Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap: The Trades We'd Make Before The Play Offs

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I don't think it necessarily has to be like that if JR can take Sullivan's toys away and not be a complete lunatic with the cap space that gets opened up (asking a lot, I know), but yeah, even if things go south Malkin is a player I want to see retire a Penguin no matter what. He's a legend.

If Sullivan and JR stick around, JJ and the entire horseshit brigade sticks around. Done.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Piffle and poppycock. A guy with the league's best 5v5 p/60 and a top 5 ppg finish is clearly done.


I don't see any reason to dignify Malkin trade ideas unless one of the team or the player indicates interest. Not even for funsies.

Guentzel and Rust was such a nice balance for Malkin, especially when Crosby was out and he got the best blueline pairings behind him. Zucker and Rust just kind of seems like a little too much of the same thing for Malkin, with no time to establish chemistry either.

I wish we'd have run with G-M-R and let Sid sort out the rest for once.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

If Sullivan and JR stick around, JJ and the entire horseshit brigade sticks around. Done.

You may be right.

I have to hope that JR gets his head partially out of his ass and does whatever he has to in order for us to get JJ the hell out of here. There has to be some heat on him after the last 2 flameouts.

 

[Peat]

Assuming he doesn't give JR and Sully the finger and go back to Finland for money money and playing time and not get road blocked by a certain Jack Johnson who shall remain nameless.

Dude doesn't get more money in Finland. He probably gets about a 1/5 as much. If Riikola wants out, he'd ask to be traded to another team.

Guentzel and Rust was such a nice balance for Malkin, especially when Crosby was out and he got the best blueline pairings behind him. Zucker and Rust just kind of seems like a little too much of the same thing for Malkin, with no time to establish chemistry either.

I wish we'd have run with G-M-R and let Sid sort out the rest for once.

I get why they did it and honestly with better puck luck I think it works, but GMR with Sid getting his regular season line of Zucker and Sheary should have been option 2.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

You may be right.

I have to hope that JR gets his head partially out of his ass and does whatever he has to in order for us to get JJ the hell out of here. There has to be some heat on him after the last 2 flameouts.

This kind of heat only makes morons like JR dig in deeper.

This is the era of double, triple and quadrupling down on your own stupidity so that you can "win" after all.

Then there is still Sullivan doing his very best Disco Dan impression. "Taking away toys" is simply a temporary solution. The dipshit mentality of the coach who has toys in the first place remains.

If they don't clean out behind the bench and in the FO this is all just window dressing, regardless.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

This kind of heat only makes morons like JR dig in deeper.

This is the era of double, triple and quadrupling down on your own stupidity so that you can "win" after all.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Hahaha... pretty much!

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Hahaha... pretty much!

I think we all feel like that right now haha

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url...ved=0CAIQjRxqFwoTCIDJnNK4jusCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD





https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url...ved=0CAIQjRxqFwoTCIDJnNK4jusCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAf



https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url...ved=0CAIQjRxqFwoTCIDJnNK4jusCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAm
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url...ved=0CAIQjRxqFwoTCIDJnNK4jusCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAf

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I think we all feel like that right now haha

I dunno. I'm pissed that they basically just punted on probably the best opportunity they are going to get in this era. But it was hardly that surprising. I WAS pretty excited about the roster leading up to that but after watching the first game I was like "Oh that's right these guys are a bunch of ill-fitting, disorganized paper tigers."

For now, I'm probably also being a bit rough on the core's chances of still being any good and that's likely to change. The rest I'm more or less set on -- they grow some balls and do meaningful housecleaning... including the FO and bench staff... or suffer more embarrassment. This is no different than years ago. Don't drag your feet this time... can't afford to.

These guys behind the bench and upstairs aren't going to "learn their lesson." This is the Skinner meme... THEY aren't wrong... it's the ARMCHAIR GM NERDS that are wrong!

 

[sovietsanta87]

For a player his stature and position, some might view Byfield’s lack of willingness to engage physically as an negative aspect.

