am I missing?

Minutes. Rust got more minutes and had a lower p/60.

Also, GF and xGF - Kahun did better there on relative stats compared to Rust, while Crosby's lowest GF/60 on ice was with Rust (well, lowest at ES, probably 2nd lowest at 5v5 with McCann lowest).

As such, going by the stats, I'd expect Rust and McCann to result in less goals for and probably less impressive results in the top 6 than pretty much everyone else, although it's a shaky one. And doesn't take into account the defensive side of it much.

Finally - I guess I've just soured on Rust being up there on the eye test. When his tunnel vision is off its great, but elsewise, he's simply not doing enough to help his C in the offensive zone. McCann is similar. Good things still happen but better things are possible with guys who offer better things with the puck on their stick - if Rust isn't getting to streak away down the ice, he's a long way from the best offensive player on this roster imo.

 

[Shady Machine]

That people who spend significant time with star players see a boost to their point totals that they wouldn't produce elsewhere in the lineup? Which is fine... until people also start using said production as to why player A is better than player B. Especially when said production is only marginally different.

The opposite is also true though. Assuming player B is going to be able to match or beat player A's production if they just had more time with star player. That's just not necessarily the case. Some blip can be expected, but if you don't possess a skillset that can take advantage of that time, see Neal and his release, production is not likely to materially increase.

 

[Gurglesons]

That people who spend significant time with star players see a boost to their point totals that they wouldn't produce elsewhere in the lineup? Which is fine... until people also start using said production as to why player A is better than player B. Especially when said production is only marginally different.

Rust when play consistently on the top two lines is prorating as a 20-20 guy with solid defensive chops. Why would you not want that in the top six?

 

[Beauner]

Even if Rust isn't an ideal fit in the top 6, he's still a great bottom 6er who can play either wing and still hold his own in the top 6 if injury/play deems it necessary.

People are just trying to find excuses as to why or how he doesn't fit anymore.

 

[Riptide]

Rust when play consistently on the top two lines is prorating as a 20-20 guy with solid defensive chops. Why would you not want that in the top six?

Because our centers are better without him there?

 

[Gurglesons]

Because our centers are better without him there?

Because of minimal differences in P/60. And they are better defensively from what I remember when I looked at the numbers.

 

[Riptide]

Because of minimal differences in P/60. And they are better defensively from what I remember when I looked at the numbers.

Crosby is better in every single stat with the sole exception of HDGF. CF, FF, SF, GF, xGF, SCF, SCGF & HDCF. It's more than just P/60.

 

[Gurglesons]

Crosby is better in every single stat with the sole exception of HDGF. CF, FF, SF, GF, xGF, SCF, SCGF & HDCF. It's more than just P/60.

In the three year sample size the majority of these numbers are minimal. 1-2% better.

 

[BHD]