Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread - It's always better when we're together

[Gurglesons]

1. Tanev is not a replacement level forward. He was that in his rookie season. He is a quality depth winger now. 2. Because Tanev does things that most of those forwards don’t.
3. Johnson was a non NHL entity when he signed his deal. Tanev is a good player at this very moment.

What exactly are these secret things Tanev does that Rust, Kahun, McCann and Simon don’t?

 

[mpp9]

I think the only legit gripe with the deal is that it's giving a player who had to play balls to the wall to get and stay in the league, a retirement contract.

Question is, did said player play that way just to get that contract or is that just who he is ala Patric Hornqvist. Psycho mentality who only knows one gear and one way to play the game.

If it's the latter, then how long can his body hold up I guess. So two gripes, I suppose.

 

[dogthateats]

Ahhh day 10 of Tanev contract discussion is almost over. Only 6 years to go.

 

[K Fleur]

What exactly are these secret things Tanev does that Rust, Kahun, McCann and Simon don’t?

He can keep secrets with the best of them. That is one attribute that could explain him getting 6 years of term.

 

[Turin]

What exactly are these secret things Tanev does that Rust, Kahun, McCann and Simon don’t?

Block more shots, play a more physical game than all of them. Kills penalties more than McCann and Rust, Simon and Kahun don’t PK. There’s nothing secret, in fact I’m bummed I even wasted time responding to this.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Rust was an RFA. 30 teams passed on giving Ferland that deal or at least anything significantly higher. Hagelin made 4 when the cap was like 5 million lower.

Hagelin was/is a better player and when he signed over the previous 4 season (his first 4) he was producing at a 40 point pace. He had 130 points in 266 games and was younger.

Compared to a soon to be 28 y.o. who scored 51 points in 195 games (21 point pace) who actually got a bigger total dollar contract.

“this better player signed at a higher AAV” is a terrible defence of a bad contract. It’s the Jack Johnson of arguments.

 

[Gurglesons]

Block more shots, play a more physical game than all of them. Kills penalties more than McCann and Rust, Simon and Kahun don’t PK. There’s nothing secret, in fact I’m bummed I even wasted time responding to this.

You do realize this is exactly what people said to defend the JJ contract.

“He also has the unique potential to be an energy player on the ice. Much like Patric Hörnqvist, Johnson has the ability to spark the bench. He can do this with a hard-fought puck battle, a hard hit, a well timed block or a great defensive play 1-on-1. These are the aspects of the game in which he can change the game.”

“Johnson was in the top 50 in the league in blocked shots last year with 135, which was better than any Penguins’ defensemen. (The closest was Brian Dumoulin with 132.)”

You know what hits and blocks mean. You don’t have the f***ing puck.

 

[Ryder71]

He can keep secrets with the best of them. That is one attribute that could explain him getting 6 years of term.

Truth be told, after I realized those numbers and term were accurate that's where my mind went. It's as if JR was compromised somehow. At least that would make a modicum of sense. Otherwise it just doesn't.

 

[Turin]

Hagelin was/is a better player and when he signed over the previous 4 season (his first 4) he was producing at a 40 point pace. He had 130 points in 266 games and was younger.

Compared to a soon to be 28 y.o. who scored 51 points in 195 games (21 point pace) who actually got a bigger total dollar contract.

“this better player signed at a higher AAV” is a terrible defence of a bad contract. It’s the Jack Johnson of arguments.

He signed at a higher AAV as an RFA when the cap was 10 million dollars lower. Yes Hagelin was a better player, but even declining he was worth his contract to this team.

 

[Gurglesons]

Hagelin was/is a better player and when he signed over the previous 4 season (his first 4) he was producing at a 40 point pace. He had 130 points in 266 games and was younger.

Compared to a soon to be 28 y.o. who scored 51 points in 195 games (21 point pace) who actually got a bigger total dollar contract.

“this better player signed at a higher AAV” is a terrible defence of a bad contract. It’s the Jack Johnson of arguments.

Obviously you’re missing out on how well he hits, blocks shots and his PKing ability...

 

[K Fleur]

Yeah hits are not a stat worth caring about or paying for.

That's how you end up with Brooks Orpik for a decade.

 

[Gurglesons]

Truth be told, after I realized those numbers and term were accurate that's where my mind went. It's as if JR was compromised somehow. At least that would make a modicum of sense. Otherwise it just doesn't.

JR has handed out these deals his entire tenure here. Fleury and Maatta getting large term deals when they were struggling. Hunwick and JJ. If Doug Wilson is the Dentist, Jim Rutherford is the food bank.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yeah hits are not a stat worth caring about or paying for.

