Prospect Info: Pittsburgh Penguins Prospect Discussion

[JTG]

Even if he looks good defensively in Portland, he's going to look like **** defensively here. I've already chalked that up as an issue we're going to have to deal with when he comes.

 

[cygnus47]

Even if he looks good defensively in Portland, he's going to look like **** defensively here. I've already chalked that up as an issue we're going to have to deal with when he comes.

We'll have plenty of time to let him develop in the AHL. Not expecting him to blow us away defensively but good positioning and an active stick would be nice.

 

[JTG]

I envision him being much like Joe Morrow when he gets to WBS, and we all know how much the coaching staff loved Joe Morrow.

 

[mpp9]

I think they wanted Maatta and DP on this team sooner than later. They believe in their upside and more willing to put up with mistakes if they show a willingness to learn from them.

 

[JTG]

That would go completely against anything the current regime has ever believed, if true. Maatta really hasn't made many mistakes, so he has played.

 

[Captain Hook]

I'm guessing but I get the impression that DB is under very specific directions when it comes to Maatta. I think he and Shero likely had a discussion when the decision had to be made whether or not to keep him and Shero likely made it known that Maatta has to play if he's kept. You can't let a 19 year old rot in the press box. Pouliot will arrive next season but he'll be 20 and AHL eligible so they may handle him very differently than how they handle Maatta. It's possible Pouliot may get dicked around a bit like Despres but that's the way it goes when you're trying to first break into the league.

 

[mpp9]

That would go completely against anything the current regime has ever believed, if true. Maatta really hasn't made many mistakes, so he has played.

Maatta hasn't made many mistakes?

They've given Maatta far more rope than any other rookie. Even Beau.

He has games where you can see his awesome potential. And others where if his name were Simon Despres, he'd have been benched.

DP will likely need time in WBS to get his defensive game in order. But I don't think they'll wait long to call him up.

 

[Waffle Fries]

That would go completely against anything the current regime has ever believed, if true. Maatta really hasn't made many mistakes, so he has played.

Maatta has made quite a few mistakes. More than Despres lately.

 

[jmelm]

Kid can flat out fly

Yes, he can. Can you imagine 3 out of our 4 (including Neal, of course) of our right-wingers to be Megna, Archibald and then Macaroni on the 4th line? When you think about that foursome + Joe Victory on the team, that's a ******* load of team speed just among those players.

 

[jmelm]

Even if he looks good defensively in Portland, he's going to look like **** defensively here. I've already chalked that up as an issue we're going to have to deal with when he comes.

We'll have plenty of time to let him develop in the AHL. Not expecting him to blow us away defensively but good positioning and an active stick would be nice.

Pouliot's only defensive issues are that he has to get stronger and faster to play against the elite players of the NHL. But having up to 3 years to do that in the AHL, he'll have the chance to do that. Getting stronger will allow him to play more like his idol (Drew Doughty) or at least Kris Letang, in terms of being able to assert himself physically to more of a degree. We all know that Pouliot has a chippy side to his game, but he doesn't have a lot of strength or pack a punch like Kris Letang does for a player of that size.

But beyond those issues (which are far from insignificant, but should be fixable), I don't see any problems with his defensive game...

I envision him being much like Joe Morrow when he gets to WBS, and we all know how much the coaching staff loved Joe Morrow.

No, I don't think he will. Morrow was a bit of a lose cannon, pretty unpredictable and not sound or polished in the defensive zone.

Pouliot, OTOH, is not quite the 2nd coming of Scott Harrington, but his defensive positioning and on-ice awareness and smarts in that regard are extremely good. He is also exceptional at anticipating plays and picking off passes of opposing players, particularly in the transition game and neutral zone. And he's got an unbelievably high panic threshold. There is a reason why the uber-hard-ass Brent Sutter had so much trust in this guy.

So there will be no need whatsoever for the Penguins staff to "break his defensive game down and rebuild it from scratch" the way they did with Morrow. Morrow had these incredible physical attributes but really needed to learn the game. Farmer strong, elite speed and a huge shot, but not solidity to his technical defensive game.

Pouliot is a player who is extremely polished technically (fantastic gap is another strength he has), but just has to adjust to our system, become consistent in that regard and add that strength & speed. So all the fundamentals are there. I really think they're close to polar opposites in that comparison, so despite how the Penguins handled Morrow, I don't see any concern/cause for repetition with how they handle this player.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Maatta hasn't made many mistakes?

They've given Maatta far more rope than any other rookie. Even Beau.

