Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread - Hungry for Change

[molon labe]

Disagree on Reaves, always have, but otherwise I pretty much agree with the rest.

If we have to keep one of JR or Sullivan, and one has to go, it seems to me a no-brainer to keep the GM over the coach. This coach has already cost us Kessel (we can believe that Malkin was the main reason Phil had to go, but the coach certainly was not in 81's corner that is for sure). This coach does not seem to be Malkin's biggest fan, either. If he expects all skilled players to play like Sidney Crosby, we are never going to have another skilled forward as long as Sullivan coaches us.

Meanwhile, JR has another Cup on his resume with a completely different organization and roster, without Crosby or Malkin.

I trust him to turn this around way more than the "Sullivan system".

Yeah I don't think you actually disagree on Reaves. He was fine while he was here - as many of us stated time and time again but right now there's absolutely NOTHING he would do to help this team. We don't have an issue with being bullied right now and that's about all he can provide us (over our current fourth liners). He, and they, would produce at a clip of about 3-7 goals a year..and it's likely Kahun outdoes that. There's nowhere in this lineup he is a better fit that what we already have.

I don't feel like arguing about Kessel because you flat out refuse to listen to another stance on the guy. You did so ALL Summer long.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

That says to me JR either wants too valuable a return for JJ, or he isn't willing to package what is needed to move JJ (or can't because he's hurt, *ahem*Rust*ahem*), or JJ is just as putrid a player/contract as well think he is and nobody wants him without a colossal addition.

None of those scenarios inspire confidence in me.

I’m heavily leaning towards option C and JR refusing to pony up.

I suspect he has to give up at least a first or guys like Pouliot/Addison.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Reaves is a bring-nothing player. He's got like Olli Maatta-level production over the course of an 82 game season. Just because he's on a successful team in Vegas doesn't mean he's any measurable part of why they're successful. Nobody wants to fight him because he's the bonafide champ, so they just skate away while he barks or chases and gets penalized. He does nothing to stop, prevent or decrease shots against his guys. He's just kind of... There. He's not as bad a player as a MacIntyre or a Sestito or anything, but skill-wise, he's a run of the mill 4th line plug who makes like three times as much as a player of his caliber should.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I’m heavily leaning towards option C and JR refusing to pony up.

I suspect he has to give up at least a first or guys like Pouliot/Addison.

I've been operating under the assumption that JR has just playing this Wild West game of chicken with JJ and other teams for a long time. He's got this hubris about him that makes me think he's just trying to fleece someone else in a JJ deal like he did with Daley/Scuderi. The report was that there were multiple deals on the table involving JJ, and while I don't really believe Yohe at all, I certainly don't believe JR either. Everyone can be traded, you just have to be willing to either take a bad contract back, or part with substantial assets to move said player. Like you said, JR made a shit sandwich and his arrogance has him firmly planted in this "Well, I'm a genius so I'm going to get someone else to pay me to take a bite of this shit sandwich, I'm definitely not going to swallow my pride and pay them."

What a mess that dude is, man. Again, it could've been purely coincidental (or maybe it's what drove Botts out) but right as we were coming down the line for the second of back to backs, JR pulled this about face and got his massive ego where he was gonna do it his own way with no input from anyone else. There's just no real explanation for how things went downhill so dramatically and abruptly to me.

 

[Peat]

He's just the gift that keeps on giving, eh?

Hah.

You know, I don't even mind the coming cap crunch. I like that he's going aggressively at Murray's last cheap year and accept it's just part of business.

But if there is a turn around needed after this summer, we're so pointed the wrong way - not to mention that if we do need a turn around and this isn't just working through the kinks, not exactly a stellar display of the needed qualities from Rutherford is it now? Not that I need to tell you that...

 

[WayneSid9987]

Said it last night but Sully had 9D to choose from and went with the 6 + pairing them the way that he did on top of it to start out.
ZAR was a non-factor in the PS. So was Kahun while Wilkes kids showed more.
Yes, the cap is a mess but this team could've waived the likes of JJ/ZAR and went in a better direction.
You gotta start somewhere...

 

[Will Hunting]

Ok.. so now we have 5M+ Hornqvist on the 3rd line and 2nd PP unit. Guy is barely an NHLer at ES at this point but he is signed for 4 more years and is playing and being used like this. Then we have ghost in Bjugstad making 4M+ and possibly two supermodern dmen in Gud and JJ sitting in a pressbox and making almost 8M. 17 million right there, ladies and gentlemen. Tanevs contract is supergood compared to Hornqvist or Bjugstad or JJ, imo.

 

[Pens1566]

That says to me JR either wants too valuable a return for JJ, or he isn't willing to package what is needed to move JJ (or can't because he's hurt, *ahem*Rust*ahem*), or JJ is just as putrid a player/contract as well think he is and nobody wants him without a colossal addition.

