Pierre-Luc Dubois

[Cowumbus]

Newsflash- Just because some players are producing in the NHL, doesn't mean they will be better than PLD in the long run. And, I especially disagree with your argument that if PLD doesn't become a Center it was a waste, even if he is a better LW than Puljujarvi ever becomes. I think drafting is about taking the best player.

Yes, Puljujarvi and Tkachuk are playing in the NHL now, but centers take time to develop.
Look at Mark Schiefele who was sent down to juniors twice after being drafted #7 for Winnipeg. Was a 0.5 ppg player his 3rd season after drafting and now one of the best point producers in the NHL now.

Alexander Wennberg started out pretty poor in the NHL, until getting it going with Hartnell and Dano. Now he's producing at a pace of a 1ppg, skating on our best line. I'd rather have him over Curtis Lazar, Marko Dano, and Burakovsky as of today, despite stats in the draft plus 2 year.

Agree to disagree. I think Jarmo knew we have enough wing depth and attempted to draft a 1C, considering he says he expects PLD to be a C in the NHL. If PLD does not end up a 1C then Jarmo and comp failed to make a satisfactory pick to fill the need within the organization (need a 1C)

 

[major major]

Agree to disagree. I think Jarmo knew we have enough wing depth and attempted to draft a 1C, considering he says he expects PLD to be a C in the NHL. If PLD does not end up a 1C then Jarmo and comp failed to make a satisfactory pick to fill the need within the organization (need a 1C)

I think it might be a reasonable suspicion, that Jarmo drafted with the idea of getting a center, but it's just that, a suspicion. You don't know it.

 

[Jackets16]

Agree to disagree. I think Jarmo knew we have enough wing depth and attempted to draft a 1C, considering he says he expects PLD to be a C in the NHL. If PLD does not end up a 1C then Jarmo and comp failed to make a satisfactory pick to fill the need within the organization (need a 1C)

So, if PLD becomes a 40 goal, 80 point LW, Jarmo failed, because he didn't do it as a C? Just give it up.

 

[Cowumbus]

So, if PLD becomes a 40 goal, 80 point LW, Jarmo failed, because he didn't do it as a C? Just give it up.

Jesus learn how to read. Really I don't even know what to tell you. Clearly it would be good for the Jackets if he turned out to be like that. However he was drafted to be a 1C (the most important position in hockey) and was drafted to fill the only hole on our team. If this hole is not filled by PLD then yes it is a failure considering that is what he was drafted for and the hole would still exist. You need a 1C to win a cup(s)

And the rebuttal is we have a 1C in Wennberg but that is an entirely different discussion

 

[LetsGOJackets!!]

Jesus learn how to read. Really I don't even know what to tell you. Clearly it would be good for the Jackets if he turned out to be like that. However he was drafted to be a 1C (the most important position in hockey) and was drafted to fill the only hole on our team. If this hole is not filled by PLD then yes it is a failure considering that is what he was drafted for and the hole would still exist. You need a 1C to win a cup(s)

And the rebuttal is we have a 1C in Wennberg but that is an entirely different discussion

All positions are important in this game, but the most important three positions are your Goalie and first pairing D. Your top centre plays 20 minutes tops..and effects offensive zone 60% of those 20 minutes. Just my 3 cents.

 

[Hello Johnny]

Jesus learn how to read. Really I don't even know what to tell you. Clearly it would be good for the Jackets if he turned out to be like that.

So what I am saying is if PLD ends up being a winger it is a waste, regardless of how good he is

So it would be good for the Jackets, yet a waste at the same time? This is contradictory.

However he was drafted to be a 1C (the most important position in hockey) and was drafted to fill the only hole on our team. If this hole is not filled by PLD then yes it is a failure considering that is what he was drafted for and the hole would still exist. You need a 1C to win a cup(s)

But by drafting JP, Tkachuk, etc. this hole would still be there. And you're arguing that one of those guys should have been picked instead because:

if we wanted a winger there were plenty of better winger prospects available.

..when that is not a black and white fact because anyone, including our scouting staff whom have dedicated their lives to this, could argue against it. It is your opinion that they are better, which is totally fine.

Wrong. I am saying this because major major and whoever else later down the line may possibly say "hey look PLD is a better winger than Pullujarvi/Laine whoever, what a smart draft choice"
Which would be entirely wrong. If that is true then good for the Jackets. However we drafted PLD TO BE A NUMBER 1 CENTER IN THE NHL.

So it was dumb to pick him as a center, but still the smart pick because we got the better player, no? It seems you are just arguing the semantics of all of this.