There are always going to be the comparisons to Getzlaf or Thornton, but Sudbury alumnus Eric Staal is probably the best example from the type of my mind. Both are big centremen that can create plays and burry the puck in the net; they will never be mistaken for power-forwards.

The race argument is a complete non-sequitur. How anyone can make that argument is completely ludicrous without any evidence.

Because in 2020 that is the basis of everything.

 

[sovietsanta87]

Wasnt Rutherford trying to trade JJ earlier this year? Or did i dream that?

 

[Empoleon8771]

For a player his stature and position, some might view Byfield’s lack of willingness to engage physically as an negative aspect.

There are always going to be the comparisons to Getzlaf or Thornton, but Sudbury alumnus Eric Staal is probably the best example from the type of my mind. Both are big centremen that can create plays and burry the puck in the net; they will never be mistaken for power-forwards.

The race argument is a complete non-sequitur. How anyone can make that argument is completely ludicrous without any evidence.

Yeah you're right, racial biases totally don't exist. You hit the nail on the head.

Like Jesus, are you serious? Racial biases completely exist and they can positively or negatively impact your perception of someone. That's not "people are racist towards Byfield", it's that everyone has biases that influence their evaluation of people. It's called implicit bias.

How implicit bias can affect workplace diversity | Diversity in Practice

It's not just racial, it can be gender, age, background and history too.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Wasnt Rutherford trying to trade JJ earlier this year? Or did i dream that?

They make some hopeful noises here and there, at least in the rumor mill, but then usually some story or brief interview will come out and it'll be some garbage about how "Trading Jack Johnson at a loss is unacceptable. We will take our chances on a good player. WE know why he was scratched in Columbus... Blahblahblahblah."

 

[Peat]

Wasnt Rutherford trying to trade JJ earlier this year? Or did i dream that?

Yes. But he was stubborn because people didn't want to pay his price.

Then Marino emerged out of nowhere and Gentleman Jim goes "Aha! I can trade Gudbranson to get under the cap and play this kid instead!"

Which was mostly good but bad where it resulted in JJ staying.

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

Wasnt Rutherford trying to trade JJ earlier this year? Or did i dream that?

Yep, Him and Kessel would have gone to the Wild over the summer for Zucker and Victor Rask, until Phil refused to go to Minnesota.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Remember when Calder-caliber Marino got stuck with JJ for a while and everyone was all like "JJ IZ GUD NAH!"

 

[sovietsanta87]

This team still has one more cup run in it but the load needs to be taken off of malkin and crosby. That means not striking out on SO many free agents.

Johnson
Bjugstad
McCann
Schultz
Sheary
Simon

Get rid of them.

It would have to be a quick turnaround but there is still time. I could see Crosby/Malkin in the Zetterberg/Datsyuk roles. Hornqvist plays Holmstrom.

OR

The window has closed. If that is the case, i still keep Malkin until he retires. Crosby and Malkin are a major reason why we still have a team and fulfilled their potential by winning 3 stanley cups/ conn smythes and multiple MVP's. They deserve to be here until theyre done playing.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

This team still has one more cup run in it but the load needs to be taken off of malkin and crosby. That means not striking out on SO many free agents.

Johnson
Bjugstad
McCann
Schultz
Sheary
Simon

Get rid of them.

It would have to be a quick turnaround but there is still time. I could see Crosby/Malkin in the Zetterberg/Datsyuk roles. Hornqvist plays Holmstrom.

OR

The window has closed. If that is the case, i still keep Malkin until he retires. Crosby and Malkin are a major reason why we still have a team and fulfilled their potential by winning 3 stanley cups/ conn smythes and multiple MVP's. They deserve to be here until theyre done playing.

Datsyuk and Zetterberg were 27 and 29 when they last won in 2008. Sid and Geno are 33 and 34 respectively. Just to clarify.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

They are keeping Sullivan/JR. So the window is for sure closed.

