Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread - I'd rather be your cocoon

[Dipsy Doodle]

I think any and all "Murray as asset" talk is premature. There are simply too many variables right now.

Only time will sort them out.

 

[WayneSid9987]

I'm just gonna talk strictly cash towards the cap:

-Seen enough of Murr to know the combined goaltending $ going into next season SHOULD fall in the 6-7 range. Thats pretty much if Murr fights back this season and battles to get his net back.
Jarry's number is pretty straight forward, he'll get Saros type $ with the inflation so:
2.25-2.5 to max 3.
Murr falls in 4-4.75 or he gone for me.
(ETA: I can MAYYBE push that to 7.5-8 depending on the cap raise).

-Paying anything over 3.5 for Petts this Jan.1 will be overpayment. Needs to be a prove it Big Rig type deal with inflation. 3x3.2 would be around what i would do.

 

[Riptide]

I believe that's what the team will ultimately do (give him a legit starter contract OR move him). Is that really even a question? I thought that kinda went without saying. Cause it's gonna be one or the other. Jarry's performance will also play a significant role in that decision. But whichever path we take we got a good six or hopefully seven months to figure it out.

Given that some (many?) are talking about giving him a 2 yr deal, apparently it is.

 

[larueskee]

I was just wondering how the board feels about Justin Schultz play this year. Heck Pens might be better served by trading for Cole and getting a 1,750,000 boost in cap space next year.

 

[Riptide]

No. You just protect Jarry instead. I guarantee, short of MM becoming the reincarnation of Dan Cloutier, if he's left unprotected for the expansion draft that he'd be picked up. Assuming he's extended in some way.

I do not see that happening. If both are still here and Murray and Jarry both have value and are legit starters, I see one being traded before being exposed.

 

[Riptide]

I'm just gonna talk strictly cash towards the cap:

-Seen enough of Murr to know the combined goaltending $ going into next season SHOULD fall in the 6-7 range. Thats pretty much if Murr fights back this season and battles to get his net back.
Jarry's number is pretty straight forward, he'll get Saros type $ with the inflation so:
2.25-2.5 to max 3.
Murr falls in 4-4.75 or he gone for me.
(ETA: I can MAYYBE push that to 7.5-8 depending on the cap raise).

-Paying anything over 3.5 for Petts this Jan.1 will be overpayment. Needs to be a prove it Big Rig type deal with inflation. 3x3.2 would be around what i would do.

Then you're going to be one unhappy camper... because there's no chance he takes less than 5m this summer.

 

[WayneSid9987]

I was just wondering how the board feels about Justin Schultz play this year. Heck Pens might be better served by trading for Cole and getting a 1,750,000 boost in cap space next year.

He's pretty much blew or hasn't lived up to that contract since he signed it.
Most would like to use him as trade bait but the brass here will treat him like their own rental.
I suppose if they fall out of the PO race, which COULD happen being in this Metro Division, you could more easily deal him.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Then you're going to be one unhappy camper... because there's no chance he takes less than 5m this summer.

I did say combined $ tho Rip with an extra M potentially due to the cap raise #.

2.5 for Jarrs.
And IF Murr fights back this season...
5 still falls in my 6-7 to potentially 8 range.

ETA: I liked @Empoleon8771 hard 8 too but thats totally dependant on Murr fighting back and either being just as good as Jarry or even better at that point in time later in this season + the cap raise #.
Like i said, seen enough of Murr to know how much to gamble on him if they stick with the duo past this season. 8's a solid ,very max number, if that does happen.

 

[Andy99]

No. You just protect Jarry instead. I guarantee, short of MM becoming the reincarnation of Dan Cloutier, if he's left unprotected for the expansion draft that he'd be picked up. Assuming he's extended in some way.

If he’s not playing well, there may be better options for Seattle...

 

[Peat]

As I said, I agree with that assuming we can get someone like Greiss or Lehner but that might be difficult or a more expensive option...I’m just suggesting if the team is not sure they’re ready to cut ties with Murray, they don’t actually have to give him a long term deal...use their leverage with him as a RFA to wait another year...no harm

If the org aren't ready to cut ties with Murray, they'll almost certainly give him a contract with term because virtually no org in the NHL hands out a 1 year to UFA contract if they can help it. That's almost etched in stone.

