Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap: The Trades We'd Make Before The Play Offs

[Big Friggin Dummy]

The more I think about the current front office/coaching issues, the structure of the team, and the big 3 of the core, the more I wonder if it's time to just bite the bullet and rebuild. I don't think Geno or Letang are washed up, but I do wonder just how much longer it'll be before they start to dramatically slow down.

I still don't believe this team will ever approach any of them and ask them to waive their NTC, but I do wonder if Geno would want to finish out his current deal elsewhere. He's spoke publicly about seriously thinking about leaving to be "the guy" elsewhere, but he stuck around because he knew Sid was his best shot at winning Cups. That's the only thing that matters to Geno, I think. If he looks at the current state of the team, I wouldn't blame him if he started to explore his options in chasing one last Cup on a team much closer to that goal than we are (or will be for a couple more years).

Letang's a guy I don't think we can trade while still trying to remain competitive. Not that we're competitive now, but if you remove Letang's presence from this blueline corps, you're essentially done even thinking about the Cup for several years.

I think I'm sort of ambivalent on the whole situation. On one hand, I want to see what a new GM/coaching staff can do, and if they can manage to make the right moves to get one last Cup out of the era of Sid/Geno/Letang. On the other hand, I think I'd be totally fine accepting the reality that we're too far off from legit contention to fix things before Geno and Letang's current contracts are up. Maybe it is time to throw in the towel and go for the rebuild after all.

The team kept going just fine when Letang was injured this season. I don't know how much weight I'd put on that, but it's a pattern over the past few seasons. Letang gets injured and we all panic and everything is fine.

It feels really counter-intuitive given he has a massive impact when he is playing most the time but I'm not sure he's actually a guy who's needed.

Yeah, that's true too. I don't know, but again, the regular season is a whole different animal. I know we won without Letang in 2017, but I feel like that was a crazy anomaly, and the blueline by committee just took their games to an entirely new, unsustainable level.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

A few points here...

- Gallant is intriguing, and I do think a fresh approach/start is needed behind the bench. However, I am not a fan of the recycled coaching chances thing. It happens WAAAY too often in hockey. It is part of that old boys network thing that permeated throughout the league. Gallant and Laviolette are both coaches I respect and admire a lot, but my preference is Mike Vellucci...a guy who has actually won the Calder Cup coming from a different organization and who did so with a prospect-laden squad. Another guy I like a lot is Benoit Groulx, the coach in Syracuse (Tampa). He has paid his dues in the Q and in the AHL. Both of those guys would get my vote before Gallant or Laviolette.

- Even if I would entertain the thought of trading Evgeni Malkin (I won't), it does not make any sense from a roster perspective. We already are desperately lacking in quality centers within the organization. Blueger is passable as a fourth-line center, mostly because of the chemistry he has with his linemates. Otherwise, Bjugstad cannot stay healthy. McCann has been a huge bust. Lafferty is probably a bottom-six winger in the NHL. There is precious little behind that. Not only do we need to keep Crosby and Malkin, but we need to give them some long-range help. One of the top priorities this off-season (as short as it may be) should be to acquire a young (18-22) center who can patrol the third line (or fourth line, as our fourth line plays a lot in key match-up situations) and provide some offensive support.

- Unlike Malkin, Letang SHOULD be traded. The difference is the hole you create on defense is a necessary evil. It's like when a house's foundation is crumbling, you have to knock it down and rebuild it. Our blueline needs to be rebuilt. Our ice time distribution needs to be completely revamped. Roles need to be redefined. I don't think that can happen with Letang still on the roster patrolling the blueline for 24-26 minutes per. We need a new PPQB, we need Marino and Pettersson to step into the No. 1/shutdown pairing role and we need Dumoulin to play either with the PPQB (often, the guy you get to play this role is a bit defensively challenged) or a young RD that can grow with the team. Addison could have been that guy. We currently do not have that guy in the system, I don't think. Then, we definitely need to get rid of Johnson and maybe we can promote Joseph to play sheltered minutes. Ruhwedel can be the safety valve, as he always is.

