Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread:(G-DAY) Ned; Watch Out For That First Step, It's A Doozy.

[Gurglesons]

Puusy seems like he is getting a lot of production of his Powerplay time. Doesn’t make sense to use him up here tbh.

If we are arguing someone young should be up, I think it should be Bellerive at this time.

 

[Ryder71]

You have to ask yourself if he did everything a coach could do to try to win that series. Did he even sit Jarry, did he make any major shake ups in the lineup, etc.

The answer is no. Yea, the back up was relatively unproven, but Jarry made it clear he wasn’t going to win you the game. Sully’s stubbornness likely cost us that series, and that same stubbornness continues to play guys that might not make an AHL team or some European leagues.

So while it might not be a big deal to you that we play ECHL guys nightly, it shows Sully has serious issues. If Jarry implodes or if one his turds lose us a game, will he even sit them?

The only players ever held accountable are DeSmith and Kap. Everyone else can play awful with no repercussions.

Sully has been ineffective now as long as he was a great coach. The time to move on was after the Habs series.

But but but then we wouldn’t have dominated the Isles (and still lost) without Sully!

Last year wasn't Sullivans fault, it was Jarry's. We didn't have a viable option behind Jarry. And if we did go to the back up you'd likely bitch about that also. lol


OK, who do you want instead? Give me names. Because if you think Sully is the only stubborn coach in the league then you have a very naive take on things. So, who's better? Who are you looking at?

 

[Ryder71]

Puusy seems like he is getting a lot of production of his Powerplay time. Doesn’t make sense to use him up here tbh.

If we are arguing someone young should be up, I think it should be Bellerive at this time.

Bellerive? He's more in the mold for what Sully would want but I don't see him as NHL material at all. He seems very unremarkable to me.

 

[Peat]

If we wanna stick a kid in the lineup, I don't see why we don't go back to Zohorna.

At some point maybe, but not right now. I just think that when there are individuals here (not necessarily you) clamoring for these guys, it just seems like they want something new or different for the sake of doing so. Not that it has a useful or practical purpose. If we run into more injuries maybe that dynamic changes a bit.

Agreed.

 

[Andy99]

Dr. Andy’s prescription for preparing this team for a long PO run:

1) play CDS more, see how he does and whether you need a goalie trade by the TDL (you’re going to be in the POs so no biggie)

2) try different line combos to get the secondary scoring up and running, including L2…that means breaking up L1, or trying Zohorna on Geno’s wing, trying ERod at center and Carter at wing etc (you’re going to be in the POs so no biggie)

3) make a deadline move for another Kunitz or Horny…same perimeter team as last year with Heinen and McGinn the Tanev and McCann replacements is not going to cut it…need players who can get in the tough areas and make it hard on the opposing D with their forecheck (and can score like early Kunitz or Horny)

 

[Ugene Magic]

I didn't really think I needed to add more context than "goal scoring between Zucker and Simon". There's not a team in the world where that's an excuse to that degree.

But since we're doing this -

Kessel is 13th in g/60 for Arizona. He's their 11th worst forward and 2 dmen are better than him. This is despite having the 5th highest shooting rate. His shooting percentage is 16th on the team. It's not that he's stymied, it's that he can't shoot for old rope and is now an awful goal scorer. You could say that's a half-season and he'll regress to the mean. But when you look at his goalscoring history over the past few seasons, he's been pretty meh to rotten more often than not. He was distinctly average the second half of his last season here. He was even worse in 19-20 than he was now. He was great in 20-21 but it looks that was the sample that regressed to the mean, and not what you hope to regress to.

I can't say I've really watched him, but unless there's forcefields involved that won't be deployed when he comes to Pittsburgh, relying on him to be a goalscorer is a long time out of date. Now with added context.

As for the other points.

- He's not cheap. 6.8m is a big old wad to fit in. Pay for double retention and the trade price gets steep.
- We don't need him on PP1.
- In the 15 games since Malkin's return, our bottom six Cs have had no trouble scoring goals. Carter's had trouble stopping them, but not scoring. So I'm not really buying we don't have the drivers needed for this team.
- Kessel's party trick is transition and quick strike. This team already creates a bunch of opportunities there. It struggles at cycling at times, and it struggles at chance conversion at times. Kessel's not really an aid there.

This is a nonsensical idea and I'd rather talk about Jared McCann again.

When I say cheaper, he's cheaper than say, going after Miller. In the context of assets and cap. Miller or even a Boeser type will cost you both good roster and non roster assets. Kessel at a higher cap hit would still be cheaper where they will take all non roster assets and retain to bring him aboard if they should ever want to do that. (let's be honest here, we both know it won't happen) Now you might say where would they get that cap room. I have real doubts Zucker will be ready for full contact even after his 2 months recovery with just the conditioning stint. I could see where he's LTIRed the rest of the season, or they could do that considering the length of just the recovery period.

