Prospect Info: Pittsburgh Penguins Prospect Discussion

[WheresRamziAbid]

The issue isn't that he was sent down in this current situation. We all get waivers. The issue is that we got into a situation where we had to send him down. We came into this season with one too many vet d-men.

1. No such thing as too manyvet D-Men
2. Worst case senario is that Despres has more time to develop. IS that really that egregious of a problem. Despres not playing this year is not going to be the difference in this team winning or losing but it could be the difference between Despres being an All-Star level defenseman or the next Ryan Whitney.

 

[MrBurghundy]

There is a 0% chance Despres is the next Ryan Whitney.

 

[JTG]

I have no problem with the Scuderi signing if Orpik is let go this offseason.

 

[Ogrezilla]

1. No such thing as too manyvet D-Men

When superior players are forced out of the line-up so that inferior players get to play every night, you have too many vet d-men.

2. Worst case senario is that Despres has more time to develop. IS that really that egregious of a problem. Despres not playing this year is not going to be the difference in this team winning or losing but it could be the difference between Despres being an All-Star level defenseman or the next Ryan Whitney.

Worst case scenario, we sell low on Despres to bring back either a rental or a mediocre player. Orpik could have brought back a solid forward in the off-season and we would have the roster spot for Despres to be playing. Also, I don't know how you can watch the games this year and think that the difference between Orpik and Despres couldn't be the difference in this team winning or losing.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I have no problem with the Scuderi signing if Orpik is let go this offseason.

this. but if that was never even an option, then the Scuderi signing was bad. I said it before we signed him and I think it still holds true. Signing Scuderi to insulate Letang was the exact opposite of what he needed to develop as a player. He played smarter, more mature hockey with Despres last year. We could have had him in a real leadership and mentor position this season, sort of forcing that maturity onto Letang's game. Instead, we brought in a safety net to allow him to take even more risks and play even sloppier hockey.

TL;DR: Scuderi is a good partner for the version of Letang we want to get rid of. Despres is a good partner for the player we want Letang to become.

 

[MrBurghundy]

I have no problem with the Scuderi signing if Orpik is let go this offseason.

The key word is if. Plus we have NHL ready defenseman in Despres, Bortuzzo, and Dumoulin (in that order) who aren't in the lineup with a healthy roster right now, with Harrington coming soon after. Hell Samuelsson is coming on strong lately too.

That money Scuderi was given would be a lot more useful upgrading our 3rd line.

 

[JTG]

this. but if that was never even an option, then the Scuderi signing was bad. I said it before we signed him and I think it still holds true. Signing Scuderi to insulate Letang was the exact opposite of what he needed to develop as a player. He played smarter, more mature hockey with Despres last year. We could have had him in a real leadership and mentor position this season, sort of forcing that maturity onto Letang's game. Instead, we brought in a safety net to allow him to take even more risks and play even sloppier hockey.

TL;DR: Scuderi is a good partner for the version of Letang we want to get rid of. Despres is a good partner for the player we want Letang to become.

Scuderi or no Scuderi...Letang has played like ****. Who his partner is shouldn't impact the things that are being impacted with him at the current moment. Scuderi isn't keeping Letang from being the player you describe...Letang is keeping Letang from being the player you describe.

Not buying what you're serving up here.

The key word is if. Plus we have NHL ready defenseman in Despres, Bortuzzo, and Dumoulin (in that order) who aren't in the lineup with a healthy roster right now, with Harrington coming soon after. Hell Samuelsson is coming on strong lately too.

That money Scuderi was given would be a lot more useful upgrading our 3rd line.

Despres, Bortuzzo, Dumoulin, Harrington, Pouliot, Samuelsson, or even Oli Maatta are replacing a guy of Scuderi's ilk and experience when games start to matter. Two Cup rings, and being the partner and a big reason why Drew Doughty has developed into a really good hockey player are why Scuderi was brought in.

 

[penguins2946*]

I really hope we have these D pairs next year:

Maatta-Letang
Despres-Martin
Scuderi-Niskanen

That would be awesome. Have Bort as the 7th D. For some reason, Scuderi-Martin reminds me of Michalek-Martin, so I don't want to try that.

 

[tinkezione]

Scuderi or no Scuderi...Letang has played like ****. Who his partner is shouldn't impact the things that are being impacted with him at the current moment. Scuderi isn't keeping Letang from being the player you describe...Letang is keeping Letang from being the player you describe.

This. I don't think anyone in the organization could foresee this deteriorated version of Letang to show up this season and I think his case is one of the biggest headaches in the front office at the moment. At least I want very, very strongly to believe it is, and that it gets somehow addressed. Signing Scuderi was fine for what he brings on the table, but it's also already clear that some vet needs to go at the deadline and I'm hoping it's Orpik.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I really hope we have these D pairs next year:

Maatta-Letang
Despres-Martin
Scuderi-Niskanen

That would be awesome. Have Bort as the 7th D. For some reason, Scuderi-Martin reminds me of Michalek-Martin, so I don't want to try that.

I approve. Scuderi - Niskanen would be an absolutely fantastic 3rd pairing.

 

[Ogrezilla]

This. I don't think anyone in the organization could foresee this deteriorated version of Letang to show up this season and I think his case is one of the biggest headaches in the front office at the moment. At least I want very, very strongly to believe it is, and that it gets somehow addressed. Signing Scuderi was fine for what he brings on the table, but it's also already clear that some vet needs to go at the deadline and I'm hoping it's Orpik.