- I understand the theory behind the Byfield debate but I do not buy it. In Quebec, we have been hearing about this kid Lafreniere as being the next big thing for a long time. Probably since he was 14. If you look at the numbers, he is the real deal. People want to downplay his upside because he does not play center, which is just stupid. He has always been the clear No. 1 for 2020 and he has never done anything to turn this into a debate. He is the only plug-and-play player in this draft and should challenge for the Calder regardless of which of the nine teams ends up landing him. Obviously, if he lands with a certain club with a certain quality center situation (Pit, Edm, Tor, hell I will throw NYR in there), he is going to make a massive impact right away. So there is no debate here...

- Now, the debate about No. 2 is interesting. Byfield is black, while Stutzle is a product of Germany. The hockey community is probably unsure about both players, because neither player is a white bread Canadian kid from the Prairies named Connor or Taylor or Tyler. So, I think that is why there is this debate going on. While Byfield has a ton of potential, I actually think Stutzle would be the easy No. 2 choice if not for the fact that he played in the DEL and not the more conventional top-2 pick hockey route. So there are questions about both players, questions that simply do not exist with Lafreniere. What I believe is going to happen is LA will take Stutzle because they are already loaded at center and I think Stutzle transitions more easily to wing. Also, LA was not afraid to take Kopitar back in the day, despite the fact we never had seen a Slovenian hockey player that good before. That, and they also employ Marco Sturm as an assistant coach, which is an added feather in Stutzle's cap. Ottawa gets Byfield.


Just my take on things.

 

[T1K]

Trading Malkin makes no sense. That opens up a giant hole at 2C.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

Malkin will never be traded, I’m not sure why people spend even one second talking about it.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

If the core were 28 or 29, I'd be all-in on the "fix it at whatever cost" approach, but these guys are 33, 34 years old. Realistically, the amount of moves we need to make (3rd line revamp, blueline, Sid's wing) won't all happen at once, and may not even end up working out at all. Geno and Letang's deals are up in two seasons. It's taken us 3 full seasons, several trades, and a ton of assets to simply try and solve the one hole left by Bonino's departure. We need to unload Murray, Bjugs, JJ, and maybe Hornqvist. We need to reshape the blueline. We need to find a winger to finish the Sid-Jake line. We should start, first and foremost, by replacing the entirety of the front office and coaching staff, minus maybe Gonchar. That's a whole lot of work to do, and things that have to go right, in order to even get back to a competitive/contender status. We're pretty much a lottery team right now. We barely snuck into the playoffs last season on the last game only to get embarrassed by the Isles. We lost a qualifier to even play in the 1st round this season. This team's a mess, man. And it's not just "one of two moves, tinkering here and there" away from legitimacy.

I'd like to see the team win another Cup before the big 3 split up, I just don't think it's realistic. I don't know if I really want to sell off and go full rebuild, but I think there's an argument to be made that it's the appropriate time to do so as well. Even if we revamp the front office and coaching staff, find the right guys for the job, and we manage to go through the process of rebuilding the broken areas of this team--you're probably looking at at least a year of work in order to even be competitive again. When's the last time a team won a Cup with a core of 34-35 year olds as their cornerstone players? The 2001-02 Red Wings? The game's changed a whole lot since then.

 

[Burn]

Why would Winnipeg trade Laine for Malkin?

Malkins better and it brings them closer to a championship.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Malkin goes if he wants to go. Otherwise, regardless of what you feel about the guy, you send him off his NHL career as a Penguin and don't look like a load of ingrate chumps.

Whatever juice he has left is more valuable here than whatever middling crap you can scrounge up for him at 34 years old. Think, people.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Not saying I want Malkin gone but...

If the Pens are trading Malkin, what are some legit offers. You woukd think that a team that feels they can win within the next 3 years would be interested.

