Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread: Sugar "KANE" Turns Into 'Rymes with' M, M, M...My Sharona

[Richard]

Letang and pens talking 5 year 6.5M per contract

Malkin 2 years 8M

I don't disagree with the pens choice because, hey, who else are you gonna spend your money on?

Looking for a Winger to bump zuccher to a third line role full time. Could trade 1st but highly doubtful. I know pens have looked at Jordan Eberle and Paul Byron

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

In Matheson's last 52 games (dating back to 3-24-2021), here is what his stat line looks like:

-52 games, 6 goals and 24 points and a +10 (pace of 9 goals and 38 points per 82 games)
-In terms of on-ice results at 5v5, he has a 55.79% CF%, 57.76% HDCF%, 57.50% GF% and 54.83% xGF%. Every one of those is best or 2nd best among Penguins defensemen over that sample size.
-In terms of production at 5v5, he has a 0.43 goals/60 and a 1.35 points/60. That's the best in terms of goals and 2nd best in terms of points, only behind Letang

So why exactly do the Penguins have to dump him? Matheson is objectively playing up to his salary this year. Even if you only want to look at this year, his results are still really damn good:

-32 games, 3 goals and 12 points and a +2 (pace of 8 goals and 31 points per 82 games)
-In terms of on-ice results at 5v5, he has a 57.42% CF%, 60.00% HDCF%, 55.81% GF% and 57.44% xGF%. All of those are best or 2nd best on the Penguins.
-In terms of production at 5v5, he has a 0.34 goals/60 and a 1.25 points/60. That is effectively the same as Letang.

I don't understand the Math hate on the board. Is it was because who he was traded for? Because I'm Horny's #1 fan and I understood it.

Math is tailor made for Sully's system...is it any wonder he's dramatically better here vs Fla? If he played under a different coach/system that didn't give him the green light, he'd not be worth his salary.

People looking to chip away at the defense really need to look elsewhere. Considering the salaries, I'd say they are all around market value for what they bring.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

The thought behind letting #71 walk for Carter is as follows:

1. You'll be able to sign an aging player at lower rate of term and salary. It makes the possibility of a buyout much easier to swallow.

2. People look at #71's value like its the piece of cake with the most icing on it but what about the rest of the cake? Malkin has been injury prone and inconsistent. He had maybe 15 good games last year including playoffs (and I think that's a stretch more like 12). Don't focus on that, focus on the other 2/3 of the cake where you're getting no production from injury or a player who freelances when he does play.

3. Carter can kill penalties. Malkin doesn't. Carter can win faceoffs. Malkin struggles. Carter is much more versatile and Malkin is a luxury at this point.

4. Opens the door for Zahorna or a prospect to make the lineup.

5. You save 2-3 million cap.

6. Finally and this is most important...you invest in defense. Give Letang money. Its proven we can win without #71. We keep a defense core that has been great in tact.

I cant get behind this at all......Injuries are unpredictable, and the shot to Geno's knee wasn't his fault.

Again when on he is one of the best players in the game. Teams would kill to have him, you don't let him walk to save Carter or your worst take open up the door for Zahorna or a prospect.

Keep in mind Geno was a big reason we won cups.....he took over series himself. Yes it was a few years back but you still see the potential and fire there. He went off last year and than got hurt (freak injury). Comes back his 1st game and makes a huge impact not even in game shape.

You can fill your roster with PK specialists and or FO guys. I don't even think signing Carter would be a hindrance in getting Geno/Letang signed. Carter knows our cap situation and he still wants to play here he will make it work

 

[HandshakeLine]

I don't understand the Math hate on the board. Is it was because who he was traded for? Because I'm Horny's #1 fan and I understood it.

Math is tailor made for Sully's system...is it any wonder he's dramatically better here vs Fla? If he played under a different coach/system that didn't give him the green light, he'd not be worth his salary.

People looking to chip away at the defense really need to look elsewhere. Considering the salaries, I'd say they are all around market value for what they bring.