It seems that Jarmo and co. see him as a center, yes, but their draft strategy has always been BPA. They saw him as the BPA. You are free to disagree with their sentiment.

 

[mikeyp24]

I 100% with you panda

 

[KJ Dangler]

Checking back in on PLD his stat line is Dubois, 17 4 11 15. Personally I'm starting to become a little concerned with our pick . 17 games in , and he's not a point per game player , and we were worried that sending him back to Cape Brenton was not enough of a challenge.

Also, a huge plus from the draft , which many called a first round talent , Abramov seems to be doing pretty well ....
23 15 14 29.

Would be curious to hear from our board member that watches his games . And if Columbus has sent anyone there to find out what the issue is . I know I'll get blasted , etc , but you have Tkachuk , Laine , Matthews , all playing well in NHL, Jesse struggling a bit but now playing on the first line , and our pick is less than a point per game in the qmjhl, that is concerning to me . Also , Cape Breton list him as Lw , and not as a center ?

 

[Tulipunaruusu*]

If it helps you many in Finland or in the world weren't admitting Laine being the more promising one when Puljujärvi in my eyes destroyed the WJC effort at the age of sixteen with much praised 0+0 while Laine was adjusting at Mestis, the second highest Finnish league level. Tables were turned the next summer with Laine emerging as the superior prospect. You cannot rush this process, only forecast the tale if you allow yourself to see all aspects of the prospects, humane and all.

So I do not exactly see the rush with Dubois. It is two months into the season with more than plenty ahead. I think adversity at this point is far more welcome than being passed blindly into the night with hype.

 

[JacketsDavid]

..when that is not a black and white fact because anyone, including our scouting staff whom have dedicated their lives to this, could argue against it. It is your opinion that they are better, which is totally fine.

Counter is sounds like probably 24-26 other NHL teams (whose scouting staffs have also dedicated their lives to this) would have went another direction. So it is fairly black and white on the consensus pick should have been.

 

[blahblah]

Checking back in on PLD his stat line is Dubois, 17 4 11 15. Personally I'm starting to become a little concerned with our pick . 17 games in , and he's not a point per game player , and we were worried that sending him back to Cape Brenton was not enough of a challenge.

If I'm concerned, it wouldn't be from his stat line in Juniors.

 

[Monk]

Counter is sounds like probably 24-26 other NHL teams (whose scouting staffs have also dedicated their lives to this) would have went another direction. So it is fairly black and white on the consensus pick should have been.

I'm sure this doesn't need to be said, but consensus != correct. Only time will tell.

 

[EDM]

I am not impressed by the guy so far. But if this board has noted the current level of his performance, I am relatively certain that JK and the scouting staff have notice it also.

 

[Monk]

I am not impressed by the guy so far. But if this board has noted the current level of his performance, I am relatively certain that JK and the scouting staff have notice it also.

The board has noted that he's performing very well, at least after the first handful of games. His point total just doesn't indicate that that's the case. Nothing to celebrate, nothing to freak out about.

 

[Crede777]

So it was dumb to pick him as a center, but still the smart pick because we got the better player, no? It seems you are just arguing the semantics of all of this.

It seems that Jarmo and co. see him as a center, yes, but their draft strategy has always been BPA. They saw him as the BPA. You are free to disagree with their sentiment.

I hope you're right. I'm of the view that you always draft BPA and never, ever, ever, ever draft for position that high in the draft.

As for his current stat line, I'm amazingly agreeing with Tulip. If we want him to eventually be a C at the NHL level, then we want him to face as much adversity and tough minutes as possible in the Q.

I'm hoping that Jarmo and company drafted him purely on his ability as an NHL player, not based (even in small part) on his potential to play center. If that was the case and they did draft him purely on ability, he should be fine.

 

[CalBuckeyeRob]

It seems that Jarmo and co. see him as a center, yes, but their draft strategy has always been BPA. They saw him as the BPA. You are free to disagree with their sentiment.

I might agree with this except for the fact that rumors started circulating before the draft that they were focused on finding a #1 center and because of that were looking past the obvious choice of Puljujarvi and after the draft JK mentioned prominently his production after moving to center. I am sure he was their BPA but if that was because he was considered a longterm center, then it begs the question. Was he their BPA if they knew he would stay at LW? If that is not true, then the position was the key to the analysis.

