Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread - It's always better when we're together

[Gurglesons]

Correct - 6 years after being drafted and after spending 3 full seasons in the AHL. Which is why I correctly pointed out that he took longer to get to the NHL and spent 6x as long in the AHL as Tanev did. Tanev made the NHL the year he turned pro after spending less than half a season in the AHL.

My point was that you brought up how apparently it matters how soon you play in the NHL after being drafted. Dumoulin is a perfect example as to why that's an absurd observation.

What a bizarre way to compare the two. Dumo was in the NHL at 24. Tanev‘s goal was to play in the NHL it took him until the last year to be an NHLer playing 80 games at 26.

 

[Riptide]

Yeah hits are not a stat worth caring about or paying for.

That's how you end up with Brooks Orpik for a decade.

Seemed to work out okay.

 

[Gurglesons]

I knew it would be easy but damn...

Like a door in Patrick Roy's house, you've become unhinged son.

Seems like I just brought some points..?

 

[Riptide]

What exactly is being made up?

He’s a solid 4th liner who is going to be 28 in the first year of a 6 year deal with a career high of 29 points. He can fit in spurts on the 3rd line, but all of Simon, Kahun, McCann and Rust should play more minutes than him. Obv. Jake and Gally too.

Some of us view him as an easily replaced player in the role he should be playing and feel he’s getting blown up into being as effective of a player as Rust or Hagelin because he’s fast.

Just an FYI, his production isn't that of a 4th liner regardless of how many times you say otherwise. That's not an opinion, that's a fact.

I personally am adamant that much like JJ he’ll be used inappropriately because of the contract, but that doesn’t matter because as @Riptide told me with JJ all season and last summer he would be “easily moveable” in the last couple years of the deal.

Big difference between the last couple years (and I think I said specifically after year 2/3), and after the first season.

 

[Riptide]

Also @Solzhenitsyn and @Riptide I think I came up with a player we can hope (and followed a similar path as) Tanev turns into and actually someone that got a similar type deal.
[pic of Alexandre Burrows]

And? Please tell me you're not saying this like it's a bad thing... because if Tanev does what Burrows did A) most here will be eating crow and B) everyone would be extremely happy. That said, it's also pretty unrealistic, and no one (even me) has that sort of expectations for him.

That said, Burrows also had 4 amazing seasons where he scored 117g/218pts over 316 games - a 30g/56pt pace. That said, Burrows played 2 ECHL seasons, 1.5 AHL seasons and 2.5 NHL seasons after he came out of the CHL and before he broke out with a 28g/51pt season.

 

[Riptide]

What a bizarre way to compare the two. Dumo was in the NHL at 24. Tanev‘s goal was to play in the NHL it took him until the last year to be an NHLer playing 80 games at 26.

He was in the NHL in 16/17 playing 51 games. He also played 61 games (missed time for an injury) and paced for ~25pts in 17/18. So it certainly looks like he was an NHLer prior to last season... but keep moving those goal posts.

 

[Coach Travis]

Stages of Grief

Denial: "No, JR won't make that dumb a signing again."

Anger: "What the **** was JR thinking?!"

Bargaining:

The only bad thing about tanevs contract is its 2-3yrs too long for his type of player.

Tanevs production has increased each year he's been in the NHL. He might have more to his game than any of us realize.

Depression: "This contract sucks! And it'll suck for 6 more years!"

Acceptance: "Ah well, we're lucky to have witnessed back-to-back Cups. Eat Arby's."

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

And? Please tell me you're not saying this like it's a bad thing... because if Tanev does what Burrows did A) most here will be eating crow and B) everyone would be extremely happy. That said, it's also pretty unrealistic, and no one (even me) has that sort of expectations for him.

That said, Burrows also had 4 amazing seasons where he scored 117g/218pts over 316 games - a 30g/56pt pace. That said, Burrows played 2 ECHL seasons, 1.5 AHL seasons and 2.5 NHL seasons after he came out of the CHL and before he broke out with a 28g/51pt season.

I'm glad I'm not alone in not understanding the Burrows reference. He's not my favorite player by any means, but like you said, he had some great seasons.

 

[Peat]

Does anyone know how many games Mccann has played at center, or where I can find that info? Not sure how to get stats for certain lines.

NaturalStatTrick has the data if you dig. You can look up the forward lines for each individual game and even better, if you know the lines used where McCann was centre, you can look that up in the Line Tool and then use Game Log to see which games they played. But I don't know of anything better than that.

Now this is a reach. He has improved every single year. Leaps and bounds over his rookie year. He’s a late bloomer because he basically didn’t play competitive hockey in high school because he was the size of 10 year old.

Just on this and not touching the other Tanev stuff for now, but I think it's a shame more countries don't structure their collision sport programs for youths by weight instead of by age. New Zealand do it for rugby and I think it's a huge part of their success.

I disagree, once I heard Cole was in the deal, and considering in the subsequent three days we went without adding a quality depth defensemen, I didn't like it. Wanted Brassard but believed we gave up too much.

It was still a fair price to pay for a 2C with retention. Might have been a price we couldn't afford to pay, but still a fair one.

I didn’t really complain about Kunitz and have no problem with Rust. He’s basically Hagelin’s replacement for us.

But, I get it Tanev is new so let’s pretend he isn’t a worse player because he’s only been in the league for two seasons so he’s going to turn into Hagelin.

Again independent of Tanev - but Rust has been nothing like Hagelin in terms of statistical impacts for us. Hagelin made the top 6 hugely, wildly better. Rust makes it a little worse. Which personally fits the eye test - Hagelin's smarts and more effective forechecking made him better than Rust as a top 6 third wheel. Rust's hands meant he scored more individually, but it didn't make the line better.

 

[Peat]

It’s funny how Penguins fans are literally the only ones trying to defend this contract. But, you and SchmaltzLiquior can argue about how the central is the #toughest division in the NHL.

Pixies, this argument isn't about Tanev's contract, it's about Tanev the player and honestly it'd go easier if you didn't bring up every single possible angle of attack you can think of, no matter how wild. I mean, breaking cap structure? Did Rust demand and get more than Hagelin because he scored more? No. Did Oleksiak demand and get more than Maatta because he'd scored a bunch of points? No. If our upcoming RFAs get paid more than we want, its because of the other RFA comparables around the league. I get that you disagree on a bunch of stuff about Tanev, but if you go full bore pro contrarian every time a Hagelin comparable or what-not is brought up for Tanev, it's going to be a loooooong summer

Just one extra point I do think is worth talking about -

Yeah the league is littered with players that play a grinding game that suddenly progress at 28. Like uh..........

Obviously that doesn't happen very often, but it doesn't happen very often that guys come into the league at the age of 26 and put up two years of decent 3rd line numbers like Tanev. He is already a freak for what's happened; trying to plot him by what happens with most NHL players is using the wrong measuring scale.

Which probably shouldn't mean assuming he will suddenly make another big progression either; it's unknown territory either side.