Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread: Spinning our Rud-wheels all summer long...

[mpp9]

I'd love to have Staal back. But I still say offensive D-man and young fresh legs in the bottom six will get this team back to contending over even the best 3C.

 

[KIRK]

I'd love to have Staal back. But I still say offensive D-man and young fresh legs in the bottom six will make get this team back to contending over even the best 3C.

While they need both, they need the right 3C more than they need fresher legs in the bottom 6.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

What kinda buzzword phrase is "fresh legs in the bottom six"? McCann just turned 24. Blueger, Simon, Lafferty, ZAR are all 26 or younger.

We need good players in the bottom six. Guys who can create offense from the 3rd line. Guys whose speed and style give opposing teams pause when it comes to gameplanning against the Penguins--beyond the tried and true "shadow Sid and Geno, nothing else matters" stuff. We could stand to allow the 4th line to have a little more freedom offensively as well. I know everyone loves to bang the "elite defensive unit" drum constantly, but if they're complete non-factors offensively, how is that a fair tradeoff? Especially considering these elite shutdown guys weren't anything approaching good in that regard against the Habs.

I don't know, man. I think we need a whole new 3rd line, starting with a significant 3C or 3W, we should swap ZAR out for someone with a little more offensive ability and allow that 4th line to operate more freely with regard to their two-way game, and we need desperately need scoring depth beyond Letang on the blueline.

 

[JTG]

I'd like Staal, but his scoring woes extend seasons now. I'd rather have a 3C can that be counted on for some secondary scoring, as much as I would love to have his defensive and faceoff ability in the lineup.

 

[KIRK]

What kinda buzzword phrase is "fresh legs in the bottom six"? McCann just turned 24. Blueger, Simon, Lafferty, ZAR are all 26 or younger.

We need good players in the bottom six. Guys who can create offense from the 3rd line. Guys whose speed and style give opposing teams pause when it comes to gameplanning against the Penguins--beyond the tried and true "shadow Sid and Geno, nothing else matters" stuff. We could stand to allow the 4th line to have a little more freedom offensively as well. I know everyone loves to bang the "elite defensive unit" drum constantly, but if they're complete non-factors offensively, how is that a fair tradeoff? Especially considering these elite shutdown guys weren't anything approaching good in that regard against the Habs.

I don't know, man. I think we need a whole new 3rd line, starting with a significant 3C or 3W, we should swap ZAR out for someone with a little more offensive ability and allow that 4th line to operate more freely with regard to their two-way game, and we need desperately need scoring depth beyond Letang on the blueline.

Concur 100% that we need good. And taking it a step further, right (i.e., to help complete a right mix).

I think, from my perspective at least, is the Pens lack what I'd call the infectious enthusiasm you get with young players, like we got with Jake in 2017 or the WBS kids who came up with Sully in 2016. The mix now, even in the bottom six, just seems so stale in that regard.

 

[KIRK]

I'm pretty positive ZAR is better than Kuhn objectively.

But as a fan. Kuhn's random highlight reel goal is more fun to watch.

Just out of curiosity . . . what's behind door number three?

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

I'm pretty positive ZAR is better than Kuhn objectively.

But as a fan. Kuhn's random highlight reel goal is more fun to watch.

Well he will.have one more year to prove himself. So hopefully he does. We have others who should be ready to take his place in 2021

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Concur 100% that we need good. And taking it a step further, right (i.e., to help complete a right mix).

I think, from my perspective at least, is the Pens lack what I'd call the infectious enthusiasm you get with young players, like we got with Jake in 2017 or the WBS kids who came up with Sully in 2016. The mix now, even in the bottom six, just seems so stale in that regard.

They're just a bunch of guys who... Exist. That's it. McCann's not a terrible player, but he's just nothing special. His strengths are his skating and his shot, and as a center, he doesn't seem like he's able to utilize them to any real degree. Hornqvist just does what he always does, regardless of linemates or role. He plods his way up the ice, parks in front of the goalie and calls it a shift. Simon's this weird ghost whenever he's not with Sid and Jake. Lafferty's a guy who tries real hard and skates real fast, but... Doesn't really have much beyond that. Blueger's a guy I think could be our new Cullen, but they can't simply surround him with skill-less lunchpail guys like ZAR and Tanev and expect any sort of offensive production. ZAR is, again, just a nothingmancer. His stats are shiny and cool, but if you rolled him up in a rug and left him in a dumpster I'd never notice he was gone. Tanev's a more veteran version of Lafferty--skates real fast, tries real hard, hits everything, but like, are you happy paying $3.5 million AAV for a 4th liner who only brings that to the team? Ehhhh, I don't know, man.