I thought you were talking your preferences and tbh, I don't get how anyone who thinks this -

No, a long term deal for Murray playing as he is now is fatal...and $6 mil is too much for him rn..you can’t count on it being tradeable...the team might have to give up an asset to Seattle to take him...that’s as bad as giving JJ a 5 year deal at a low AAV...

Wants him here at all next year.

I do not see that happening. If both are still here and Murray and Jarry both have value and are legit starters, I see one being traded before being exposed.

Depends how much they like the rest of their skaters. Might be worth sacrificing a goalie to protect the rest of the roster.

 

[Riptide]

Depends how much they like the rest of their skaters. Might be worth sacrificing a goalie to protect the rest of the roster.

Perhaps... but I'm not sure I see it. Odds are MM could be traded for someone like whomever we lost or more... But that's something JR would be able to gauge before the ED.

 

[Ugene Magic]

If Murray was good enough to backstop us to another cup there's no chance he's going anywhere. Rutherford would in that situation almost certainly move Jarry.

If that were the case, he just upped his value to be traded.

Another season where Murray can't be a full-time 1A never getting more than 50 games in and in a small sample size, again, saving his bacon.

Why don't we just let him sit there and when it gets close to playoff time break the glass and pull the lever.

I'd rather move on and save the cap space. At this point late in Sid, Geno's and Letang's career there simply is no room to pay a goalie 8.0. The team isn't forced to keep him out of nostalgia. It simply is hampering the team for the teams foreseeable future.

That's if they won the cup again as you said. You move him.

They got the best of him. Let some other team pay for his small sample size only perform when the team is lights out in front of him. And he's not even doing that now.

I'm all for keeping Murray for that very reason, the experience and his smaller windows of success for this year/run, but moving forward you can't be paying top coin for half the job done players. He simply isn't a top 5 goalie worth top goalie coin. You overpay for success and that's it. Even then, that's long-term suicide. You won't be having the luxury of having solid backups to cover for what he can't do forever.

JR. has a tough decision. Long-term future or nostalgia.

Hoping for reincarnation is fools gold when he's yet to play a full season worth of a 1A goalie's workload.

He's the only one who can change that. Bet on the under and hope he proves you wrong.

In any case, it's not worth losing Jarry over.

 

[Peat]

Perhaps... but I'm not sure I see it. Odds are MM could be traded for someone like whomever we lost or more... But that's something JR would be able to gauge before the ED.

Probably not that likely, but possible.

Wonder if it may also be possible that we could swing a minor trade with Seattle, formal for future considerations or handshake, to leave a goalie exposed and get a little extra on the side if we've really cornered the market in available goalies.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The willingness people have to jump to conclusions like "re-signing Murray is nothing but nostalgia" is mindblowing to me. Just like it's mindblowing that people are so willing to pull a quick trigger on trading an established goalie because of a great run by a prospect.

By the way, I'd be willing to bet real money that it's more likely Jarry gets traded than Murray. Do some people forget that JR tried to trade Jarry all last summer? Sure, things are different now, but I seriously doubt that a great start for Jarry and a bad stretch for Murray is going to make JR do a complete 180 degree turn on how he views the goalies.

 

[Ugene Magic]

The willingness people have to jump to conclusions like "re-signing Murray is nothing but nostalgia" is mindblowing to me. Just like it's mindblowing that people are so willing to pull a quick trigger on trading an established goalie because of a great run by a prospect.

Economics of the game/NHL are a *****!

Jarry is no longer a prospect.

Just the facts.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Economics of the game/NHL are a *****!

Jarry is no longer a prospect.

Just the facts.

Neither of those are facts.

The actual "facts" are that JR tried to trade Jarry last off-season, Jarry has a total of 40 starts in the NHL and Murray was the undisputed starter 5 weeks ago.

