Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap: The Trades We'd Make Before The Play Offs

[Sidney the Kidney]

for picks 3&5 i would do it.

Like I said, that's crazy talk.

 

[SEALBound]

It's really tough to get a handle on what they "might do" if they bonk tomorrow (or Saturday). I can certainly see changes coming but I just have no idea what that is. I can't imagine there wouldn't be a meeting between JR, Mario, and Burkle. Do you try to extend the window with now players, extend the window with younger players with a bit more risk, or do you start building for tomorrow. I guess it would depend on the 1OV pick. You get that, I think you start your "tomorrow" building now.

So let's lay some things out first:

When I look at the roster, both old, young, and prospects, I am still back and forth on what we need. We technically, when you break it down, need it "all". Giving up Addison right now is really sticking me in the side. I get why we did and Zucker is a fantastic player, but when looking 2-3 years down the road I cringe a bit. We'd all like another RW for Sid, a new 3C, a young PMD. I think those are our biggest areas of need in the nearest future. But then you have to start considering a new top 6 center for when Sid and Geno begin to slow down. Unless you surround each of them with premium wings who can drive the play, I think you need to look to make a line like: Jake-Sid-Malkin in the coming years. That would assume you have a 2C and a set of wings that can drive the play the way a 2nd line should.

I like our wings. Jake, Zucker, Rust, Poulin should be a quality set of wings until Zucker's contract expires. With that, we also have Legare and a couple other outside shots like O'Conner, Zohorna, Hallander, etc. Centers...I mean, you have Sid, Geno but they are aging. McCann seems capable and I really do think he can be our long term 3C but I think he's troubled by not playing with guys that match his style. Marleau and Horny are doing nothing for him at the moment. I don't think Horny is going anywhere so you really need a playmaking LW for the bottom 6. I theory, something like Simon-McCann-Horny should do well but I have doubts. I thinking Poulin-McCann-Horny could be a good line if Poulin makes it.

Bottom 6 is the bottom 6 and I think we should always be able to pull a good one together, especially with the players we do have and will have. I don't see much reason to part with BART to be quite honest. I think it's effective enough. That said, you mix and match pretty easy.

That brings us to the defense. Letang is Letang. There are pros and cons and I'm not sure what to do with him if we lose. Dumoulin is who I worry about. Dumo now is not the Dumo is the beginning of the season. That worries me. A lot. He was our steady hand #2 and now...he's not. He's still a top 4 dman but he's more of a 3/4 now. I hope the off season is kind to him. Pettersson is a 4/5...I don't always like what I see from him but...I don't think he's going anywhere. Marino is what we need. We need more Marinos. Young, speedy, smooth skating, PMD. I put that as the top need for us currently. I'm hoping POJ fills that role for us but I think we need one more. That could be a Riikola or Rudwedel but...I think trade talks this year should involve a pick or prospect targetted at filling a PMD role in 2-3 years.

We have lots of players...I don't think anyone outside of Sid, Geno, Jake, and Marino are safe. One thing is for sure, we have to trend back to the Marinos and Rusts of the world and not the Hornys and Marleaus. Marleau was a flat out mistake.

 

[SEALBound]

Assumption: Lose to Montreal and get 1 OV...because I'm a dreaming POS.

Letang to Winnipeg for Poink+2nd
Murray to Colorado for Zadorov+Grubauer

Jake-Sid-Lafreniere
Zucker-Malkin-Rust
Poulin-McCann-Horny
ZAR-Blueger-Tanev

Dumoulin-Marino
Pettersson-Pionk
Zadorov-POJ

Jarry-Grubauer

Other trade ideas for that 1OV:

1OV+JJ to Ott for 3rd and 5th OV

1OV+JJ to NJD for 7thOV + Will Butcher + High end prospect like Foote

 

[SEALBound]

New wisdom from the trade boards, apparently RFA rights don't have a lot of value anymore. Despite the fact that literally every off-season has valuable RFAs traded for good returns, like Trouba, Burakovsky, Lindholm, Hanifin, Domi, Grubauer and Saad. RFA rights apparently don't have a lot of value

MY team's RFA rights are valuable. YOUR team's RFA rights are NOT valuable.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Assumption: Lose to Montreal and get 1 OV...because I'm a dreaming POS.

