Phoenix Part XXXII: Bridge over Troubled Goldwater

[Donwood]

okay, I just posted, tweeted, emailed a bunch of umm sources
And I was told the mention of Ice Edge buying the bonds on Fan 590 was a JOKE. So we'll close of that sorry chapter in this soap opera.

 

[TheLegend]

Wasn't that another one of those rulings Judge Baum didn't have to make? He just went with the bid endorsed by the majority of creditors, which included CoG.

He also advised to the CoG that they, and the NHL, could end up on opposite sides later on. Which the CoG's attorney acknowledged.

 

[borno87]

What poor ethics or optics would you be referring to? It would be no different that Hulsizer selling the parking rights to the COG and taking back a note, instead of being paid immediately (which is an option that i am sure has been considered, BTW).

I am not a securities lawyer, but I cannot envision where this would be illegal under SEC rules.

Except it is different, he would be taking back all of the cash up front plus a note for the principle and all the interest. Not just a note.

Poor ethics or optics? If he can afford to lay out the money upfront for the bonds, why would he force the COG to pay hundreds of millions in interest with this bonds issue mechanism? That's a rhetorical question GSC, obviously being on the receiving end of those interest payments is something any savvy investor would be interested in. The point I'm making is monetizing (aka transferring the risk and uncertainty of the parking revenues to th CoG) the parking rights while at th same time buying the CoG bonds is extremely poor public relations on MH's part. He claims to be a partner of the Glendale community while at the same time squeezing them for millions in interest?

I guess it's that kind of thinking that helps you end up with means to purchase a hockey team, but if he were to take advantage of this situation to that level.... I can't imagine the community will rally around the type of ownership that exploits it's taxpayers to that extent. If MH does that he is worse than Moyes, the Atlanta Spirit Group and Jim Balsillie combined. Doesn't bode well for the future of the franchise in Glendale IMO.

 

[Killion]

I'm going to suggest that it doesn't exist.

"Officially, the NHL said Hamilton deviated from the bid criteria when Joyce told the League he wanted to put up $25M (other reports including from his own mouth said $30M) of the $50M US fee until he found out what Buffalo & Toronto wanted in Territorial Rights Fee's as Hamilton was within 50 mile boundaries of both clubs".

http://www.bringthenhltohamilton.com/flights_of_fancy7.html

many more stories covering the topic are available on-line, use key words Ron Joyce NHL Bid, Hamilton Ron Joyce NHL etc..... He messed up. End of discussion. OT.

Note; if that link doesnt work, try Google.

 

[HamiltonFan]

"Officially, the NHL said Hamilton deviated from the bid criteria when Joyce told the League he wanted to put up $25M (other reports including from his own mouth said $30M) of the $50M US fee until he found out what Buffalo & Toronto wanted in Territorial Rights Fee's as Hamilton was within 50 mile boundaries of both clubs".

http://www.bringthenhltohamilton.com/flights_of_fancy7.html

many more stories covering the topic are available on-line, use key words Ron Joyce NHL Bid, Hamilton Ron Joyce NHL etc..... He messed up. End of discussion. OT.

Note; if that link doesnt work, try Google.

You're seriously using this quote to support your assertion, and to say Joyce messed up? Am I missing something here???

Joyce offered to put up $25 mil UNTIL territorial rights were decided upon. Clearly, he would pay the other $25 mil once the territorial fees were determined. This is not 'lowballing', as he's still essentially agreeing to pay the whole $50 mil.

Secondly, why the heck should he agree to pay anything at all without knowing the territorial fees? He'd essentially be writing those nhl weasels a blank cheque for territorial rights. Youre saying Joyce messed up by not giving the NHL a blank cheque? WOW! What an incredibly erroneous assessment of the situation. End of discussion indeed.

 

[headsigh]

i don't even care anymore. i just want this thing to be done already, move us or keep us here.


i bought playoff tickets and i'm planning on keeping them in case they're the last run I ever see.

 

[kmad]

Killion. I admire your knowledge and insight. That said, your grammar makes me twitch.

Also got a laugh out of GSC accusing someone else of partisanship.

*fades into background again*

 

[Killion]

Killion. I admire your knowledge and insight. That said, your grammar makes me twitch.

Thanks..... I think.

 

[Donwood]

http://www.azcentral.com/news/elect...zona-hendershott-investigation-mall-rent.html

Corruption at Westgate?

