Phoenix LXXIV: Be Seeing You

[Ugmo]

It's pretty obvious the league made the realignment contingent on review after the 2014/15 season because it might very well need to make further changes as a result of expansion and/or relocation.

 

[Killion]

...Bettman said Fehr "Trust me?"

I dont know for sure QcB, but I'd be very surprised if Bettman would back then have tipped his hand, shown his cards to Fehr in openly stating that Quebec was a definite destination for the Coyotes. He's been very careful not to go that far, simply mumbling words to the affect that "both Seattle & Quebec would be good markets" or whatever. The company line & talking points with the public, the media & I would think the NHLPA has been "we continue to work towards finalising a sale in Glendale" and any talk of relocation & specific markets dismissed beyond the aforementioned platitudes. Indeed, the relationship between the league & the PA, between Bettman & Fehr doesnt strike me as being very cordial, that Gary would even feel it was any of the NHLPA's business where the Coyotes wind up, where any teams located. Wasnt even a topic the NHL was willing to discuss during the CBA negotiations.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Phoenix LXXV: Trust me

 

[madhi19]

I dont know for sure QcB, but I'd be very surprised if Bettman would back then have tipped his hand, shown his cards to Fehr in openly stating that Quebec was a definite destination for the Coyotes. He's been very careful not to go that far, simply mumbling words to the affect that "both Seattle & Quebec would be good markets" or whatever. The company line & talking points with the public, the media & I would think the NHLPA has been "we continue to work towards finalising a sale in Glendale" and any talk of relocation & specific markets dismissed beyond the aforementioned platitudes. Indeed, the relationship between the league & the PA, between Bettman & Fehr doesnt strike me as being very cordial, that Gary would even feel it was any of the NHLPA's business where the Coyotes wind up, where any teams located. Wasnt even a topic the NHL was willing to discuss during the CBA negotiations.

We have no way of knowing if Bettman did make or not remark in private about the subject. Something like this. "Yes we are asking you to lower your share HRR but we are also working on removing a few drain to HRR soon." It all speculation.

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Phoenix LXXV:Just like that old gypsy woman said!

 

[David_99]

Phoenix LXXV: Up to Pastor or Out to Pasture

 

[Northern Fan]

I've been reading these threads for months now and thought I could hop in and have my name in the upcoming book concerning this saga!

Someone asked if there was anything in the realignment concerning a possible relocation /expansion and this is all I found. Hope it can help!

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opinion/2013/02/nhl-drops-4-conference-realignment-plan.html

Future tinkering

The league-wide memo indicates the NHL and the NHLPA will meet after the 2015-16 season to see if this is working, "or earlier if circumstances warrant." So there's your "out" for expansion or relocation, should one (or both) of those possibilities exist.

But, barring that, both sides are committing to this for three years. It's a good plan and makes a lot of sense. It must still be approved by the NHL's Board of Governors and the players, but given their history, what could possibly go wrong?

 

[madhi19]

Four games left and in 11th place.



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Phoenix LXXV:Just like that old gypsy woman said!

 

[GF]

QC and any other NA city is not ready for a team.

<<Checking to see if this is the Quebec thread>>

You're funny.

Enjoy those last two home games...

 

[sipowicz]

Haven't been able to follow this thread since the return of hockey in January, has the team been sold, did they find Jamison, is there a lease agreement for 13-14?

End of the week I shall give this thread my full attention.

 

[Nordskull]

I dont know for sure QcB, but I'd be very surprised if Bettman would back then have tipped his hand, shown his cards to Fehr in openly stating that Quebec was a definite destination for the Coyotes. He's been very careful not to go that far, simply mumbling words to the affect that "both Seattle & Quebec would be good markets" or whatever. The company line & talking points with the public, the media & I would think the NHLPA has been "we continue to work towards finalising a sale in Glendale" and any talk of relocation & specific markets dismissed beyond the aforementioned platitudes. Indeed, the relationship between the league & the PA, between Bettman & Fehr doesnt strike me as being very cordial, that Gary would even feel it was any of the NHLPA's business where the Coyotes wind up, where any teams located. Wasnt even a topic the NHL was willing to discuss during the CBA negotiations.

