Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread - Marc my words, they'll get him signed

[Rakell67]

Patrick Eaves is still in the NHL!?

He’s been on LTIR.

 

[Gurglesons]

Highly doubt Anaheim wants anything to do with Schultz after what he pulled.

 

[Peat]

The cap obviously had something to do with this. Maybe he's got injury scares, but look at his track record and the track record of UFA dmen that have offensive acumen like him. This is a bizarre offseason where the cap didn't appreciate enough based on recent contracts and a ton of marquee RFA's teams are focused on. UFA's this summer generally got less than they otherwise would after the initial wave of craziness. There weren't many teams out there able to take advantage of this type of deal that Gardiner would be willing to go to (or at least that's one reading of the situation).

But in which case, why did Gardiner take 4 years rather than gamble on himself to stay fit and not suck this season and get a better deal than 4x4m next season? I mean, 4x4m is ridiculous for a guy with Gardiner's points totals, and that 4 year term is about the worst imaginable for him - too long to make another big contract likely but not long enough to secure good money in what might be his down years.

Don't get me wrong, there's a ton of possible answers as to why that is. Maybe he's just very risk adverse when it comes to that sort of thing. Maybe he'll have four fantastic years and everyone will be screaming about that deal forever. But injury worries - which have been a pretty persistent rumour - would explain what happened pretty well. Gardiner was never getting what he wanted at this point in the summer - but he didn't have to handcuff himself to it like he did.

 

[Rakell67]

Highly doubt Anaheim wants anything to do with Schultz after what he pulled.

Oh snap! I forgot.

 

[Riptide]

As I said earlier in the summer, this year's relative cap crunch meant some players were going to have to sign for less than historical market value. JR had an opportunity to take a look at that after moving Maatta and Kessel. Instead, he chose to dump money into a good, but overpriced depth player leaving the biggest gap on the roster (another puck mover and potential Schultz replacement in a year) wide open.

30 other GM's didn't get Gardiner, so I am not making a huge deal out of this, but it was pretty obvious to anyone paying attention that some players were going to be signed for relative bargains.

So JR shouldn't have signed anyone, and waited to potentially get a "bargain" ?? Why couldn't JR have just moved Rust and still had the same cap space he had in June??

 

[Turin]

So JR shouldn't have signed anyone, and waited to potentially get a "bargain" ?? Why couldn't JR have just moved Rust and still had the same cap space he had in June??

Rip every hockey decision happens in a context and timeless vacuum. If it didn’t, then we could only bitch about 5% of what we normally do, and if we did that then we’d have nothing to say.

 

[Ryder71]

Ugh JR. Tanev was a luxury but Gardiner would fit a big need.

I somewhat disagree. Tanev should help this team and I'm glad we got him. Just NOT at that price or for that term. TBH I'm not as high on Gardiner as others, but unquestionably he'd be a better option than JJ.

 

[Riptide]

I don't think too many teams would baulk at paying 4 mill for Gardiner. Four years, though, might make teams shy away.

All depends on how bad his back injury is.

 

[Riptide]

That’s a little older and signed for an eternity. What’s crazy is this is still JR’s best offseason in years.

5 months really matters?? Now some people are really reaching.

 

[Gurglesons]

So JR shouldn't have signed anyone, and waited to potentially get a "bargain" ?? Why couldn't JR have just moved Rust and still had the same cap space he had in June??

Because Rust has proven to be a better player than Tanev potentially being a better fit and this team should be making shrewd moves especially when we have 13 forwards that can play on the NHL roster without Tanev.

 

[Riptide]

Because Rust has proven to be a better player than Tanev potentially being a better fit and this team should be making shrewd moves especially when we have 13 forwards that can play on the NHL roster without Tanev.

Yep, nothing like making no changes to players who had disappointing seasons and several poor playoffs.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yep, nothing like making no changes to players who had disappointing seasons and several poor playoffs.

Simply moving Kessel and doing our best to get out of JJ’s contract would have done a lot towards our issues last year.

Let’s also not pretend Crosby just had his best year in the last couple playing predominantly with Jake and Rust.

 

[Peat]

So JR shouldn't have signed anyone, and waited to potentially get a "bargain" ?? Why couldn't JR have just moved Rust and still had the same cap space he had in June??

If Rutherford hadn't signed Tanev, he'd have just given Pettersson a long term contract back in July and had a quiet summer. And we still wouldn't have got Gardiner.

Which would have resulted in people still cussing about this and having that money tied up in Johnson, which I guess is fair enough, but that's the original sin here.

Simply moving Kessel and doing our best to get out of JJ’s contract would have done a lot towards our issues last year.

Let’s also not pretend Crosby just had his best year in the last couple playing predominantly with Jake and Rust.

Sid and Jake had a great year regardless of who was on their right wing and scored at the slowest pace when Rust was there.

 

[Gurglesons]

If Rutherford hadn't signed Tanev, he'd have just given Pettersson a long term contract back in July and had a quiet summer. And we still wouldn't have got Gardiner.

Which would have resulted in people still cussing about this and having that money tied up in Johnson, which I guess is fair enough, but that's the original sin here.



Sid and Jake had a great year regardless of who was on their right wing and scored at the slowest pace when Rust was there.

Is that a case of sample size or Rust?

Also, I’d argue having that cap space we tied up in Tanev would make a JJ trade much more likely.

 

[Turin]

Is that a case of sample size or Rust?

Also, I’d argue having that cap space we tied up in Tanev would make a JJ trade much more likely.