 

[aj8000]

Also got a laugh out of GSC accusing someone else of partisanship.

Yeah that is funny. You should come out of the background more often.

 

[King Woodballs]

http://www.azcentral.com/news/elect...zona-hendershott-investigation-mall-rent.html

Corruption at Westgate?

*shocker* not

 

[Dado]

I floated the idea of MH double dipping and purchasing the bonds himself...and if IIRC was told that would certainly be illegal.

I don't believe it would be illegal but holy **** would that ever inflame the watchdog groups as it's borderline extortion (in the normal sense of the word, not the legal sense).

 

[Coach]

Even the GWI would take credit for blocking the deal. They just sued a local school district to enjoin the use of bond money. Clearly, they understand that by them not seeking an injuction, they are doing one of two things 1) preventing the sale of the bonds, or 2) forcing the CoG to sell the bonds at an excessive rate. To blame the CoG for not wanting to just plow ahead full steam is ridiculous, IMO. The GWI is playing games, and standing behind the Arizona constitution as a pretext.

I guess the e-mail by the CoG to just ignore and play with Goldwater has come back to haunt them. Hard to feel sorry for the CoG when they started the game playing.

 

[AllByDesign]

A little pause to play


A YEAR AGO TODAY.......... AT HF BOARDS


http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stories/2010/04/05/daily31.html

Billy Blaze posted...

taken from the article:

The lease exit clause would require Reinsdorf to seek a buyer who would keep the team in Glendale, but if it’s not possible to find a hometown buyer, the team could be sold to an owner in another market, such as Toronto, Quebec City, Winnipeg, Las Vegas or Kansas City.

Reinsdorf would not be locating the team he would be selling it, he would just be playing the role that the NHL is playing today, any potential non local owner would have to work out relocation fees with the NHL

Killion added....

Once again, one very sweet deal for Jerry Reinsdorf. $100M, using a banks money, servicing the debt & operating the team with the assistance of a specialty tax, flipping the team in a few years to the highest bidder, local or not. So, this is Gary Bettmans "Game Plan"?. $100M from Reinsdorf with the other 60 to be extracted from Jerry Moyes in settlement for his breaches of fiduciary duties & league policies?. Ok. Sounds like a plan to me.

ABD added...

I just want to wake up to a decision. I haven't been this wound up since Matts Sundin took half a season just to decide where he wanted to play!!!

Tune in next time...

 

[htpwn]

^^^^ That last quote is pretty depressing. Btw, how's that book coming?

 

[AllByDesign]

^^^^ That last quote is pretty depressing. Btw, how's that book coming?

Gotta length of rope you could lend me?

 

[htpwn]

Gotta length of rope you could lend me?

Nope lent all mine to the COG.

 

[RAgIn]

A little pause to play


A YEAR AGO TODAY.......... AT HF BOARDS


http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stories/2010/04/05/daily31.html

Billy Blaze posted...


Killion added....



ABD added...



Tune in next time...

Wow. It's like time stood still for 2 years.

 

[Killion]

Tune in next time...

Same Bat Channel, Same Bat Time....

 

[davemac1313]

some light reading

http://www.winnipegsun.com/sports/columnists/paul_friesen/2011/04/06/17901421.html

http://www.winnipegsun.com/sports/hockey/2011/04/06/17901626.html

http://www.winnipegsun.com/sports/hockey/2011/04/06/17901636.html


http://www.winnipegsun.com/sports/hockey/2011/04/06/17901666.html

 

[Winnipeg Jets]

That first article is funny and that's all I'm going to say about that since I'm sure it would get pretty ugly if I kept going.

 

[davemac1313]

That first article is funny and that's all I'm going to say about that since I'm sure it would get pretty ugly if I kept going.

all I have to say is that 100 million for the parking to the 27000 seat jobing.com, that is filled every game.......seems a bargain

 

[Jeffrey93]

"Officially, the NHL said Hamilton deviated from the bid criteria when Joyce told the League he wanted to put up $25M (other reports including from his own mouth said $30M) of the $50M US fee until he found out what Buffalo & Toronto wanted in Territorial Rights Fee's as Hamilton was within 50 mile boundaries of both clubs".

http://www.bringthenhltohamilton.com/flights_of_fancy7.html

many more stories covering the topic are available on-line, use key words Ron Joyce NHL Bid, Hamilton Ron Joyce NHL etc..... He messed up. End of discussion. OT.

Note; if that link doesnt work, try Google.