None of those scenarios inspire confidence in me.

I think there's a possibility that WPG is also a little unsure of what Buff's situation is as well. They can't just add someone with a hit like JMFJ's, and have Buff say "hey I'm back!!!".

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Yeah I don't think you actually disagree on Reaves. He was fine while he was here - as many of us stated time and time again but right now there's absolutely NOTHING he would do to help this team. We don't have an issue with being bullied right now and that's about all he can provide us (over our current fourth liners). He, and they, would produce at a clip of about 3-7 goals a year..and it's likely Kahun outdoes that. There's nowhere in this lineup he is a better fit that what we already have.

I don't feel like arguing about Kessel because you flat out refuse to listen to another stance on the guy. You did so ALL Summer long.

All summer? I was barely here at all this summer.

On Reaves, I firmly believe that had Reaves panned out to the point where the coach trusted him as a premier fourth liner in the NHL (which he is), then I don't think Jack Johnson would have been signed. I also don't think the Pearson for Gudbranson deal would have been done, nor the first or second Oleksiak trades with Dallas. So, yeah, I do think it has an affect on today's lineup. Tanev may also not have been given six years and $3.5 million.

There is only one stance on Kessel. He is a great player who is a diva. If Malkin could no longer co-exist with him, I am fine with trading him.

My problem is the thinking that Galchenyuk, Tanev and Kahun is enough to replace the 82 points and the guaranteed 82 games played.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think there's a possibility that WPG is also a little unsure of what Buff's situation is as well. They can't just add someone with a hit like JMFJ's, and have Buff say "hey I'm back!!!".

That's a fair point, but what Buff's doing is pretty rare, isn't it? Last guy I can remember was Scott Niedermayer who took weeks/months off at the start of a season debating whether or not he really had another campaign in him only to come back.

I still think Rust's injury really f***ed things up for JR. He was going to try and move JJ with a minor piece like ZAR, Simon, DeSmith or Jarry but had Rust as the guy to fall back on to get JJ out of town. When it became apparent nobody wanted scraps for taking JJ, but substantial assets, JR no longer had Rust as his plan B.

 

[Pens1566]

That's a fair point, but what Buff's doing is pretty rare, isn't it? Last guy I can remember was Scott Niedermayer who took weeks/months off at the start of a season debating whether or not he really had another campaign in him only to come back.

I still think Rust's injury really ****ed things up for JR. He was going to try and move JJ with a minor piece like ZAR, Simon, DeSmith or Jarry but had Rust as the guy to fall back on to get JJ out of town. When it became apparent nobody wanted scraps for taking JJ, but substantial assets, JR no longer had Rust as his plan B.

Yeah, maybe Justin Williams IIRC??? Anyway, Buff has like a 7+ M cap hit so that route might be on hold until he makes up his mind.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Yeah, maybe Justin Williams IIRC??? Anyway, Buff has like a 7+ M cap hit so that route might be on hold until he makes up his mind.

I think there are (or were) options, not just Winnipeg. I just also think JR's playing chicken with GMs over this JJ deal and trying to fleece someone hard, which isn't going to happen. One time with Daley/Scuderi was a once in a lifetime thing, really.

 

[SEALBound]

That's a fair point, but what Buff's doing is pretty rare, isn't it? Last guy I can remember was Scott Niedermayer who took weeks/months off at the start of a season debating whether or not he really had another campaign in him only to come back.

I still think Rust's injury really ****ed things up for JR. He was going to try and move JJ with a minor piece like ZAR, Simon, DeSmith or Jarry but had Rust as the guy to fall back on to get JJ out of town. When it became apparent nobody wanted scraps for taking JJ, but substantial assets, JR no longer had Rust as his plan B.

Why would Rust have to be on the roster in order for him to move JJ plus a guy like ZAR? Even if Rust was hurt he could call up Johnson and not miss a beat. You make so little sense its disturbing.

 

[Riptide]

I’m heavily leaning towards option C and JR refusing to pony up.

I suspect he has to give up at least a first or guys like Pouliot/Addison.

I don't think it would have to be anywhere near that steep for him to balk at paying that price as long as his hand isn't forced. Rust being on LTIR bought him more time. Might not change anything, but there's little reason not to take all the time he can to see if something changes.

 

[Riptide]

Said it last night but Sully had 9D to choose from and went with the 6 + pairing them the way that he did on top of it to start out.
ZAR was a non-factor in the PS. So was Kahun while Wilkes kids showed more.
Yes, the cap is a mess but this team could've waived the likes of JJ/ZAR and went in a better direction.
You gotta start somewhere...

