Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread: Spinning our Rud-wheels all summer long...

[SEALBound]

New thread since the other was close. Mods, edit up this first post as needed.

Click to read more...

 

[SEALBound]

I'm not championing getting rid of McCann. However - as a 2C he'd be severely outmatched on most nights.

Also - the Brassard experiment should not be the litmus test on having another offensive C in Pittsburgh. He was a combination of a guy who severely underperformed, as well as being caught up in a coaching system that completely neutered any hope of offense from the third or fourth lines.

I don't agree with either thing you said. When both Sid and Geno were out, McCann took the bulk of the 2C work and did just fine, mostly because he had top 6 capable wings. The problem is with this team sometimes (from the fans POV) is that we expect our 2C to be Malkin or Crosby quality and for 28 NHL teams, it's not. If we expect Malkin or Crosby out of McCann, we'll be disappointed. If we look objectively at McCann's abilities and then how he performed under the circumstances, I think he was just fine. That said, I think he's be just fine as the 2C here if Sid or Geno go down, especially considering he'd be getting Jake/Rust or Zucker/Kappy.

Brassard is perhaps the relationship that will make this fan base crazy for years. Regardless of how Brassard worked out here, JR should NEVER EVER be afraid to go out and get the next Brassard. Pre-trade, that was a home run decision to go after him and I don't fault him one bit for it. That was going to be the move that put us over the top and there were 30 NHL teams poo'ing in their huggies over it. That said, Brassard got a combo of Sheary/Rust/Kessel/Simon most of his time here. Pretty sure in the playoffs it was Sheary/Rust to start then Rust went with Geno and Kessel slid down to Brassard. Bottom line, I don't believe there was anything about Sullivan's "coaching system" that neutered "any hope of offense". That's silly. We can agree on a "severely underperformed" part, so let's place the blame appropriately.

When you have Crosby and Malkin aging a GM can't afford to be so hit and miss with his decisions. GMJR has made thing s worse due to not grasping Pens needed more balanced roster as to skill, size and physicality. GMJR now has to move his bad decisions and higher cost RFA's to assemble the last roster for a cup run. It is a failure from the get go to add pieces that just didn't fit together after he went soft trading Cole and Reeves for Brassard. Monumentally stupid for an experienced GM to make that move when that team was playing as good as anyone at the time. Quite frankly him and Sully will be gone after this year. Then the needed rebuild should begin and the Pens have a decent corp to build around. Poulin, Legare, Jarry, Jake, Kap, Marino, and with some development Maniscalco, POJ and O'Reilly. Get back young top prospects and picks for Geno, Letang, Horny and go from there

There's a difference between bringing in the wrong type of player and the player not performing as we expected. Your 2nd line baffles me to be honest. If you look who he brought in at the time, each player was nearly exactly who the team needed at the time. Some have worked, others haven't.

About the only addition that was just a flat out miss at the time, in the past, and now, and will be in the future is Jack Johnson...I think we can all agree on that. It's difficult for me to fault him on the players he's brought in besides him though. We can argue each individual deals cost though...as JR tends to overpay and that would be fair. But if we look at the hole each player was supposed to fill, we need to have a certain amount of appreciation for JR's willingness to go out and get those players. At the end of the day, it's up to the players to perform.

 

[TimmyD]

The Fleury rumor that Madden put out might be one of the dumbest things I have seen this offseason and it would absolutely cripple the Pens cap situation... but man would I be entertained watching a certain portion of the fanbase who craved Tristan Jarry being the starter over Matt Murray have a sudden change of heart and be outed as the agenda driven hypocrites they truly are

 

[Jules Winnfield]

The Fleury rumor that Madden put out might be one of the dumbest things I have seen this offseason and it would absolutely cripple the Pens cap situation... but man would I be entertained watching a certain portion of the fanbase who craved Tristan Jarry being the starter over Matt Murray have a sudden change of heart and be outed as the agenda driven hypocrites they truly are

Hrdina for Zubrus.

Never trust Madden for a rumor. I don't ever think he's had one right and he's died on his hill for a few especially the neverending lulz around Hrdina for Zubrus. He's just a opinion personality like the Don Lemon/Sean Hannity of Pittsburgh sports looking to get clicks and viewers/listeners for reactions.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I'm with Molon. This team needs more offense. Actually, what they need is more offense from different sources. It cannot all be generated by the two superstars or the power play.

If an offensive third center does not work because of how we want to play, then how we want to play is the problem.

 

[TimmyD]

Hrdina for Zubrus.

Never trust Madden for a rumor. I don't ever think he's had one right and he's died on his hill for a few especially the neverending lulz around Hrdina for Zubrus. He's just a opinion personality like the Don Lemon/Sean Hannity of Pittsburgh sports looking to get clicks and viewers/listeners for reactions.

I don't think it will actually happen, but man would I sit back and laugh if it did because you just know that most of the fan base who wanted Jarry over Murray would turn on Jarry the minute the trade (or signing if Fleury would get bought out) was announced. Not everyone would, but a large portion of the fan base definitely would

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I don't think it will actually happen, but man would I sit back and laugh if it did because you just know that most of the fan base who wanted Jarry over Murray would turn on Jarry the minute the trade (or signing if Fleury would get bought out) was announced. Not everyone would, but a large portion of the fan base definitely would

That's when you say "But Tristan Jarry is an All Star! You can't start Fleury!"

 

[Deport Ogie]

I refuse to believe any rumors until Allan Walsh tweets an artistic rendering of MAF with an IC Light can on his head.