It's probably partly because we traded the Swedish Muscle Daddy for him, but also probably because people just get so weird about "bad contracts" and having only "good contracts" like that's the actual point of the game instead of putting the puck in the net.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

It's probably partly because we traded the Swedish Muscle Daddy for him, but also probably because people just get so weird about "bad contracts" and having only "good contracts" like that's the actual point of the game instead of putting the puck in the net.

In about a year Math's contract will look even more reasonable to boot.

I get the idea of not wanting bad contracts- that should be the goal of any GM. But if you have 1 or 2, you'll be fine. The Pens arguably have ZERO bad contracts on this roster right now. The last one that had was Jack Johnson (maybe you can make the case he's still on the books).

Zucker would be the only 1 you might say, but he's going through an unbelievably low (and likely unsustainable) shooting percentage. If he normalizes, people will forget all about this.

This team has some major decisions with it's Forward group- that's where the focus should be on.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

In Matheson's last 52 games (dating back to 3-24-2021), here is what his stat line looks like:

-52 games, 6 goals and 24 points and a +10 (pace of 9 goals and 38 points per 82 games)
-In terms of on-ice results at 5v5, he has a 55.79% CF%, 57.76% HDCF%, 57.50% GF% and 54.83% xGF%. Every one of those is best or 2nd best among Penguins defensemen over that sample size.
-In terms of production at 5v5, he has a 0.43 goals/60 and a 1.35 points/60. That's the best in terms of goals and 2nd best in terms of points, only behind Letang

So why exactly do the Penguins have to dump him? Matheson is objectively playing up to his salary this year. Even if you only want to look at this year, his results are still really damn good:

-32 games, 3 goals and 12 points and a +2 (pace of 8 goals and 31 points per 82 games)
-In terms of on-ice results at 5v5, he has a 57.42% CF%, 60.00% HDCF%, 55.81% GF% and 57.44% xGF%. All of those are best or 2nd best on the Penguins.
-In terms of production at 5v5, he has a 0.34 goals/60 and a 1.25 points/60. That is effectively the same as Letang.

I still think Matheson can get better here.

He's improved on the plays that many criticize him for and you don't see it as often this season (granted his abilities allow him to jump into plays and do things alot of dmen in the NHL cant so he puts himself in positions on the ice many others wouldn't see)

Another few years in the same system and we could be talking a steal at his cost

 

[Empoleon8771]

I also find it funny that people criticize Matheson's contract as the "bad" one while Marino's analytics are downright ghastly and he's making only marginally less than Matheson

Frankly, I don't think any of the contracts they've given out on defense are problematic. I think the only reason the Pettersson one might be an issue is because of their depth on LD and their general monotone build on defense overall, but I don't think Pettersson at $4 million is really that big of an issue.

I feel like if the Penguins had a 23 year old Robert Bortuzzo or righty Ian Cole making dirt cheap as the 3rd pair RD, no one would be complaining about what they're paying the rest of their defense.

 

[Richard]

I have a problem with zero of the Penguins defensive contracts. All are movable All are at or slightly below market. Marino has been up and down but he has made the second most elite plays (behind Letang) this season. Some of his decisions you are like wow this kid has all-star potential and its his third season. By year 5 I'd imagine he will be 1B 2A kind of good.

 

[orby]

I would offer Geno 3 years at 7.1 million just for the numerology. Considering where the Pens are at, 3 years, 7 mil feels about right for Letang, too - 5.8 has a nice ring to it, but that's a lowball. I believe Geno when he says he doesn't care about money, so I think he'll be back as long as the Pens want him to be. I don't know if I feel the same about Letang, though, and I wouldn't begrudge him for wanting to get paid. I bet some team would give him 3 years at like $8.5 mil AAV.

It'd be very cool to see all 3 of those guys retire together, but if it comes down to it, I'd rather see Sid and Geno stay Penguins for the entire career than Letang. Letang is a great player who's meant a lot to the team's success over the past decades...but Geno is one of the best to ever do it.

Letang and pens talking 5 year 6.5M per contract

Malkin 2 years 8M

I don't disagree with the pens choice because, hey, who else are you gonna spend your money on?