Letang to Winnipeg for Poink+2nd
Murray to Colorado for Zadorov+Grubauer

Jake-Sid-Lafreniere
Zucker-Malkin-Rust
Poulin-McCann-Horny
ZAR-Blueger-Tanev

Dumoulin-Marino
Pettersson-Pionk
Zadorov-POJ

Jarry-Grubauer

Other trade ideas for that 1OV:

1OV+JJ to Ott for 3rd and 5th OV

1OV+JJ to NJD for 7thOV + Will Butcher + High end prospect like Foote

I had some chats on the Winnipeg board. They certainly don't have interest in Letang for Poink.

I know you said you're dreaming and I know his name is Pionk.

 

[SEALBound]

I had some chats on the Winnipeg board. They certainly don't have interest in Letang for Poink.

I know you said you're dreaming and I know his name is Pionk.

It's an odd question...what teams need a #1 capable PMD like Letang?

 

[Randy Butternubs]

It's an odd question...what teams need a #1 capable PMD like Letang?

The Pens.

His age, remaining contract, and past health concerns are likely limiting teams that'd be interested in him. Calgary, Edmonton, Anaheim, Detroit, and Ottawa are the teams I see having some interest in him.

But Letang has a NTC: "Lists 18 teams he can be traded to"

And, as per Phil Kessel, we know players can structure an NTC in ways they can really narrow down that list.

Kris would likely list all the teams in the Metro, which I can't imagine GMJR would oblige. He could also then list teams with high cap situations. And also list teams that are set on the top two right defense.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think people have made too big of a deal out of players structuring their NTCs to make themselves untradeable. That never used to be a concern, then Kessel did it in 2015 (not in 2019 though) and now that means every player is going to do it.

I could see Letang setting up his NTC to try and push himself to go to Montreal, because that's one team I think he wants to play for, but a 12 team NTC isn't going to turn into a full NTC. I think he's a guy that's way more likely to just have bad teams and undesirable locations on his NTC.

 

[Peat]

That brings us to the defense. Letang is Letang. There are pros and cons and I'm not sure what to do with him if we lose.

If things end like this, then I think what to do with Letang becomes the feel-bad hit of the summer here.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

I could see Letang setting up his NTC to try and push himself to go to Montreal, because that's one team I think he wants to play for, but a 12 team NTC isn't going to turn into a full NTC. I think he's a guy that's way more likely to just have bad teams and undesirable locations on his NTC.

True. I was just trying to set up his "yes" and "no" list. Montreal is very likely on his "yes" list, but they've got both Weber and Petry on RD. I sure as shit hope Weber isn't traded for Letang. And Petry has a NTC, of which I have no clue if he'd wave to come to PGH.

 

[SEALBound]

The Pens.

His age, remaining contract, and past health concerns are likely limiting teams that'd be interested in him. Calgary, Edmonton, Anaheim, Detroit, and Ottawa are the teams I see having some interest in him.

But Letang has a NTC: "Lists 18 teams he can be traded to"

And, as per Phil Kessel, we know players can structure an NTC in ways they can really narrow down that list.

Kris would likely list all the teams in the Metro, which I can't imagine GMJR would oblige. He could also then list teams with high cap situations. And also list teams that are set on the top two right defense.

Lol, indeed.

Like I said, it will tough to determine the route management wants to take but, like anything it will depend on tomorrow or saturday and then ultimately, what Aug 10th brings if Aug 7th or 8th does not go well.

Loss on 8/7 and a big win on 8/10 solves A LOT of problems for us IMHO. Or rather it opens up a lot of interesting options.

 

[Gurglesons]

Man, the Letang trades have certainly gotten even more desperate around here.

We are trading Kris Letang for f***ing PIONK lol.

Who exactly is playing defensive minutes then?

 

[DesertPenguin]

Should the Pens actually get the first overall pick, I'm sure they'd receive plenty of interesting offers. Right now I'd only consider offers from LA, Ottawa, and Detroit given who the top 5 are in the draft (and this is because I have only looked at those teams' prospect pools, and not teams such as Buffalo).