At this point I will be legitimately surprised if we trade any roster players.

 

[Shrimper]

I have no problem with the Scuderi signing if Orpik is let go this offseason.

How likely is that to happen though?

 

[Ogrezilla]

How likely is that to happen though?

I think very likely. As negative as I am right now, I just don't see us holding on to Orpik. If we do keep him, I will be legitimately distraught.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

There is a 0% chance Despres is the next Ryan Whitney.

Im talking failing to reach full potential not a 1 for 1 comparison, though the do have similarities such as not fully using their size and sometimes being passive. The difference is Whitney was like that all the time. Despres has shown flashes of using his size to his benefit.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Im talking failing to reach full potential not a 1 for 1 comparison, though the do have similarities such as not fully using their size and sometimes being passive. The difference is Whitney was like that all the time. Despres has shown flashes of using his size to his benefit.

Flashes? He has used his size more consistently than anyone on our team this year.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Worst case scenario, we sell low on Despres to bring back either a rental or a mediocre player. Orpik could have brought back a solid forward in the off-season and we would have the roster spot for Despres to be playing. Also, I don't know how you can watch the games this year and think that the difference between Orpik and Despres couldn't be the difference in this team winning or losing

Because i dont have an agenda to push, Despres isnt anywhere near as good as he gets credit for here (though i think he is good and could be great) and Orpik isnt nearly as bad.

If he is traded Despres will not be sold for pennies on the dollar. Nothing has been done this year to drop his value. Anyone who would be sending scouts to watch Despres knows exactly what he can do and if the like him or not. No amount of sitting, AHL demotions or Rob Rossi tweets will change that. Thats the difference in fans value and GM value.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Flashes? He has used his size more consistently than anyone on our team this year.

I think your seeing what you wantto see, and yes he should be using his size FAR more than anyone else because he is bigger than everyone else. For every time he has been agressive and used his size there has been another time where he has been passive or hesitated. And before anyone goes there im not talking about laying people out, im talking about board play and in front of the net.

 

[MrBurghundy]

Despres, Bortuzzo, Dumoulin, Harrington, Pouliot, Samuelsson, or even Oli Maatta are replacing a guy of Scuderi's ilk and experience when games start to matter. Two Cup rings, and being the partner and a big reason why Drew Doughty has developed into a really good hockey player are why Scuderi was brought in.

Well of course they aren't now and we'll never know if that would have been true or not. All I'll say is that teams do in fact win with young players on their roster. There's more than one way to skin a cat. Those young players don't have to be exactly what Scuderi is. Look at Boston last year and how well they did during the playoffs with 3 young defenseman.

Scuderi is a great defenseman... that we absolutely didn't need. We needed and still need help up front a whole hell of a lot more.

 

[MrBurghundy]

Im talking failing to reach full potential not a 1 for 1 comparison, though the do have similarities such as not fully using their size and sometimes being passive. The difference is Whitney was like that all the time. Despres has shown flashes of using his size to his benefit.

The idea that Despres doesn't uses his size is extremely hilarious. Somebody is definitely seeing what they want to see and it isn't us.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I think your seeing what you wantto see, and yes he should be using his size FAR more than anyone else because he is bigger than everyone else. For every time he has been agressive and used his size there has been another time where he has been passive or hesitated. And before anyone goes there im not talking about laying people out, im talking about board play and in front of the net.

Bortuzzo is the only player who may be as good as Despres on the boards or in front of the net this year.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

The idea that Despres doesn't uses his size is extremely hilarious. Somebody is definitely seeing what they want to see and it isn't us.

Sorry i dont have a hard on for the guy, he has at time used his size and when being agressive plays very well, but at other times is passive. Like i said your seeing what you want to see because you have already made up your mind.

And i would play Orpik because i think he is the more talented player but late in a tie playoff game who is likely to be in better position with someone like Ovechkin or Stamkos on the ice? Orpik or Despres? If your answer isnt Orpik you have completely proven my point.

 

[MrBurghundy]

Sorry i dont have a hard on for the guy, he has at time used his size and when being agressive plays very well, but at other times is passive. Like i said your seeing what you want to see because you have already made up your mind.

And i would play Orpik because i think he is the more talented player but late in a tie playoff game who is likely to be in better position with someone like Ovechkin or Stamkos on the ice? Orpik or Despres? If your answer isnt Orpik you have completely proven my point.

No I'm not seeing what I want to see. I'm seeing what's actually happening.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Bortuzzo is the only player who may be as good as Despres on the boards or in front of the net this year.

At times, other times not so much. And thats ok he's 22 and still learning on the job. He's already a legit NHL defenseman, skys the limit no reason to rush it especially when you have other good options.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

No I'm not seeing what I want to see. I'm seeing what's actually happening.

You betcha!

Your biased its ok.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

And i would play Orpik because i think he is the more talented player but late in a tie playoff game who is likely to be in better position with someone like Ovechkin or Stamkos on the ice? Orpik or Despres? If your answer isnt Orpik you have completely proven my point.

I don't know about the rest of it... but this is pure fantasy.

Say what you want about Despres... but his talent level is much higher than Orpik's. That alone makes me doubt the rest of your argument.

And speaking for myself... I trust Orpik every bit as much as a furious, frustrated and completely off-his-game Malkin in the defensive zone, the last two seasons. I figured that was plain enough for anyone to see who watches the games. He's more or less phoning every game in.