He has games where you can see his awesome potential. And others where if his name were Simon Despres, he'd have been benched.

DP will likely need time in WBS to get his defensive game in order. But I don't think they'll wait long to call him up.

Our fanbase is under the impression that all mistakes are equal, but I don't think the staff sees it that way at all. There are mistakes within the system, and then there are mistakes trying to work outside of what the staff has preached.

When Maatta's made mistakes, they're generally of the variety you saw when he got walked by Karlsson...getting burnt by a toe drag. There's nothing systematically wrong with that play, he'll just be flat-footed or try to angle a guy the wrong way. When Despres makes mistakes, they're generally a by-product of trying a difficult play when a simple one will do, which is why Shero dubbed him Simple Simon.

Now Despres is still a big net positive and his problems are over-exaggerated (especially compared to Letang doing the same thing x 100), but the underlying message is that certain mistakes are acceptable growing pains from a young player, and others need to be weeded out so that everybody's on the same page.

 

[mpp9]

Our fanbase is under the impression that all mistakes are equal, but I don't think the staff sees it that way at all. There are mistakes within the system, and then there are mistakes trying to work outside of what the staff has preached.

When Maatta's made mistakes, they're generally of the variety you saw when he got walked by Karlsson...getting burnt by a toe drag. There's nothing systematically wrong with that play, he'll just be flat-footed or try to angle a guy the wrong way. When Despres makes mistakes, they're generally a by-product of trying a difficult play when a simple one will do, which is why Shero dubbed him Simple Simon.

Now Despres is still a big net positive and his problems are over-exaggerated (especially compared to Letang doing the same thing x 100), but the underlying message is that certain mistakes are acceptable growing pains from a young player, and others need to be weeded out so that everybody's on the same page.

I don't disagree. Maatta makes mistakes a rookie would make. He's shown to have the ability to shake them off, and learn from them.

But you're telling me if Despres was walked like that, he wouldn't be benched?

I dunno man. The way Simon's been handled, and the comments DB made, they're looking for reasons to send him down.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Kid can flat out fly

The last prospect I was hoping to see on the Pens was Kenny (obviously after Beau) and Shero moved him for Iginla.

For the love of god, please don't trade him Shero!

 

[jmelm]

The last prospect I was hoping to see on the Pens was Kenny (obviously after Beau) and Shero moved him for Iginla.

For the love of god, please don't trade him Shero!

He won't be moved. Kenny was moved because the Pens didn't see him as a can't-miss or "special" player. Archibald is very highly regarded among the Pens' brass and you can see why. This kid will not be moved because he's a special player who has a much better chance to make an impact than a guy like Agostino or Hanowski did; and even with that said, the Pens are smart enough to know that they cannot keep trading away prospects and draft picks, in general, and completely deplete the team's prospect depth.


Archibald looks like he's going to be a very good player, and the only thing that remains to be seen is whether he's a legit top 6 guy, or merely a great 3rd liner. But either way, and with our need for wingers in our system, this guy ain't going anywhere.

 

[IcedCapp]

I don't disagree. Maatta makes mistakes a rookie would make. He's shown to have the ability to shake them off, and learn from them.

But you're telling me if Despres was walked like that, he wouldn't be benched?

I dunno man. The way Simon's been handled, and the comments DB made, they're looking for reasons to send him down.

Look no further than the comments he made when Dumoulin was up: always positive, never critical, despite the fact that jmelm had to enter witness protection while he was in the NHL.

But Despres? Always harping on his inconsistencies, what he's doing wrong, etc... Despite, well, not being bad in the slightest.

 

[jmelm]

Look no further than the comments he made when Dumoulin was up: always positive, never critical, despite the fact that jmelm had to enter witness protection while he was in the NHL.

But Despres? Always harping on his inconsistencies, what he's doing wrong, etc... Despite, well, not being bad in the slightest.

What's your point? The cuteness/humour of your jokes have worn off. I stated emphatically that I thought Despres outplayed Dumoulin their time up here and that I felt Dumo needed more seasoning in the AHL before competing for a spot -- and obviously management agreed, which is why they kept Simon and not Dumoulin. So what's your point exactly, aside from trying to provoke me personally by putting words in my mouth that are no longer funny anymore? You must be pretty bored, is the only thing I can conclude.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

It's sad to see Bylsma having a hard-on of hate towards Simon Despres. If Shero is seriously that loyal to Bylsma, I think he might make a huge mistake moving the kid for some rental winger that he hopes he can re-sign.