Benn and a 1st

Laine

Having McCann as our 2C would be a fantastic way to throw our hands up and say "Yeah f*** it we didn't want to do anything of significance for the rest of Crosby's career anyway".

 

[billybudd]

I don't understand how anyone who watched the last game could look at the team and not wonder if something was wrong with their mental approach in the here and now.

What "mental approach" would make bad players good, exactly?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Having McCann as our 2C would be a fantastic way to throw our hands up and say "Yeah f*** it we didn't want to do anything of significance for the rest of Crosby's career anyway".

And I mean... I know it's a business but like I implied above it is, at least to me, also a matter of respect as well. True franchise players who stick to the same team their whole career are rare. Would be nice for the Penguins to have 3/4 of their best players of all time go that route. Besides... dude has won this team a ton of hardware both individual and had a major hand in team. But it's all good to dump him wherever shit FINALLY looks like it might hit the fan late in his career. All class, right there. Lord knows when things got rough for Geno years back he just demanded a trade, right? Took the easy way out?

What "mental approach" would make bad players good, exactly?

Yeah I don't think they weren't willing. I didn't see a lack of workrate. I saw a huge lack of confidence and a bunch of defeated body language.

 

[theicebox]

Keep Malkin. Ban the posters who suggest trading him.

 

[chethejet]

A rebuild and trading Malkin comes down to getting the number 1 pick. Then the Pens can package assets with that to really restructure the farm and potential infusion of needed younger up and comers. For sure moves are Murray and JJ. let the UFA's go and create cap room Not sure Horny can be productive enough to justify that number. Nashville may be a trade partner. In any event nothing is off the table for changes to the franchise but the facts are the brass and coaching bet on stars who are not able to deliver like before. If Sully is willing to use size and grit for balance to the roster fine. GMJR has to go since he has shown he can't find that balance.

 

[Peat]

Yeah, that's true too. I don't know, but again, the regular season is a whole different animal. I know we won without Letang in 2017, but I feel like that was a crazy anomaly, and the blueline by committee just took their games to an entirely new, unsustainable level.

I feel really hesitant saying "It's worked in three small samples so it'll be fine forever more" but the more samples there are, even regular season, the less 2017 feels like a crazy anomaly.

Yeah I don't think they weren't willing. I didn't see a lack of workrate. I saw a huge lack of confidence and a bunch of defeated body language.

Lack of confidence is still mental. And while I did see that, I also saw a team that were overconfident in Game 3, and unwilling to fight tooth and claw in Game 4.

About the only thing I didn't see was a team comfortable in its own skin tbh. Maybe they overtalked how great a shot this was and let it get in their heads.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I feel really hesitant saying "It's worked in three small samples so it'll be fine forever more" but the more samples there are, even regular season, the less 2017 feels like a crazy anomaly.

I think this team can survive post-Letang. I do not think this team can survive post-Letang without a near-complete overhaul of its blueline.

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

I think this team can survive post-Letang. I do not think this team can survive post-Letang without a near-complete overhaul of its blueline.

Have no fear, Jack Johnson is here!

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

And I mean... I know it's a business but like I implied above it is, at least to me, also a matter of respect as well. True franchise players who stick to the same team their whole career are rare. Would be nice for the Penguins to have 3/4 of their best players of all time go that route. Besides... dude has won this team a ton of hardware both individual and had a major hand in team. But it's all good to dump him wherever shit FINALLY looks like it might hit the fan late in his career. All class, right there. Lord knows when things got rough for Geno years back he just demanded a trade, right? Took the easy way out?



Yeah I don't think they weren't willing. I didn't see a lack of workrate. I saw a huge lack of confidence and a bunch of defeated body language.

100%. Not only do I believe that the rumours of Malkin's demise are greatly exaggerated (to put it mildly), but to jettison him at this point would be both cowardly and ungrateful.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Many underestimate the positive impact of removing the dogshit duo of JJ and Schultz and replacing them with Riikola/POJ and Ruhwedel next year.