Looking for a Winger to bump zuccher to a third line role full time. Could trade 1st but highly doubtful. I know pens have looked at Jordan Eberle and Paul Byron

Where are you hearing this? 5 years seems like an awful long contract for a guy at Letang's age, with his injury history.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

I also find it funny that people criticize Matheson's contract as the "bad" one while Marino's analytics are downright ghastly and he's making only marginally less than Matheson

Frankly, I don't think any of the contracts they've given out on defense are problematic. I think the only reason the Pettersson one might be an issue is because of their depth on LD and their general monotone build on defense overall, but I don't think Pettersson at $4 million is really that big of an issue.

I feel like if the Penguins had a 23 year old Robert Bortuzzo or righty Ian Cole making dirt cheap as the 3rd pair RD, no one would be complaining about what they're paying the rest of their defense.

I just wish Pettersson had a little more meat and sandpaper with that body. Cant hurt to have a little toughness somewhere on the backend

 

[spcastlemagic]

Matheson is really effective this year - having him on the third pairing and his usage generally means he's only going up against people he can out skate. It'd be nice if he'd score a little more, but I can't complain really. You see it all the time this year - just swallowing up inferior skaters on defense.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I just wish Pettersson had a little more meat and sandpaper with that body. Cant hurt to have a little toughness somewhere on the backend

Yeah this is exactly what I meant with the Bortuzzo or Cole comment. The only issue with the defense is that it's unfinished due to not having a guy like that, and they're spending a lot of money on their defense for it to not be completed. If they had a guy like Bortuzzo to play with Pettersson, I think any complaints about not having physicality on the defense would go away.

 

[Turin]

Letang and pens talking 5 year 6.5M per contract

Malkin 2 years 8M

I don't disagree with the pens choice because, hey, who else are you gonna spend your money on?

Looking for a Winger to bump zuccher to a third line role full time. Could trade 1st but highly doubtful. I know pens have looked at Jordan Eberle and Paul Byron

To get both at a cheaper rate after all they’ve given to the Pens is a great outcome.

 

[Beauner]

I wasn't a fan of Matheson at first because he made too many bad turnovers and could get lost defensively. While he's still prone to the bad turnovers, I think he's really cut down on those and I haven't noticed him getting as lost in the D zone. So I currently don't really have a complaint about him.

Ultimately I wanted him to become another Trevor Daley, and I feel like he's doing that right now.

Letang and pens talking 5 year 6.5M per contract

Malkin 2 years 8M

I don't disagree with the pens choice because, hey, who else are you gonna spend your money on?

Looking for a Winger to bump zuccher to a third line role full time. Could trade 1st but highly doubtful. I know pens have looked at Jordan Eberle and Paul Byron

Surprised Letang and/or the Penguins would want a deal that goes longer than Crosby's. I don't hate it, it's just... interesting. Unless 87 has already talked with him about extending his contract for a couple more years when his current one is up.

 

[Sideline]

To get both at a cheaper rate after all they’ve given to the Pens is a great outcome.

Geno for sure. The last two years on that Letang contract will more than offset the gift he is giving the team on the first two years...

 

[Turin]

Geno for sure. The last two years on that Letang contract will more than offset the gift he is giving the team on the first two years...

Letang could theoretically retire if he’s really declined way beyond the level of a 6 mil dman. Is the age 35 rule still in effect? I don’t remember haha.

 

[Peat]

I've no idea how Dom L works this out but his market values for the Pens dmen based on this season's play are

Letang - 11.5m
Dumoulin - 5.4m
Marino - 4.2m
Pettersson - 3.8m
Matheson - 5.3m
Ruhwedel - 3.6m

In other words, our defence is pretty much all around the fairly paid marker at worst, with half of them being bargains and Matheson being close to bargain than fairly paid. Which I feel lines up quite nicely with the eye test tbh.

The only problem with it is the set of skillsets involved and maybe wanting to make space for POJ next season.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The only problem with it is the set of skillsets involved and maybe wanting to make space for POJ next season.

Speaking of POJ, the comment from Wheeler about POJ not offering any special teams upside makes me wonder if the Penguins should rethink their plans for the defense tbh.