 

[cygnus47]

The games I saw (pre WJC), Pouliot was a bit too casual in the defensive zone. He didn't seem to assess threats very well, or alternatively he needed more urgency. He'd treat a player jumping out from behind the net the same way he treated someone coming in 1 on 4. He was on the ice for a lot of goals that he could have prevented if he'd been faster or harder with his stick or he'd taken the body.

 

[JTG]

Maatta hasn't made many mistakes?

They've given Maatta far more rope than any other rookie. Even Beau.

He has games where you can see his awesome potential. And others where if his name were Simon Despres, he'd have been benched.

DP will likely need time in WBS to get his defensive game in order. But I don't think they'll wait long to call him up.

He's made mistakes, but he doesn't make them twice. And the mistakes he does make, he makes it up with a great play. There have really only been 2 or 3 games that I can remember this season where Maatta was notably bad. And I think Maatta is treated differently because he has to play...Despres doesn't - contractually speaking.

Then again, there's only a 2 or 3 games where I think Despres has been notably bad...so maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about.

Maatta has made quite a few mistakes. More than Despres lately.

But he always makes up for them, and they rarely happen twice

And the mistakes he tends to make are of the "Jr. player learning NHL player tendencies" variety. CW brings up getting walked by Karlsson. That's a decent one because that's just him getting schooled by NHL savvy. Live and learn...and he has.

 

[tinkezione]

He's made mistakes, but he doesn't make them twice. And the mistakes he does make, he makes it up with a great play. There have really only been 2 or 3 games that I can remember this season where Maatta was notably bad. And I think Maatta is treated differently because he has to play...Despres doesn't - contractually speaking.

I recall also Määttä's worse stretch occurring around the 41-game mark, where simply sitting him on the popcorn stands for one game did the trick. I wish DB used this popcorn thingy with other struggling players as well - even though it would be a vet like Bruce Orpeck sitting, a vet should definitely be professional enough to learn and step up from there.

Overall, Määttä has been the greatest success story of our Pens this season. By far.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I recall also Määttä's worse stretch occurring around the 41-game mark, where simply sitting him on the popcorn stands for one game did the trick. I wish DB used this popcorn thingy with other struggling players as well - even though it would be a vet like Bruce Orpeck sitting, a vet should definitely be professional enough to learn and step up from there.

Overall, Määttä has been the greatest success story of our Pens this season. By far.

And the misuse of Despres has been the worst story of our Pens season. By far.

 

[Sjb141]

I'm guessing but I get the impression that DB is under very specific directions when it comes to Maatta. I think he and Shero likely had a discussion when the decision had to be made whether or not to keep him and Shero likely made it known that Maatta has to play if he's kept. You can't let a 19 year old rot in the press box. Pouliot will arrive next season but he'll be 20 and AHL eligible so they may handle him very differently than how they handle Maatta. It's possible Pouliot may get dicked around a bit like Despres but that's the way it goes when you're trying to first break into the league.

Yea, no. Absolutely not.



And I get that people like despres (he's a great prospect) but he is getting to the point where he's some sort of mythical all star esque player. It's absolute bs. Coaching staff loves his potential too and want him to be successful. There are a lot of factors going in to why he was sent down, not the least of which was - he's really the only one who could have been; and they want him playing big minutes and learning to focus the entire time.




And I'm w/ jmelm on pouliot - I actually think his defense could be a plus. Just has clearly never been his biggest focus. And he's a thicker kid than given credit but he does need to keep developing physically. I see a real potential for him to be a multi year all star.

 

[tinkezione]

And the misuse of Despres has been the worst story of our Pens season. By far.

With this I definitely agree. Waiver-free status could have been used as an excuse for his treatment if he hadn't played that well in the limited games he got to see action. To some extent, I've been rather confused about the usage of Bortuzzo as well, but his case does not belong in the discussion with Määttä and Despres.

 

[Ogrezilla]

And I get that people like despres (he's a great prospect) but he is getting to the point where he's some sort of mythical all star esque player. It's absolute bs. Coaching staff loves his potential too and want him to be successful. There are a lot of factors going in to why he was sent down, not the least of which was - he's really the only one who could have been; and they want him playing big minutes and learning to focus the entire time.

The issue isn't that he was sent down in this current situation. We all get waivers. The issue is that we got into a situation where we had to send him down. We came into this season with one too many vet d-men.

 

[MrBurghundy]

The issue isn't that he was sent down in this current situation. We all get waivers. The issue is that we got into a situation where we had to send him down. We came into this season with one too many vet d-men.

Which is why I still hate the Scuderi signing.