We have McCann on the roster, his name is E-Rod. They do not however have anyone who can drive play the likes of Kessel, even taking goal scoring off the table.

Show me where they can add a player of Kessel's caliber, and cheaper being UFA?

Picks and prospects at 50% retained at 3.4. Carter cost only picks to bring in and he was with a year of term left but a few years older at 2.636.

If people are looking for targets who'll be in a similar take, this is the cheapest out there.

Now, explain to me how Carter was doing in LA? Probably worst than or equally bad Kessel is doing in Arizona. Carter's new deal at 3.125 isn't all that off of Kessel at 3.4. They don't need double retention. He's like 2-1/2 to 3 years younger.

But he was a proven player over the years regular/playoff seasons. Much like Kessel.

If Kessel wasn't here before, he would be a candidate.

These are the UFA's:

RW
LW
Center

1 year of term left:

RW
LW
Center

I added centers for the hell of it.

Who's letting their guys go cheaper?

Who's comparable?

While talking about McCann might be your take over this, who's the better or cheaper targets?

That's where this should lead to. Nobody is making compelling takes, only personal preferences/choices that cost even more.

 

[Peat]

Conversations like this are why we should have never let go of Jared McCann. Damn Hextall to hell!

 

[Fiji Water]

Question, what does GCR's stats look like when you exclude empty net situations?

 

[Randy Butternubs]

I mean, I wouldn't say I've watched him enough to be utterly sure, or that he's straight up like Heinen... just, you know, Heinen strikes me as a responsible player who nevertheless isn't a great grinder, and that seems to be Puustinen. Not sure how I'd compare Puustinen to tbh. There's certainly a willingness to play defence and be good at it though.

Tagging @Randy Butternubs on this

I'd also add that right now we can let the kids mature, but next season I think we'll be doing pretty good to have 3 established RW options for our top 9 what with the majority of the ones we have needing payment and might will only have two. Having one of Puustinen and Nylander graduate to the open spot would be hugely advantageous for us, and there's only so-so alternates at RW to them on the farm. We'll see what Hextall does about it, but given he acquired one, got to think it's in his mind that adding a player like one of them is a good idea.

Not getting the Heinen-vibe from Puustinen. To me, Puustinen isn't all that noticeable outside of scoring goals and on the PP. He doesn't look bad two-way but could improve there and in strength. I said something similar about Nylander with the defensive side of things. But Nylander has his playmaking and skating.

I'll make a point to watch VP closer tonight.

 

[Peat]

Not getting the Heinen-vibe from Puustinen. To me, Puustinen isn't all that noticeable outside of scoring goals and on the PP. He doesn't look bad two-way but could improve there and in strength. I said something similar about Nylander with the defensive side of things. But Nylander has his playmaking and skating.

I'll make a point to watch VP closer tonight.

Yeah but it's been a while since Heinen looked noticeable other than his goals either soooo

 

[Ryder71]

Dr. Andy’s prescription for preparing this team for a long PO run:

1) play CDS more, see how he does and whether you need a goalie trade by the TDL (you’re going to be in the POs so no biggie)

2) try different line combos to get the secondary scoring up and running, including L2…that means breaking up L1, or trying Zohorna on Geno’s wing, trying ERod at center and Carter at wing etc (you’re going to be in the POs so no biggie)

3) make a deadline move for another Kunitz or Horny…same perimeter team as last year with Heinen and McGinn the Tanev and McCann replacements is not going to cut it…need players who can get in the tough areas and make it hard on the opposing D with their forecheck (and can score like early Kunitz or Horny)

Here's my prescription for a long playoff run: We get healthy and play to our abilities. As well as Panarin, Aho, Svechnikov, Bennett, Barkov, Huberdeau, Point, Hedman, Kucherov, Mackinnon, Kadri, Makar, Eichel, Stone and PAC are all out with injuries.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Question, what does GCR's stats look like when you exclude empty net situations?

Line Stats - Natural Stat Trick

56% xGF and 68 GF%. Amazing.

Actually better than last year on both metrics.

Still, like Jarry, given the performance last year in the POs it is hard to trust. To the eye test it still looks very susceptible to feeding odd-man chances against. But I'd roll with it for the foreseeable.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Yeah but it's been a while since Heinen looked noticeable other than his goals either soooo

I think DH has been trusted to play PK in the NHL. Can't see that happening with VP.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Miller or even a Boeser type will cost you both good roster and non roster assets. Kessel at a higher cap hit would still be cheaper where they will take all non roster assets and retain to bring him aboard if they should ever want to do that. (let's be honest here, we both know it won't happen).