 

[Peat]

Just out of curiosity . . . what's behind door number three?

Carter Rowney.

 

[cygnus47]

Concur 100% that we need good. And taking it a step further, right (i.e., to help complete a right mix).

I think, from my perspective at least, is the Pens lack what I'd call the infectious enthusiasm you get with young players, like we got with Jake in 2017 or the WBS kids who came up with Sully in 2016. The mix now, even in the bottom six, just seems so stale in that regard.

That comes with identity, of which we have none. I think we need an improvement over Pettersson and for Sullivan to re-implement the aggressive defensive zone game again. We generated practically no oddman rushes all season because we played so passive. 'Insulate the goalie and hope the other team lets us through the neutral zone' isn't an identity. How could you be enthusiastic about that?

 

[Rakell67]

Carter Rowney.

Hey I liked Rowney too. Don’t pick in him.

 

[KIRK]

They're just a bunch of guys who... Exist. That's it. McCann's not a terrible player, but he's just nothing special. His strengths are his skating and his shot, and as a center, he doesn't seem like he's able to utilize them to any real degree. Hornqvist just does what he always does, regardless of linemates or role. He plods his way up the ice, parks in front of the goalie and calls it a shift. Simon's this weird ghost whenever he's not with Sid and Jake. Lafferty's a guy who tries real hard and skates real fast, but... Doesn't really have much beyond that. Blueger's a guy I think could be our new Cullen, but they can't simply surround him with skill-less lunchpail guys like ZAR and Tanev and expect any sort of offensive production. ZAR is, again, just a nothingmancer. His stats are shiny and cool, but if you rolled him up in a rug and left him in a dumpster I'd never notice he was gone. Tanev's a more veteran version of Lafferty--skates real fast, tries real hard, hits everything, but like, are you happy paying $3.5 million AAV for a 4th liner who only brings that to the team? Ehhhh, I don't know, man.

I've said a few times recently we've reached the 'Late Carolina Phase' of The Jim Rutherford Experience.

Lots of market value deals for guys who are just kind of there, where there's no real team identity or dynamic mix or energy and where the whole is less than the sum of its parts.

It's why I also objected to the Pettersson deal. He's a kid with some upside, and the deal he got is a market deal. But, like the guys you mentioned up front, in your words . . . he's just kind of there.

 

[KIRK]

Carter Rowney.

Okay, then I'll take the arsenic behind door number four.

 

[Rakell67]

I'm pretty positive ZAR is better than Kuhn objectively.

But as a fan. Kuhn's random highlight reel goal is more fun to watch.

Did you see his no look pass to Martin for a goal?

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I've said a few times recently we've reached the 'Late Carolina Phase' of The Jim Rutherford Experience.

Lots of market value deals for guys who are just kind of there, where there's no real team identity or dynamic mix or energy and where the whole is less than the sum of its parts.

It's why I also objected to the Pettersson deal. He's a kid with some upside, and the deal he got is a market deal. But, like the guys you mentioned up front, in your words . . . he's just kind of there.

I've been getting raked over coals for criticizing Petts all season. Still hate his deal. The dude, to me, is a good-to-great 3rd pairing guy and nothing more right now. He may get better, but I think his absolute ceiling is as a passenger type of guy on the 2nd pairing. I hate the idea of just defaulting him to Marino's pairing when I think that Marino's partner needs way, way more offensive ability.

But yeah, as for JR, I think we should've pulled the ripcord after the Isles series and cleaned house. It was clear that based on the previous couple of seasons that the direction of the team and approach by the GM/coach was trending steadily in the wrong direction. But here we are, handing those two yet another season of the ever dwindling window to figure their shit out and fix this mess--which I don't think will happen, and we'll be right back here next off-season looking for a new GM and coach, two years too late.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Rowney... so rugged.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

ZAR considered indispensable to anything is high f***in' comedy, to me. This is where advanced stats start to get sideways looks. Jesse does good work but a big yikes on that one.