That's the bare minimum that would require no big additions, but it would help the team immeasurably.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

As much as I love Geno, from the crazy middle of the night saga of his disappearance from the Russian team to suddenly showing up in LA training with NHLers, through his Conn Smythe in 09, etc., I'm still a Penguins fan. If Geno is open to a trade and it helps kickstart a mini rebuild, so be it.

I'd prefer him to retire a Penguin, but I'd also prefer this team not toil away like the Kings or Wings for the last several years of his contract, and maybe NHL career. If trading him is the best option for both parties, go for it.

I don't know what we'd get for Geno if he wanted a trade (and that's the only way it'll happen, is if he wants to win one more Cup on a team much closer to contention than we are), but I know it wouldn't be the king's ransom of years past. That doesn't necessarily mean it'll be a pittance either.

I think there's arguments to be made on both sides. He's obviously still talented enough to help a team win, but he's also 34 and on a team several significant moves away from even being considered a legitimate competitor again, let alone Cup favorite.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

100%. Not only do I believe that the rumours of Malkin's demise are greatly exaggerated (to put it mildly), but to jettison him at this point would be both cowardly and ungrateful.

Oh I mean... I think he's mostly done for. This core is, in general. It's nothing personal against Malkin. Especially since they will for sure keep Sullivan and JR. It's over.

But WTF is the point? If he wants to stay... he stays. Bite the bullet and go through some bad times with the guy. If he wants to stick around for them and retire a Penguin while maybe doing as much good as he is capable of... why would I be against that? Next few years are gonna be rough REGARDLESS.

 

[BrookswasHere44]

Dead weight, Sullivan and Letang gone is the minimum I think. Malkin goes nowhere ever.

 

[Sideline]

Many underestimate the positive impact of removing the dogshit duo of JJ and Schultz and replacing them with Riikola/POJ and Ruhwedel next year.

That's the bare minimum that would require no big additions, but it would help the team immeasurably.

If you run with Jarry as starter and dump JJ & Bjugs that leaves a lot of cap flexibility to bring in a legit second pair guy.

 

[Peat]

100%. Not only do I believe that the rumours of Malkin's demise are greatly exaggerated (to put it mildly), but to jettison him at this point would be both cowardly and ungrateful.

Piffle and poppycock. A guy with the league's best 5v5 p/60 and a top 5 ppg finish is clearly done.


I don't see any reason to dignify Malkin trade ideas unless one of the team or the player indicates interest. Not even for funsies.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

If you run with Jarry as starter and dump JJ & Bjugs that leaves a lot of cap flexibility to bring in a legit second pair guy.

I believe MP is a legit 2nd pair guy - and haven't seen much compelling evidence otherwise - but the moves you suggest open up some space for whatever improvements we want to make on d or up front, so definitely with you there.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Oh I mean... I think he's mostly done for. This core is, in general. It's nothing personal against Malkin. Especially since they will for sure keep Sullivan and JR. It's over.

But WTF is the point? If he wants to stay... he stays. Bite the bullet and go through some bad times with the guy. If he wants to stick around for them and retire a Penguin while maybe doing as much good as he is capable of... why would I be against that? Next few years are gonna be rough REGARDLESS.

I don't think it necessarily has to be like that if JR can take Sullivan's toys away and not be a complete lunatic with the cap space that gets opened up (asking a lot, I know), but yeah, even if things go south Malkin is a player I want to see retire a Penguin no matter what. He's a legend.

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

Many underestimate the positive impact of removing the dogshit duo of JJ and Schultz and replacing them with Riikola/POJ and Ruhwedel next year.

That's the bare minimum that would require no big additions, but it would help the team immeasurably.

Assuming he doesn't give JR and Sully the finger and go back to Finland for more money and playing time and not get road blocked by a certain Jack Johnson who shall remain nameless.