For LA, I'd consider the first overall for the second if they were to include one of their top expansion draft exempt prospects and perhaps another pick (Turcotte or Kupari perhaps? Vilardi is interesting too but has had injury/back issues). I'd then draft Byfield.

For Ottawa, I'd consider the first for the third and fifth overall. I think I'd also try to get the 21st overall. Like mentioned above, I think I'd also try to get them to take JJ. Assuming LA drafts Byfield, I'd then take Stutzle. I'm unsure of who Detroit would take at 4, but then I'd take Drysdale, Raymond, or Rossi at 5 in that order of preference. If the Sens wouldn't give up the 21st as well, I'd like to acquire Brannstrom. Actually, I'd prefer a higher end prospect as opposed to the 21st.

For Detroit, I'd want their fourth overall, their 2021 1st, Zadina, and something else of significant note. Veleno is intriguing.


I can tell I'm aiming big, but I have no clue how much other teams would value Lafreniere.

Edit: changed some of my language as I think I'd still hold on to the 1st overall

If I ever see the name Rossi on the back of a Pens jersey, I am done.

 

[Gurglesons]

Assumption: Lose to Montreal and get 1 OV...because I'm a dreaming POS.

Letang to Winnipeg for Poink+2nd
Murray to Colorado for Zadorov+Grubauer

Jake-Sid-Lafreniere
Zucker-Malkin-Rust
Poulin-McCann-Horny
ZAR-Blueger-Tanev

Dumoulin-Marino
Pettersson-Pionk
Zadorov-POJ

Jarry-Grubauer

Other trade ideas for that 1OV:

1OV+JJ to Ott for 3rd and 5th OV

1OV+JJ to NJD for 7thOV + Will Butcher + High end prospect like Foote

This defense is f***ing awful. We are moving JJ to basically get JJ in Zadorov why?

The bottom two pairings look like Chicago's. Which means we miss the playoffs.

 

[SEALBound]

I think people have made too big of a deal out of players structuring their NTCs to make themselves untradeable. That never used to be a concern, then Kessel did it in 2015 (not in 2019 though) and now that means every player is going to do it.

I could see Letang setting up his NTC to try and push himself to go to Montreal, because that's one team I think he wants to play for, but a 12 team NTC isn't going to turn into a full NTC. I think he's a guy that's way more likely to just have bad teams and undesirable locations on his NTC.

There's certainly more flexibility with Letang's NTC than Kessel's. That said, I think the relationship between JR and Letang is better than Phils and, though I do like Phil, I don't think Letang is as much of a prick as Phil when it comes to this either. If it's JR intent to shop him, he will either shop then present Kris with the options, or ask Kris for preferences and explore those avenues.

Montreal is a good option but with Weber there, it's tough to see them spending the cheddar on two #1s. Montreal could take the full 7.25 but I doubt they would and I have a hard time putting together a trade for us that makes sense for both sides.

If things end like this, then I think what to do with Letang becomes the feel-bad hit of the summer here.

Not unlike Kessel in summers past. There's always that one question out there every summer. The only good thing is there won't be 3 months of 40+ page threads saying "ZOMG JJ is sooo bad!". I mean, there will be threads but in a shorter time frame.

 

[SEALBound]

This defense is f***ing awful. We are moving JJ to basically get JJ in Zadorov why?

If you think JJ is the same as Zadorov, the conversation is not worth having because we are already too far apart and you won't be letting facts get in your way.

Being in the Rocky Mountain region, I watch a lot of the Avs. I like Zadorov.

 

[Malkinstheman]

Trading a 33 year old Letang isn’t gonna have much of an effect tbh. It won’t even be a lateral move, imo we lose that trade easily. Get rid of as much junk as possible and insert young players. I’m confident the team can still be a contender with the big 3

 

[Gurglesons]

If you think JJ is the same as Zadorov, the conversation is not worth having because we are already too far apart and you won't be letting facts get in your way.

Being in the Rocky Mountain region, I watch a lot of the Avs. I like Zadorov.