This is probably reading too much into it, but I feel like the Penguins have quite a few non-special teams defensemen, as in guys who don't really offer either PK upside or PP upside. Pettersson and Matheson pretty much don't play either on the PP or PK, the minutes breakdown this year basically have Letang and Marino as the PP defensemen and Letang, Marino, Dumoulin and Ruhwedel as the PK defensemen. Do you really want to add POJ to the defense without subtracting Pettersson or Matheson?

I like Pettersson, but if he's not playing special teams at all, I don't really see a justification for keeping him. I don't think you can comfortably move on from Dumoulin and just replace him with POJ with how seemingly little Matheson and Pettersson are trusted on special teams.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Doesn't Zucker have a limited movement clause?

I was thinking we could ship him out in order to acquire Halak. Maybe 1 of the teams that have a ton of cap space would be willing to broker the deal.

I’ll bet he wasn’t smart enough to have the moon on his list...

Chalk this one up in my win column ....never got the desire for Zuck.... had multiple try to explain it months in advance of the trade, never bought in

 

[Peat]

If Malkin and Letang return here at those mooted prices I would be very happy.

Speaking of POJ, the comment from Wheeler about POJ not offering any special teams upside makes me wonder if the Penguins should rethink their plans for the defense tbh.

This is probably reading too much into it, but I feel like the Penguins have quite a few non-special teams defensemen, as in guys who don't really offer either PK upside or PP upside. Pettersson and Matheson pretty much don't play either on the PP or PK, the minutes breakdown this year basically have Letang and Marino as the PP defensemen and Letang, Marino, Dumoulin and Ruhwedel as the PK defensemen. Do you really want to add POJ to the defense without subtracting Pettersson or Matheson?

I assumed subtracting one of them when they decided to promote POJ was the plan tbh.

Although since it's come up, I'd really like them to get Matheson more involved on the PP. Good things happen when he's on it and good things are expected to happen. I think he's a flatout better offensive dman than Marino and if you're worried about him vs the short handed chance then use him like a forward, god knows he's got more to offer the PP than half of ours.

Also Letang-Ruh's stats are psychotically stingy for a PK pairing. Like damn.

 

[ronduguayshair]

I cant get behind this at all......Injuries are unpredictable, and the shot to Geno's knee wasn't his fault.

Again when on he is one of the best players in the game. Teams would kill to have him, you don't let him walk to save Carter or your worst take open up the door for Zahorna or a prospect.

Keep in mind Geno was a big reason we won cups.....he took over series himself. Yes it was a few years back but you still see the potential and fire there. He went off last year and than got hurt (freak injury). Comes back his 1st game and makes a huge impact not even in game shape.

You can fill your roster with PK specialists and or FO guys. I don't even think signing Carter would be a hindrance in getting Geno/Letang signed. Carter knows our cap situation and he still wants to play here he will make it work

You wrote a bunch of stuff and never mentioned the main reason. Keep Letang. Is Malkin your favorite player? Sounds like it.

There's no way we're keeping both #71 and #58. If so then why aren't they already signed.

The hometown discounts people have posted here are absolute fantasy.

 

[Turin]

You wrote a bunch of stuff and never mentioned the main reason. Keep Letang. Is Malkin your favorite player? Sounds like it.

There's no way we're keeping both #71 and #58. If so then why aren't they already signed.

The hometown discounts people have posted here are absolute fantasy.

Will you leave the board when proven wrong?

 

[Gurglesons]

I don’t see Seattle giving up Eberle for cheap but he’s exactly the type of player I’d add in to this group despite him not having the size element we want.

 

[Beauner]

You wrote a bunch of stuff and never mentioned the main reason. Keep Letang. Is Malkin your favorite player? Sounds like it.

There's no way we're keeping both #71 and #58. If so then why aren't they already signed.

The hometown discounts people have posted here are absolute fantasy.

That's a much, MUCH bolder assumption than those 2 taking slight discounts

 

[HandshakeLine]

I love only the team on the crest, and I show my love by insisting we ice the worst rosters possible.