He messed up??? That is hilarious!!! Yeah...pay us $50M....we'll give you a team...then we will tell you what you owe in territorial fees....those fees will be non-negotiable and you will not get your $50M back. Nothing was stopping the Leafs, had it got to that point, from saying "We want $750M, not a penny less" and the league taking their side. If Joyce bails...the league would still be up $50,000,000.

Yeah....man did he screw up!!

Hamilton had the only bid that met the criteria....Joyce wanted to agree on territorial fees before paying all of the fee. Reasonable if you ask me.

 

[Jeffrey93]

i don't even care anymore. i just want this thing to be done already, move us or keep us here.


i bought playoff tickets and i'm planning on keeping them in case they're the last run I ever see.

I'm starting to wonder if this is part of the NHL's plan. Wear the locals down until they become indifferent. Where they are just tired of the issue and would really be relieved either way.

Companies do this with Unions....threaten closure....and hold it over their heads until they become indifferent, accepting that closure is most likely....then the Union gives up and the company gets what it wants.

Although, in this scenario....I don't see how the NHL could get what it wants. Maybe 'getting what they want' is being able to leave Glendale without really ticking off a pile of people. Now they are to the point where those people simply don't care...they have accepted that it is a possibility and already dealt with that possibility before it even happened.

The NHL may have handled this perfectly (and costly) so that when they do announce the team is leaving...nobody is surprised, shocked, upset, etc. The reaction would be "Meh...we've been waiting for this for over a year." so the NHL doesn't suffer an immediate and .....well....insignificant....negative reception from a few hundred people.

 

[GSC2k2*]

Except it is different, he would be taking back all of the cash up front plus a note for the principle and all the interest. Not just a note.

He would be providing all of his own cash under your scenario. HE would be buying the bonds.

Any promissory note also comes with interest.

Buying bonds and taking back a promissory note is precisely the same thing. That is effectively what bonds are - promises to pay money.

Poor ethics or optics? If he can afford to lay out the money upfront for the bonds, why would he force the COG to pay hundreds of millions in interest with this bonds issue mechanism? That's a rhetorical question GSC, obviously being on the receiving end of those interest payments is something any savvy investor would be interested in. The point I'm making is monetizing (aka transferring the risk and uncertainty of the parking revenues to th CoG) the parking rights while at th same time buying the CoG bonds is extremely poor public relations on MH's part. He claims to be a partner of the Glendale community while at the same time squeezing them for millions in interest?

Why would he "force" the COG to pay interest? Well, firstly, no one would be forcing anyone. None of these scenarios, including the current one, involves anyone being FORCED to do anything. As such, you are starting from the wrong starting point right off the bat. In the above scenario, he would be receiving interest payments because COG would now be in possession of the parking revenues - the asset that he gave to them in exchange for the note.

I guess it's that kind of thinking that helps you end up with means to purchase a hockey team, but if he were to take advantage of this situation to that level.... I can't imagine the community will rally around the type of ownership that exploits it's taxpayers to that extent. If MH does that he is worse than Moyes, the Atlanta Spirit Group and Jim Balsillie combined. Doesn't bode well for the future of the franchise in Glendale IMO.

It is only even arguably "exploitation" if you start from the ASSUMPTION that the parking rights that Hulsizer would be selling to the COG are worth less than what they are paying (and even then, it is only exploitation if you think that all business negotiations are exploitation - a pretty extreme position IMO). Making the assumption that the parking rights are not worth what they have been stated to be worth (using extremely conservative assumptions as the consultants were, mind you) is not a very supportable position IMO; the fact is, there is not a single person on this Board (even the folks who are loudest at denouncing the idea of $100M for parking lots) who has been able to make a sound argument - heck, any kind of argument - that they are worth less, and certainly GWI has offered precisely zip in this regard. All we have left to support that assumption is "heck, how can parking lots be worth $100M??!?", which is the position of many on the Board. The answer is the same as it has always been: "you'd be very surprised".

So, without starting with that assumption, you have one party selling an asset to another party, and instead of getting paid upfront, you have them accepting a promise to pay instead.

IT makes no difference whatsoever whether the bondholder is Hulsizer or some institutional investor.

OPTICALLY, it actually is better, since Hulsizer will have then put up 100% of his own money. Isn't that what so many partisans on this Board have been screaming for? Just put up his own money, and they'd all shut up? [I doubt they would, BTW, to be frank about it. ]