Big McLargehuge
Fragile Traveler
Was this intentional? Because if not, I find it funny considering they're on the same team in Sweden now
Hah, that's awesome. Of course they are.
Was this intentional? Because if not, I find it funny considering they're on the same team in Sweden now
He was compared to those players for a reason, and it wasn't because his best case scenario was a 3rd liner.
I mean, the words around him is that his best case scenario is a 3rd liner.
“My opinion is he projects as a bottom-six forward in the NHL, which is shared by a poll of NHL scouts now and at the time of his draft. “ Pronman on him after the trade.
A projection is not a best case scenario. It's a most likely scenario.
Are we talking about what his best potential is now or what it was around his draft?
That's moot IMO. His trajectory didn't change. He hasn't overperformed or underperformed.
That's not true. He was drafted as a center and has predominately played wing in the SHL. He has seen his offense level off versus a upwards trajectory and he likely won't be playing in the NHL until 21-22 at the earliest.
No one I trust in terms of prospect writers has said Hallander is going to be a top six forward, really ever. I think you overrating Hallander to say he has the skill set to be a top six forward even in a best case scenario. High end projections I've seen place him in the Hagelin camp who was not a top six winger on a contender if we are going to say Kapanen isn't a top six winger on a contender.
Hagelin routinely played top six on a contender for us. I don't think he's as talented as Kapanen is, but Hagelin exactly understood his role and had very strong attributes in a few areas that made him very good at it, and he could be part of contender top sixes. The question is whether Kapanen can understand his role and contribute to a top six (if he does understand his role, he'll be better), showing he was not used to his full potential in Toronto, or whether he can't, in which case he's a skilled third liner or top six on a bad team.
That's not true. He was drafted as a center and has predominately played wing in the SHL. He has seen his offense level off versus a upwards trajectory and he likely won't be playing in the NHL until 21-22 at the earliest.
No one I trust in terms of prospect writers has said Hallander is going to be a top six forward, really ever. I think you overrating Hallander to say he has the skill set to be a top six forward even in a best case scenario. High end projections I've seen place him in the Hagelin camp who was not a top six winger on a contender if we are going to say Kapanen isn't a top six winger on a contender.
Hallander's SHL pace was fine. He improved his pace in '19-'20 despite coming back from long-term injury.
Hagelin was clearly a complementary top 6 winger on a contender. Kapanen's a very good player but he hasn't shown he can complement star players the way Hagelin did, which is of course one of the main bones of contention.
No, he didn't. Unless you are considering the 17-18 team a contender.
He spent 600+ 5v5 minutes with Geno and Sid in the regular season for the back to back seasons and would have spent more in the post-season if we weren't conserving an extremely successful third line one season (at the top six's expense) and he wasn't injured the other. As far as I'm concerned, that qualifies - I straight up have no time for only post-season mattering.
Fair. But his 5v5 numbers are largely a mirage given how Sheary, Jake and Rust quintessential pieces of both runs (Sheary in 15-16, Jake in 16-17) were forced to earn their minutes.
Hags has never been a complementary top six winger on a championship squad.
I'd argue NYR fans complained the same way they did about Hags as Toronto fans did Kapanen.
Revisiting the Hagelin/Etem trade. Reads word for word tbh like the Kapanen trade and I'd argue Etem had more value at that point than Hallander to kind of offset the value of the pick.
Who said he was? Why has the "championship" caveat been added here?
That's great, but it doesn't change that Hagelin became a complementary top 6 forward in Pittsburgh.
Do you mean he got more minutes in the top 6 than he deserved because the kids had to go prove themselves in the bottom 6?
Because if so, then that's a fair comment - but I also think it's fair comment that Hagelin more than proved he could handle those minutes, and the promotions of the kids in the post-season were about team selection decisions outside of Hagelin's individual comment. I generally believe one of the defining factors of those seasons (and probably 17-18 too) was having six wings who were completely trustworthy in top six roles, and the depth and flexibility that came with it (even if not all of them were conventional top six talents).
I'd also add that it seems like we're all very tightly clustered over our assessment of Hallander (probably because we're all working from the same limited number of scouting reports and highlights), and that the majority of this debate seems to be about the murky definitions of two-way forwards between clear fourth liners and clear conventional top six talents.
Just like Sheary then right?
Hagelin's problem was that he couldn't finish, not that he made his teammates worse. Kapanen is way more skilled than Hagelin, he's just got total tunnel vision and doesn't use his teammates effectively. When Kap's on the ice, he takes the puck away from everyone else and doesn't do enough with it for a top 6 role. Hagelin at least can fetch pucks and get out of the way.
Hagelin's problem was that he couldn't finish, not that he made his teammates worse. Kapanen is way more skilled than Hagelin, he's just got total tunnel vision and doesn't use his teammates effectively. When Kap's on the ice, he takes the puck away from everyone else and doesn't do enough with it for a top 6 role. Hagelin at least can fetch pucks and get out of the way.