Considering Rusts performance across the board sans two weeks last season, I’d guess Rust.

 

[Peat]

Is that a case of sample size or Rust?

Impossible to say with surety. Yes, Rust's sample is a lot bigger, but the fact everybody else beat his sample by a sizeable amount isn't to his favour. As such, my guess is that if they'd played all those minutes with Sid, they might have dipped, but probably not so much that Rust would look like being Sid's best RW. It was a good season for Rust, but not one in which he distinguished himself from the pack or made a case for being an essential part of the best version of that line imo.

Also, I’d argue having that cap space we tied up in Tanev would make a JJ trade much more likely.

Mm. Maybe.

I mean, there was a period where it looked like having that cap tied up would force Rutherford to do something, but it didn't.

I think that the problem is that the most important variable needed for a JJ trade to go through is that Rutherford's got to be willing to pay the price needed to see him go and implicitly admit to messing up majorly. I don't think anything's going to do that other than continued shitting the bed to the point where Sully's threatening to put that putter where the sun doesn't shine if something isn't done.

I guess it'll be easier once we reach that point if we can take cap back... but it's still gonna either be freaking expensive, or include taking back something so stinky we're questioning whether its worth it.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

On Kessel:

"I loved playing with him," Crosby said at the NHL Player Media Tour. "Obviously he's a unique personality and that kind of thing, but I loved playing with him. What he's able to do, the talent. The plays he's able to make. He can change a game with one shot...

..."He obviously had a big impact on our team too. He put up a lot of points year after year. It's not easy to fill that. We'll have to find a way to do it"...

"I know things happen. I know players, coaches, things don't always go perfectly and sometimes that gets magnified with him. But I loved playing with him. He was a lot of fun to be around. We have a lot of Cups together." - Crosby

"Yeah, there were times where he might not have played his best hockey. But when the game was on the line you could always rely on him. It's such a gift to have, to have that firepower when you really need it.

"I love him as a person. I'm going to miss him as a teammate. We're going to miss him as a teammate." - Hornqvist

Kessel will be missed by Penguins, Crosby 'loved playing with him'

These seem obvious, but I think a lot of people are underrating how hard it will be to replace Kessel. These core guys aren't just saying nice things, they understand the value he brings...warts and all.

 

[Turin]

I don’t think it was ever a question that if the players were all that made up a franchise that Phil would have been kept.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I don’t think it was ever a question that if the players were all that made up a franchise that Phil would have been kept.

Sure, but it's not just that they liked him. They're outlining his value and importance.

Again, these things seem obvious to some, but I get the impression that a fair number of people here believe his impact can be easily made up for. I think this team's going to be missing an option like Kessel a lot more often than many might predict.

 

[2wayPlay]

Phil will be missed for sure and we will need a team effort of 2nd and 3rd line wingers really stepping up, whoever they may be. With that being said a guy like Phil only has a limited amount of time before the act wears thin. Last year he played 0 defense at times looked like he was almost not trying at all and was completely lax on the PP making Geno look responsible at the point. It was time for him to go but it would be ridiculous to say his point production won’t be missed.

 

[canadianguy77]

Not happy that Canes ended up with Gardiner.

If they didn't already have the best transition d-corps in the league last season....they certainly do now.

 

[Shady Machine]

So JR shouldn't have signed anyone, and waited to potentially get a "bargain" ?? Why couldn't JR have just moved Rust and still had the same cap space he had in June??

You realize you don’t have to spend to the cap every offseason righr? Why did they need to sign Tanev anyway?

Maybe JR could just cleared cap to sign MP and if a bargain like this hung around, then you jump.

 

[Gurglesons]

Impossible to say with surety. Yes, Rust's sample is a lot bigger, but the fact everybody else beat his sample by a sizeable amount isn't to his favour. As such, my guess is that if they'd played all those minutes with Sid, they might have dipped, but probably not so much that Rust would look like being Sid's best RW. It was a good season for Rust, but not one in which he distinguished himself from the pack or made a case for being an essential part of the best version of that line imo.



Mm. Maybe.

I mean, there was a period where it looked like having that cap tied up would force Rutherford to do something, but it didn't.

I think that the problem is that the most important variable needed for a JJ trade to go through is that Rutherford's got to be willing to pay the price needed to see him go and implicitly admit to messing up majorly. I don't think anything's going to do that other than continued ****ting the bed to the point where Sully's threatening to put that putter where the sun doesn't shine if something isn't done.

I guess it'll be easier once we reach that point if we can take cap back... but it's still gonna either be freaking expensive, or include taking back something so stinky we're questioning whether its worth it.

I think it was way easier to move JJ if you’re taking back a similar contract. Maybe we can pull off a JJ for Kesler deal?

I also wouldn’t be surprised to see Rust’s numbers improve tremendously next year. Young kid, first big contract. I don’t think Rust is untouchable, but I’m nowhere near you and Rip’s opinion.

 

[mpp9]

Crosby liked playing with him so much, they never played together for more than a game at a time.

It's just Sid being nice.

 

[Ryder71]

I really like the fact that we have BOTH Rust and Tanev. I think having only one of them leaves us a bit short TBH. Their different but both rely heavily on their speed and tenacity in order to achieve success. Rust has a much better shot and Tanev has the decisive edge in physicality. But IF both play to their abilities these complimentary pieces could pay huge dividends this season. And generally speaking I like our forward group as a whole. I don't see any discernible weakness.