Show me where they can add a player of Kessel's caliber, and cheaper being UFA?

Now, explain to me how Carter was doing in LA? Probably worst than or equally bad Kessel is doing in Arizona. Carter's new deal at 3.125 isn't all that off of Kessel at 3.4. They don't need double retention. He's like 2-1/2 to 3 years younger.

But he was a proven player over the years regular/playoff seasons. Much like Kessel.

If Kessel wasn't here before, he would be a candidate.

 

[Pens x]

And if they win the Cup this year with Sullivan and Hextall its still not good enough?

Can you name some coaches/gms you think highly of? What type of coach/gm that is available would you be lookinh at?

I’ve already done this over and over. There isn’t one person I would name that you’d say I’m right.

 

[Pens x]

I've watched probably 10 games and though he was definitely the best of the forward group, that in and of itself isn't saying much. Nylander intrigues me but I don't think he's ready right now. He has a good skill set, good vision but he needs to be more dominate down there to get up here IMO.

@Ryder71 believes in Sully’s 10 year development plan for AHL. I wonder if he prefers castoffs that couldn’t get signed in a good European league too.

 

[Flying Dego]

No real need to upgrade our wings. We have ZAR to slot with Geno in 3rd periods for the playoffs and Simon to slide up when Kapanen doesn't play the right game.

 

[dogthateats]

I want Laine, but he is heating up lately so he is probably even more unattainable.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I want a comparable, why would "I let it go?"

I was never scared being told, 'he wasn't coming here, anyways.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I want a comparable, why would "I let it go?"

I was never scared being told, 'he wasn't coming here, anyways.

A comparable to what?

An offensively talented-but-heavily diminished and overall fatally flawed and overpaid player who will likely be a net negative wherever he ends up?

 

[Peat]

I think DH has been trusted to play PK in the NHL. Can't see that happening with VP.

So he has, but he could have fooled me.

Although I gotta say, real Jekyll and Hyde feeling to his season. At the start he really seemed willing to get involved in the little details. And now I watch for it and just don't see it happen effectively.

I am curious to see how Puustinen's all round game develops. It feels like prospect watchers and coaches seem very divided on it.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

@DocEmrickSkitters which reports were it that said POJ wasn't so great in WBS?

I am curious to see how Puustinen's all round game develops. It feels like prospect watchers and coaches seem very divided on it.

Like, coaches feel one way about him and the PW feel another way? If so, absolutely trust the coaches haha.

 

[Ugene Magic]

A comparable to what?

An offensively talented-but-heavily diminished and overall fatally flawed and overpaid player who will likely be a net negative wherever he ends up?

You just described, Carter of last year so many claimed. But yes, a player of higher caliber (elite) on the "cheap" in their later years.

Everyone is clamoring for upgrades while sending out parts they seem to be high on instead of looking for the cheaper alternatives they seem to be willing to take the risks on and add depth without sacrificing their good roster players.

Comparable to a Carter move costing only picks. Using LTIR as the backbone to such moves.

 

[ChaosAgent]

@DocEmrickSkitters which reports were it that said POJ wasn't so great in WBS?

I just saw some "developmental blah blah blah" stuff.

But looking at the stats I appear to be mistaken. You are right, Randy. He is doing quite well. I did have him as my number #1 Pens prospect coming into this year (which is like, saying nothing but whatever) so there's that.

Either way, given his uneven play and struggles at the NHL level I wouldn't just hand Petts' spot to him. Would I move Petts? 100%. He is a decent #4 defenseman but not needed on the 3rd pair. Next year all 3 of Petts, Dumo and Math are a luxury. Math is both essential and unmovable. Once either Petts or Dumo gets moved we can open up competition for that spot. From what I've seen, if POJ doesn't progress he isn't necessarily better than Riikola or some other $1.3M flotsam defenseman floating around. It would be wonderful if he seized that spot and in fact pushed into the top 4.

 

[Peat]

Like, coaches feel one way about him and the PW feel another way? If so, absolutely trust the coaches haha.

Bit of both on both sides. Like, Sully talked prominently about helping him get better defensively at the start of the season. But then you've got this article with JD Forrest praising him. And it sounds like Sully's coming around based on his comments on the promotion.

And prospects watchers - Wheeler's high on his ability to be a two-way player and use his quickness and instincts to make defensive plays, which he says comes up in the stats. But I remember Mike Farkas' post here, talking about Puustinen as a guy that "waits in the weeds" which I guess is more about his offensive game, but if you're not looking to impose yourself in the offensive zone with his skillset are you looking to do it in the defensive game?