And man I get that 3Cs aren't exactly UNimportant but I swear this board would spend every spare penny of cap on depth centers if they could. I just really don't understand the driving obsession. When/if they do that and the team suddenly can't score to save it's life because their wings are all a bunch of goobers outside of like 1 1/2 guys I don't wanna hear about it.

ZAR is what’s wrong with this league, and I dislike saying that, but people who spout fancy stats with him always ignore the opportunity cost when this guy is on the ice.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Circling back on the Staal thing, I wouldn't mind Staal coming back because he's good at cycling the puck, defensively responsible, and solid at faceoffs. But you'd need Carolina to retain heavily, and I think you'd still need a significant offensive presence on the wing for the 3rd line to be where it needs to be with Staal at center.

 

[theicebox]

Circling back on the Staal thing, I wouldn't mind Staal coming back because he's good at cycling the puck, defensively responsible, and solid at faceoffs. But you'd need Carolina to retain heavily, and I think you'd still need a significant offensive presence on the wing for the 3rd line to be where it needs to be with Staal at center.

Guentzel - Crosby - Simon
Zucker - Malkin - Rust
Poulin - Staal - Kapanen
Tanev - Blueger - Hornqvist
Lafferty

Dumoulin - Letang
Joseph - Marino
Pettersson - Riikola
Ruhwedal

Murray / Jarry
DeSmith

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Guentzel - Crosby - Simon
Zucker - Malkin - Rust
Poulin - Staal - Kapanen
Tanev - Blueger - Hornqvist
Lafferty

Dumoulin - Letang
Joseph - Marino
Pettersson - Riikola
Ruhwedal

Murray / Jarry
DeSmith

Really don't think it's fair to ask Poulin to provide the offensive punch needed from that combination of 3rd liners. Don't know if POJ is ready to step into top-4 minutes/role either. I hate the idea of spending like $10 million on a 4th line. Can't stand Simon with Sid and Jake either.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

ZAR is what’s wrong with this league, and I dislike saying that, but people who spout fancy stats with him always ignore the opportunity cost when this guy is on the ice.

Hes not a great player by any stretch but i can give up 5 points or so for one of the best defensive forwards in the game. I pretty sure with that level of defense hes helping save more goals against than hes not scoring. Especially if you can use him against opposing top lines.

the problem with this team is simple. Our bottom pair was atrocious and killed anyone whom they were on the ice with.

It doesnt matter whos in. Your bottom 6 if you nuke your 2nd line every time there on the ice.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Hearing "one of the best defensive forwards in the game" describing ZAR just makes my eye twitch, man. When I think "best defensive forwards in the game" I immediately think of guys like Hossa, Datsyuk, Stone, Bergeron, etc. I know ZAR's stats suggest he's some defensive behemoth, but good f***, does it not translate to the eye test.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Hes not a great player by any stretch but i can give up 5 points or so for one of the best defensive forwards in the game. I pretty sure with that level of defense hes helping save more goals against than hes not scoring. Especially if you can use him against opposing top lines.

the problem with this team is simple. Our bottom pair was atrocious and killed anyone whom they were on the ice with.

It doesnt matter whos in. Your bottom 6 if you nuke your 2nd line every time there on the ice.

ZAR has been an absolute zero the last three playoffs and JR deserves what he gets if he keeps the guy around.

ZAR has shown us who he is every playoffs, believe him.

While he’s not the entire reason why their bottom six has contributed so little offense in the playoffs the last three seasons, he is part of the problem.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Hearing "one of the best defensive forwards in the game" describing ZAR just makes my eye twitch, man. When I think "best defensive forwards in the game" I immediately think of guys like Hossa, Datsyuk, Stone, Bergeron, etc. I know ZAR's stats suggest he's some defensive behemoth, but good f***, does it not translate to the eye test.

he anchored on of the best shutdown lines in the league. And as soon as he got hurt they stopped being one of the top shutdown lines in the league.

i know he looks like a big nothingburger and after he hits the redline he is. But after doing it two straight years im pretty confident those stats aint lying.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

ZAR has been an absolute zero the last three playoffs and JR deserves what he gets if he keeps the guy around.

ZAR has shown us who he is every playoffs, believe him.

While he’s not the entire reason why their bottom six has contributed so little offense in the playoffs the last three seasons, he is part of the problem.

offensively sure he bad.

but if your looking for offensive from your 4th line LW to succeed in the playoffs, you got a lot of bigger problems.