And yet Reese game lastnight was fine. Not great, but fine, and certainly not worth getting benched or waived over. Kahun was disappointing, but am more than willing to give him a bunch of games to see how he settles in.

Sure... but you don't start with players who are not the problem.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

Malkin sure sounded like a guy that was entirely too disgusted to even consider signing an extension, if last night was any indication. And I don't blame him, really.

I didn't get that at all. To me he sounded like a guy who really cares about this team and is going to step up into more of a leadership role.

If I was going to get concerned, it would be geared more towards Vanilla Media Sid's "we didn't get to our game" mantra.

 

[WayneSid9987]

And yet Reese game lastnight was fine. Not great, but fine, and certainly not worth getting benched or waived over. Kahun was disappointing, but am more than willing to give him a bunch of games to see how he settles in.

Sure... but you don't start with players who are not the problem.

Several kids stood out more than ZAR and Kahun in the PS.
Marino was our best defender in the PS.
I started saying it last season that ZAR is a 4th liner at best in this league. Ultimately he's waiver wire fodder.
Kahun is new so i get it but they've seen a ton of ZAR and he should've been waived or traded to make room for a Wilkes kid that beat him in camp.

ZAR is just a small snippet of the larger issue tho.
JR/Sully have to have a come to Mario moment here cuz none of what they did up to Game 1 Wednesday worked. Not a single thing other than Murray playing well and G with the 2 new guys.

 

[Riptide]

Several kids stood out more than ZAR and Kahun in the PS.
Marino was our best defender in the PS.
I started saying it last season that ZAR is a 4th liner at best in this league. Ultimately he's waiver wire fodder.
Kahun is new so i get it but they've seen a ton of ZAR and he should've been waived or traded to make room for a Wilkes kid that beat him in camp.

ZAR is just a small snippet of the larger issue tho.
JR/Sully have to have a come to Mario moment here cuz none of what they did up to Game 1 Wednesday worked. Not a single thing other than Murray playing well and G with the 2 new guys.

And what happens when that kid who beat him in camp pulls a Riikola and the level that they see out of him is many levels lower from what they saw in camp/PS? Reese gets far too much shit and abuse around here. He's a good young player who costs 1m and is only in his 2nd full season. The absolute worse case for him is that he's a good 4th liner who's sound defensively and can PK. That's the worse case with him. You don't dump that just because.

 

[canadianguy77]

There had to be a price to be paid for those cups and Hornqvist was the bounty. Pretty much everyone else is gone, so I can't fault him. Thing is, he's the type who will waive his NTC if another contender comes along and wants his services, because he REALLY wants to win.

As for Sully dressing guys like JJ who shouldn't be on the roster, that comes down to GMJR and his politics.

As for Sully's stagnant and out-dated offensive and defensive schemes, that comes down to him.

 

[Coastal Kev]

And yet Reese game lastnight was fine. Not great, but fine, and certainly not worth getting benched or waived over. Kahun was disappointing, but am more than willing to give him a bunch of games to see how he settles in.

Sure... but you don't start with players who are not the problem.

And how was Horny last night?

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

And how was Horny last night?

Other than enabling the team's only goal.

 

[EightyOne]

It'll be annoying when the win 3-0 next game hahaha.

 

[WayneSid9987]

And what happens when that kid who beat him in camp pulls a Riikola and the level that they see out of him is many levels lower from what they saw in camp/PS? Reese gets far too much **** and abuse around here. He's a good young player who costs 1m and is only in his 2nd full season. The absolute worse case for him is that he's a good 4th liner who's sound defensively and can PK. That's the worse case with him. You don't dump that just because.

Theres around 4 guys at minimum, i'd like to see given shots atm.
I'm pretty confident that a couple of them can keep up with the pace of the NHL and be a more effective player than ZAR.
Just how i see it. ZAR is "one of the boys" now tho.
His spot was cemented and thats a small problem of the bigger issue here.

 

[Riptide]

Theres around 4 guys at minimum, i'd like to see given shots atm.
I'm pretty confident that a couple of them can keep up with the pace of the NHL and be a more effective player than ZAR.
Just how i see it. ZAR is "one of the boys" now tho.
His spot was cemented and thats a small problem of the bigger issue here.

The entire starting roster was "cemented". Which isn't really a surprise or all that unusual. And the only reason Reese was guaranteed a starting spot lastnight was because Rust went and got hurt (shocker). Otherwise he would have been battling it out with Kahun to see who the 13F was going to be.

 

[WayneSid9987]

The entire starting roster was "cemented". Which isn't really a surprise or all that unusual. And the only reason Reese was guaranteed a starting spot lastnight was because Rust went and got hurt (shocker). Otherwise he would have been battling it out with Kahun to see who the 13F was going to be.

Pretty sure ZAR would've played over Kahun.
He's part of Sully's pk units.