Zadorov is f***ing awful. He's a big body who gets beat all the time that is living on his draft pedigree.

 

[Peat]

The obvious partner - if Letang would agree to it - imo is Buffalo. I know they're loaded for RD, but they lack a top pairing guy, are desperate to win, have Dahlin and Jokiharju as their future so need mentors more than long term options, and have a crap top of cap space. Letang for Montour or Ristolainen with an add seems a potential conversation starter about the size of the add.

I know a lot of people will hate this and consider it insane considering the player Letang's been for us. I'm not sure I disagree. But it opens up some options for a team built more on depth than rolling the dice on ageing star power.

 

[Gurglesons]

The obvious partner - if Letang would agree to it - imo is Buffalo. I know they're loaded for RD, but they lack a top pairing guy, are desperate to win, have Dahlin and Jokiharju as their future so need mentors more than long term options, and have a crap top of cap space. Letang for Montour or Ristolainen with an add seems a potential conversation starter about the size of the add.

I know a lot of people will hate this and consider it insane considering the player Letang's been for us. I'm not sure I disagree. But it opens up some options for a team built more on depth than rolling the dice on ageing star power.

It opens up the team looking like f***ing idiots like Hammer for Connor Murphy.

Moving Letang after he is still proving he is this team's best defenseman would be asinine and Montour and Risto don't even save us cap room that is worth it.

An overreaction trade like that is going to be the death kneel for this team.

 

[SEALBound]

Zadorov is f***ing awful. He's a big body who gets beat all the time that is living on his draft pedigree.

Thank you for your concern. We have a lot of dmen that get beat all the time.

I don't think being the 16thOV from 7 years ago is exactly "living on your draft pedigree" but okay.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The obvious partner - if Letang would agree to it - imo is Buffalo. I know they're loaded for RD, but they lack a top pairing guy, are desperate to win, have Dahlin and Jokiharju as their future so need mentors more than long term options, and have a crap top of cap space. Letang for Montour or Ristolainen with an add seems a potential conversation starter about the size of the add.

I know a lot of people will hate this and consider it insane considering the player Letang's been for us. I'm not sure I disagree. But it opens up some options for a team built more on depth than rolling the dice on ageing star power.

I said Letang for Ristolainen made a lot of sense for JR to do last night and I stand by it. The Penguins would get more back of course, but I'm not sure how else you'd complete that deal.

I have genuinely no clue how that deal would turn out, but it will either be great or terrible. There is no in between, that deal is an all or nothing gamble. You either get Dion Phaneuf 2.0 and you get the PPQB you've lack since Gonchar, or you get Jack Johnson 2.0 and close any window that may remain with this core. I will say that I'm really intrigued with a Pettersson-Ristolainen pair, but trading Letang to see that is insanely risky.

 

[Gurglesons]

Thank you for your concern. We have a lot of dmen that get beat all the time.

I don't think being the 16thOV from 7 years ago is exactly "living on your draft pedigree" but okay.

K dog. We should get the guy who is being benched and healthy scratched cos "you watch him" then.

Worked out great for JJ who was being benched and healthy scratched as well..

 

[Gurglesons]

I said Letang for Ristolainen made a lot of sense for JR to do last night and I stand by it. The Penguins would get more back of course, but I'm not sure how else you'd complete that deal.

I have genuinely no clue how that deal would turn out, but it will either be great or terrible. There is no in between, that deal is an all or nothing gamble. You either get Dion Phaneuf 2.0 and you get the PPQB you've lack since Gonchar, or you get Jack Johnson 2.0 and close any window that may remain with this core. I will say that I'm really intrigued with a Pettersson-Ristolainen pair, but trading Letang to see that is insanely risky.

Why would the Pens get more back though? If the Pens are moving Letang he ain't returning a lot at this point.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Why would the Pens get more back though? If the Pens are moving Letang he ain't returning a lot at this point.

Because while you can point out things that hurt Letang's value, you can also point out things that hurt Ristolainen's value.

This isn't Weber for Subban or something like that, it's Weber for an obviously worse but younger defenseman. Maybe something like Ristolainen and pick #8 for Letang and pick #15 or something like that.