 

[Tulipunaruusu*]

I might agree with this except for the fact that rumors started circulating before the draft that they were focused on finding a #1 center and because of that were looking past the obvious choice of Puljujarvi and after the draft JK mentioned prominently his production after moving to center. I am sure he was their BPA but if that was because he was considered a longterm center, then it begs the question. Was he their BPA if they knew he would stay at LW? If that is not true, then the position was the key to the analysis.

The Kekäläinen radio interview vogeezy graciously linked on previous page doesn't exactly shoehorn Dubois at centre right from the beginning as he might began at wing. "See you in five years".

Who could general magi Kekäläinen be referring to when he mentions how scouting is easy if you look at shot (more speedier slap shot than Laine's) or skating (one of the best skaters in the whole draft with background in ice ball which is played on far larger ice surface) over hockey sense and character. To know the player inside out is their goal.

I think extremely few managed to rate Puljujärvi accordingly leading up to the draft if we are to follow those standards set by the Jackets. Tulipunaruusu of Finland, Tormentor of Finland and Blue Jackets of Columbus scouting staff to name a few successful. Discovery of Nutivaara was also an effort shared by these three sources who have astonishing track records in the forecasting business. I would be more worried if the Blue Jackets were going against consensus of these sources rather than media hype.

 

[Hello Johnny]

Counter is sounds like probably 24-26 other NHL teams (whose scouting staffs have also dedicated their lives to this) would have went another direction. So it is fairly black and white on the consensus pick should have been.

If something is black and white, it means there is no gray area, and clearly there is gray area in this instance. That's all I'm saying.

 

[CalBuckeyeRob]

If something is black and white, it means there is no gray area, and clearly there is gray area in this instance. That's all I'm saying.

As it related to the 3rd best player in a particular draft, you had about as much consensus that has ever existed in any draft. Again, it doesn't make the majority right, but if you decide to go against the large group on the other side you deserve no cover and no excuses if you screw it up and the obvious guy turned out to be better.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

As it related to the 3rd best player in a particular draft, you had about as much consensus that has ever existed in any draft. Again, it doesn't make the majority right, but if you decide to go against the large group on the other side you deserve no cover and no excuses if you screw it up and the obvious guy turned out to be better.

This then historically absolves the organization of any responsibility for Nikita Filatov and Gilbert Brule.

 

[BB88]

The Kekäläinen radio interview vogeezy graciously linked on previous page doesn't exactly shoehorn Dubois at centre right from the beginning as he might began at wing. "See you in five years".

Who could general magi Kekäläinen be referring to when he mentions how scouting is easy if you look at shot (more speedier slap shot than Laine's) or skating (one of the best skaters in the whole draft with background in ice ball which is played on far larger ice surface) over hockey sense and character. To know the player inside out is their goal.

I think extremely few managed to rate Puljujärvi accordingly leading up to the draft if we are to follow those standards set by the Jackets. Tulipunaruusu of Finland, Tormentor of Finland and Blue Jackets of Columbus scouting staff to name a few successful. Discovery of Nutivaara was also an effort shared by these three sources who have astonishing track records in the forecasting business. I would be more worried if the Blue Jackets were going against consensus of these sources rather than media hype.

I'm sorry but I have to say this here.

If you don't even bother to watch Pulju play why do you keep talking about him?

He has 4 points in the last 5 games and has been one of the best wingers for Oilers, he has been much, much better than Laine in the last 5 games since he has gotten his skating back. His defensive game, forecheck/backchecking are truly impressive for 18y rookie.

I have nothing against Dupois, I hope he ends up as a good player. But your hate for Pulju is ridiculous.

 

[JacketsDavid]

As it related to the 3rd best player in a particular draft, you had about as much consensus that has ever existed in any draft. Again, it doesn't make the majority right, but if you decide to go against the large group on the other side you deserve no cover and no excuses if you screw it up and the obvious guy turned out to be better.

Exactly agree 100%

 

[EspenK]

This then historically absolves the organization of any responsibility for Nikita Filatov and Gilbert Brule.

and don't forget consensus had Nail Yakupov #1.

 

[Crede777]

This then historically absolves the organization of any responsibility for Nikita Filatov and Gilbert Brule.

I wasn't aware they needed absolution? Yeah, Howson took BPA with Filatov and Brule. Nobody could have seen their busts coming. Not really his fault. If anything, it's a problem with the pre-draft vetting and then post-draft development.

I see it like: Take consensus BPA, either get BPA or at least you have an excuse. Don't take consensus BPA, either get BPA or you have NO excuse.

 

[Monk]

pre-draft vetting

Isn't this one of the main reasons Jarmo decided to pass on Pulju?