 

[PensandCaps]

dont pay goalies

 

[The Old Master]

. Might be worth sacrificing a goalie to protect the rest of the roster.

or trading him for a pot of gold.

 

[Gurglesons]

or trading him for a pot of gold.

Yeah, those goalie trades for pots of gold are just so frequent we can easily score on it.

If we move Murray, I’d be surprised if he returns much more than a 1st if that.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yeah, those goalie trades for pots of gold are just so frequent we can easily score on it.

Not only that, but trading a struggling goalie who wants a big contract for pots of gold are super easy to do.

 

[Riptide]

If that were the case, he just upped his value to be traded.

Another season where Murray can't be a full-time 1A never getting more than 50 games in and in a small sample size, again, saving his bacon.

Why don't we just let him sit there and when it gets close to playoff time break the glass and pull the lever.

I'd rather move on and save the cap space. At this point late in Sid, Geno's and Letang's career there simply is no room to pay a goalie 8.0. The team isn't forced to keep him out of nostalgia. It simply is hampering the team for the teams foreseeable future.

That's if they won the cup again as you said. You move him.

They got the best of him. Let some other team pay for his small sample size only perform when the team is lights out in front of him. And he's not even doing that now.

I'm all for keeping Murray for that very reason, the experience and his smaller windows of success for this year/run, but moving forward you can't be paying top coin for half the job done players. He simply isn't a top 5 goalie worth top goalie coin. You overpay for success and that's it. Even then, that's long-term suicide. You won't be having the luxury of having solid backups to cover for what he can't do forever.

JR. has a tough decision. Long-term future or nostalgia.

Hoping for reincarnation is fools gold when he's yet to play a full season worth of a 1A goalie's workload.

He's the only one who can change that. Bet on the under and hope he proves you wrong.

In any case, it's not worth losing Jarry over.

And why cant Murray be that long term future? Hes only 25. And odds are very good that hes not getting 8m. With this stretch of play it's likely closer to 6m then 7m+.

And for all the bitcjing you're doing about MM not having played a full seasons workload as a starter ( I disagree, but w/e), what does that then say about Jarry? Hes only played 40 NHL games over 3 seasons. Why is that better the the guy who (off the top of my head - am on my phone) has played 40+ games in each of the past 3 seasons? You're bitching about MM while Jarry hasn't accomplished that either...

 

[Peat]

And why cant Murray be that long term future? Hes only 25. And odds are very good that hes not getting 8m. With this stretch of play it's likely closer to 6m then 7m+.

And for all the bitcjing you're doing about MM not having played a full seasons workload as a starter ( I disagree, but w/e), what does that then say about Jarry? Hes only played 40 NHL games over 3 seasons. Why is that better the the guy who (off the top of my head - am on my phone) has played 40+ games in each of the past 3 seasons? You're *****ing about MM while Jarry hasn't accomplished that either...

Quite. That said - one thing Jarry does have on Murray is lack of injury proneness. At least so far.

...

I'm really sorry for cursing Jarry with this post.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Neither of those are facts.

What?

Are you kidding me?

If it were that easy, Emp, everyone would be winning.

Jarry is a NHL goaltender at this stage, (starter or as the backup somewhere) and can't be sent down, who'd be stolen if you even put your hand near the phone. He's here to stay. Prospect he is not. Not anymore.

Being in the league for the foreseeable future is up to him. He won't be going down to the A as a prospect because he'll never make it there without someone taking him.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Just let it play out.
We all have our opinions but you really can't go into it half cocked.
Wait til the season is over. Get fully cocked.

In the meantime, don't overpay Petts(plz) and get Jarr's locked in, in January.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Just like it's mindblowing that people are so willing to pull a quick trigger on trading an established goalie because of a great run by a prospect.

I find this to be rather untrue. I think people would be up in arms over Murray's next contract because of his recent play in any case. That is when the question would be asked "Who is your starter if not Matt Murray?". This is where Tristan Jarry comes in. Because of his recent play he seems to be the common answer to this question, but the answer could just as well be "Trade for another one" or "Sign one in free agency".