That's how you end up with Brooks Orpik for a decade.

Tanev’s hits are different. They are when he doesn’t have the puck in the o-zone.

 

[Turin]

You do realize this is exactly what people said to defend the JJ contract.

“He also has the unique potential to be an energy player on the ice. Much like Patric Hörnqvist, Johnson has the ability to spark the bench. He can do this with a hard-fought puck battle, a hard hit, a well timed block or a great defensive play 1-on-1. These are the aspects of the game in which he can change the game.”

I don’t give a f*** who said that? JJ was an established bench warmer when he signed his deal and I knew it. Tanev is not. JJ was lambasted by Columbus fans on his way out, everybody in Winnipeg loves Tanev.

All I’m saying is that it’s funny that two guys from Manitoba are defending Tanev the player because we actually are, y’know, familiar with him but the guys who have a history over freaking out over every JR deal are, once again, freaking out.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Truth be told, after I realized those numbers and term were accurate that's where my mind went. It's as if JR was compromised somehow. At least that would make a modicum of sense. Otherwise it just doesn't.

Here’s footage of the negotiations

 

[K Fleur]

Who other teams fan's love or don't doesn't do anything for me. I remember seeing people say "Pens fans are going to love Reaves"...

 

[Gurglesons]

I don’t give a **** who said that? JJ was an established bench warmer when he signed his deal and I knew it. Tanev is not. JJ was lambasted by Columbus fans on his way out, everybody in Winnipeg loves Tanev.

All I’m saying is that it’s funny that two guys from Manitoba are defending Tanev the player because we actually are, y’know, familiar with him but the guys who have a history over freaking out over every JR deal are, once again, freaking out.

Ah. Now I get it. Canadian Bias

 

[Turin]

Yeah hits are not a stat worth caring about or paying for.

That's how you end up with Brooks Orpik for a decade.

Very progressive. Wearing down the other team with physicality is not something ever seen by this team. Never happened. The role of initiating body contact is entirely different for defensemen and for forwards. Tanev isn’t missing the play with he’s forechecking, Brooks is often taking himself out of his role entirely.

 

[Gurglesons]

Who other teams fan's love or don't doesn't do anything for me. I remember seeing people say "Pens fans are going to love Reaves"...

100%. I’ve watched enough Winnipeg Jets hockey to know their whole bottom six is vastly overrated and their speed is a factor of playing in a slow ass division.

Lowry and Copp are solid possession players that tilt the ice, but ultimately they don’t score. And I remember Winni fans saying Roslo was a future 2C lol.

 

[Ryder71]

JR has handed out these deals his entire tenure here. Fleury and Maatta getting large term deals when they were struggling. Hunwick and JJ. If Doug Wilson is the Dentist, Jim Rutherford is the food bank.

I think this particular contract is worse than all the others save JJ. Again I like Tanev, but this deal, relative to his abilities is an egregious price to pay. Even with the JJ deal, he likely could have gotten a two year deal for the amount he did here, maybe even three years. Tanev on both AAV and Term is mind boggling. And a NTC as well.

 

[dogthateats]

I think trades are JR’s bread and butter. I don’t recall many bargain signings or extensions.

 

[Gurglesons]

I think this particular contract is worse than all the others save JJ. Again I like Tanev, but this deal, relative to his abilities is an egregious price to pay. Even with the JJ deal, he likely could have gotten a two year deal for the amount he did here, maybe even three years. Tanev on both AAV and Term is mind boggling. And a NTC as well.

The worst part of this deal isn’t actually Tanev. It’s the precedent it sets for Kahun, McCann and Simon. How do you argue they aren’t worth 3.5 mill when they likely play more minutes and produce better than Tanev.

It’s going to totally kill any internal structure for cap we have. Honestly as I pointed out to @KIRK I wouldn’t be surprised if that is why we are going to see Petts get more than 3.25. Due to JJ’s behemoth of a deal.

 

[Gurglesons]

I think trades are JR’s bread and butter. I don’t recall many bargain signings or extensions.

Ehrhoff, Cullen and Comeau. But, Ehrhoff sucked.

 

[K Fleur]

Very progressive. Wearing down the other team with physicality is not something ever seen by this team. Never happened. The role of initiating body contact is entirely different for defensemen and for forwards. Tanev isn’t missing the play with he’s forechecking, Brooks is often taking himself out of his role entirely.

This reminds me of that Ryan Kesler "the human body can only take so much" quote. Or Brandon Dubinsky talking about laying in hits on the Pens as an "investment" in the 2017 playoffs.

 

[Ryder71]

Here’s footage of the negotiations

I wish I could give you TEN likes for this!