 

[SEALBound]

The Fleury rumor that Madden put out might be one of the dumbest things I have seen this offseason and it would absolutely cripple the Pens cap situation... but man would I be entertained watching a certain portion of the fanbase who craved Tristan Jarry being the starter over Matt Murray have a sudden change of heart and be outed as the agenda driven hypocrites they truly are

Gonna take a stab that the rumor was MAF being traded back to Pittsburgh? Care to expand at all?

I'm with Molon. This team needs more offense. Actually, what they need is more offense from different sources. It cannot all be generated by the two superstars or the power play.

If an offensive third center does not work because of how we want to play, then how we want to play is the problem.

Agreed, we need contributions from everyone. Its okay if your top 6 lines are your major producers...that what they are there for. But it can't be 45%-45%-5%-5% for line productions. What would be nice is if there comes a point where you can "demote" a guy like Zucker, Rust, or Kapanen to the 3rd line to boost 3rd line production but that also means having a bottom 6 wing contributing effectively in the top 6.

 

[TimmyD]

That's when you say "But Tristan Jarry is an All Star! You can't start Fleury!"

Good point... logical and rational arguments like that totally resonate with people who have clear agendas... I have nothing to worry about

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Good point... logical and rational arguments like that totally resonate with people who have clear agendas... I have nothing to worry about

Indeed!

These days it's ESPECIALLY effective to present your argument in a clear, concise, accurate, truthful and logical manner backed by facts, figures and science and allow your audience to naturally come to the correct conclusion.

Works every time!

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Agreed, we need contributions from everyone. Its okay if your top 6 lines are your major producers...that what they are there for. But it can't be 45%-45%-5%-5% for line productions. What would be nice is if there comes a point where you can "demote" a guy like Zucker, Rust, or Kapanen to the 3rd line to boost 3rd line production but that also means having a bottom 6 wing contributing effectively in the top 6.

I think that player (bottom 6 wing contributing in the top 6) is Poulin. I know everybody sees him as a bottom-six candidate because...Sullivan. But if Poulin is going to be a top-six winger, then play him as a top-six winger, right away.

 

[TimmyD]

Gonna take a stab that the rumor was MAF being traded back to Pittsburgh? Care to expand at all?



I truly don’t believe it even happens but this is where the rumor stemmed from. I’m honestly not even taking it seriously because of the source and because of how little sense it makes, I was just pointing out that I would get my popcorn ready to watch people turn on Jarry if Fleury came back. That has nothing to do with Jarry, more just watching people out themselves as blatant hypocrites with clear agendas

 

[Shockmaster]

I think that player (bottom 6 wing contributing in the top 6) is Poulin. I know everybody sees him as a bottom-six candidate because...Sullivan. But if Poulin is going to be a top-six winger, then play him as a top-six winger, right away.

With Sullivan, the only way that has a chance of happening is if Rust is traded.

 

[TimmyD]

Indeed!

These days it's ESPECIALLY effective to present your argument in a clear, concise, accurate, truthful and logical manner backed by facts, figures and science and allow your audience to naturally come to the correct conclusion.

Works every time!

Absolutely it does! No way anyone would blindly argue with logical facts simply because they love a certain player and really hate that one (or in this case 2) guys stole his job from. Impossible

 

[Jag68Sid87]

With Sullivan, the only way that has a chance of happening is if Rust is traded.

Or if we land a center Sullivan "trusts" for the third line.

Unfortunately, his skill set will probably be like his was as a player.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Also, I am not opposed to dealing Rust. However, at his salary vis-a-vis Hornqvist, the team really needs to try to move on from Hornqvist first. But for the right deal, sure we should look at dealing Rust as well.

 

[SEALBound]

I think that player (bottom 6 wing contributing in the top 6) is Poulin. I know everybody sees him as a bottom-six candidate because...Sullivan. But if Poulin is going to be a top-six winger, then play him as a top-six winger, right away.

Poulin was who I was secretly referring to.

Also, I am not opposed to dealing Rust. However, at his salary vis-a-vis Hornqvist, the team really needs to try to move on from Hornqvist first. But for the right deal, sure we should look at dealing Rust as well.

I would agree. Horny out before Rust is ideal but I also do think Rust currently holds quite a bit more value.

My younger brother (who is not a major hockey buff) suggested this (mind you he's a big MAF fan):

Murray+JJ to Minny for 2nd
MAF for Hornqvist

The values aren't quite there but as a premise, I didn't hate it as a starting point. If you send Murray out and get a dman, 3C, or wing back and ideally some cap, you could send Horny to VGK and not be that much worse off. That said, I don't think VGK needs Horny...like...at all...but I at least applauded him for considering it.

 

[ILikeTurtles]

Hrdina for Zubrus.

Never trust Madden for a rumor. I don't ever think he's had one right and he's died on his hill for a few especially the neverending lulz around Hrdina for Zubrus. He's just a opinion personality like the Don Lemon/Sean Hannity of Pittsburgh sports looking to get clicks and viewers/listeners for reactions.

Wasn't he the one that called Johnson signing with the Pens?

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Wasn't he the one that called Johnson signing with the Pens?

People were saying we were going to trade or sign for Johnson years because that was Sid's BFF and before he signed with us it was heavily speculated by many he'd sign with us. He wasn't breaking anything.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Like I said a few days ago, GMJR could've went full idiot Joffrey Lannister and deal both Murray and Jarry and bring back MAF on a discount. I wouldn't be surprised one bit.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Looks like we've got a bidding war for Murray

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Looks like we've got a bidding war for Murray

Yay!

 

[Gurglesons]

Looks like we've got a bidding war for Murray

Avs can’t trade for him yet. Tbh. I hope JR trades him quick. Last thing we need is CBUS or Andersen entering the market.

 

[mpp9]

No excuse to f*** this up.