That doesn't mean the core "sucks" just that time is undefeated and we're out of it.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

They are keeping Sullivan/JR. So the window is for sure closed.

That doesn't mean the core "sucks" just that time is undefeated and we're out of it.

We can win with a 34 year old core. We just need a stellar supporting cast and a team with very few flaws. This is not anywhere close to that kind of roster, sadly, and even if we make all the right moves and they all turn out well, it'll still be another year before we're in a position to go deep again.

It happens. As you say, time is undefeated.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

We can win with a 34 year old core. We just need a stellar supporting cast and a team with very few flaws. This is not anywhere close to that kind of roster, sadly, and even if we make all the right moves and they all turn out well, it'll still be another year before we're in a position to go deep again.

It happens. As you say, time is undefeated.

Certainly! Crosby and Malkin aren't "done" as players. That's not what I mean. But like you imply... WHO is going to do that rebuild? JR and Sullivan? Nah.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Certainly! Crosby and Malkin aren't "done" as players. That's not what I mean. But like you imply... WHO is going to do that rebuild? JR and Sullivan? Nah.

Agreed entirely. I think Sully's issue is that he misuses certain players, but the big issue is that JR has created a roster full of holes and bland, do-nothing players. JR absolutely has got to go first and foremost if this team wants to even begin to fix things. If Sully has to go as well, fine, whatever, there are other options out there. But JR is absolutely the first domino that has to fall if we're serious about trying to win another Cup, and we're not just content circling the drain until we're at the bottom like the Kings and Wings.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Analytics only go back to 2007-2008, but Holmstrom was a fine producer with terrific analytics at 35, a great producer with good analytics at 36 and maintained those analytics but with massively decreasing production after 36. If you think Hornqvist is going to age the exact same as Holmstrom, Hornqvist has like 3 more years of being an effective player before his production falls off a cliff at ES.

But I don't think Hornqvist at 34 is the same at Holmstrom at 34, though. Hornqvist in the last 2 years from age 32-33 is more like Holmstrom from age 34-35. Hornqvist in the last 2 years has a 1.89 5v5 points/60 with a +2.63% xGF% relTM. Holmstrom from 2007-2009 was at 1.95 5v5 points/60 with a +6.96% xGF% relTM. Holmstrom fell off a cliff with his production after 2009, where he went from 1.95 in 07-09 to 1.51 in 09-10 to 1.21 in 10-11 to 0.75 in 11-12. His analytics stayed good (outside of 11-12, where he was totally done as a player), but his production completely slipped.

The point I'm making here is trade Hornqvist before you can't trade him anymore. Kessel last season was moved for the same reason, he's a ticking time bomb for when he falls off a cliff and you don't want to be holding it when it goes off. Hornqvist has at most 1-3 years left of being a solid contributor, and considering he doesn't fit in the top-6 and Sullivan isn't married to him being on the top powerplay unit, I genuinely see no reason to keep him.

Edit: to add, Hornqvist went the same route that Kunitz did. Kunitz's production started slipping in 2014-2015, when he was 35. He stayed an effective top-6 player (albeit overplayed) for 2 years, but then fell into a bottom-6 player. If you want to apply that standard to Hornqvist, it's the same 1-3 years.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Agreed entirely. I think Sully's issue is that he misuses certain players, but the big issue is that JR has created a roster full of holes and bland, do-nothing players. JR absolutely has got to go first and foremost if this team wants to even begin to fix things. If Sully has to go as well, fine, whatever, there are other options out there. But JR is absolutely the first domino that has to fall if we're serious about trying to win another Cup, and we're not just content circling the drain until we're at the bottom like the Kings and Wings.

At this point I see them as two gnarly boils on the same ass. But your rationale makes sense. GM will have the biggest job ahead. But whatever that individual does... Sullivan will be there to find a way to get too cute and too stubborn with it.

JR shoulda retired when he said he was going to...