I certainly agree Bettman did not tell him what was to happen like you posted, in a definitive status.

But, something happened that resolved the realignement thing. Dont know what happened. My point is more there are two realignments ready. We know one.

Its only an impression. Yep, I'm not in the secret...

Ya know! If you read everything posted here, yall find out I got 10% chances of being right ;-) But I am fighter ;-)

 

[Seattle Totems]

Quebec should play in the "MidWest" like Winnipeg played in the SouthEast until they realign again later.

That would still require a realignment. If the Coyotes move to Quebec a Mid West division team would need to move back to the Pacific for your plan to work. Otherwise there'd be 6 teams in the Pacific and 8 in the Mid West.

Bettman has been pretty clear about the Coyotes relocating in the past. He specifically stated that if the Coyotes moved to Hamilton they would continue to play in their existing division. That's exactly what happened with Atlanta. The Thrashers did not change divisions when they moved to Winnipeg. It took two full seasons to get the league to agree to a realignment.

I believe the league has precluded relocation to Quebec with their realignment plan. If the league had any contingency plan for Quebec they would have left Columbus or Detroit in the West. They would not have put 16 teams in the east and 14 in the west if they had any inkling that the Coyotes would move to the east. It took years to move Detroit, Dallas, and Columbus into their new divisions. I can not see how any of those teams would voluntarily move back to a bad alignment after one or two seasons.

 

[enarwpg]

Welcome. Hope I helped to clear that up?....

Yes it did.

It'll be a sad day, for those who've been following this saga since the NHL took over ownership, if and when the team relocates. I'm thinking checking here for updates has become a rather enjoyable pastime for those who aren't directly affected (well it certainly has for me).

 

[Ugmo]

I believe the league has precluded relocation to Quebec with their realignment plan. If the league had any contingency plan for Quebec they would have left Columbus or Detroit in the West. They would not have put 16 teams in the east and 14 in the west if they had any inkling that the Coyotes would move to the east. It took years to move Detroit, Dallas, and Columbus into their new divisions. I can not see how any of those teams would voluntarily move back to a bad alignment after one or two seasons.

So once again, the league is saying to Seattle "Give us whatever you want for the Coyotes, since you're the only bidder left. Regardless of whether or not you get an NBA team and a new arena." Because that's the only way the realignment-precludes-relocation-to-QC scenario makes sense.

Well, that or a huge dark horse like Kansas City, or the NHL being willing to lose its shirt in Glendale without subsidies.

 

[IceAce]

Or actually, fyp.

Georgia has rather high income taxes, but t'was a nice try.

 

[Fugu]

Exactly what is the "arbitrary convention" that you have in mind? I'm not aware of any conventions on realignment.

I interpet realignment to have been a thoughtful decision-making process that would be completely surprising if it did not take an imminent move of the Coyotes to QC into account.

If such a move were at all likely, the NHL could have held off announcing realignment until franchise locations were settled.

I'm no more or less happy whatever happens to the Coyotes - Phoenix, Quebec, Seattle or Timbuktu are all fine with me. It's not like I'm rooting against QC.

The only way I could see QC in the cards is if the NHL has an understanding with Columbus that their move to the Eastern Conference is conditional upon the situation in QC. That could well be the case and outside our knowledge.

However, based on all we do know (which, frankly, is not really all that much) Phoenix to QC does not look at all likely; the complicated re-realignment scenarios are even less likely; and Detroit going back to the Western Conference is a non-starter.

That's exactly it. Why make the announcement if it's only a matter of 2-3 months to announcing a move to QC?

I think it's not set in stone, and the only thing we really can take away from the realignment plan is that two teams will be added to the NHL by way of expansion within 2-3 yrs.

i'm still baffled by how many posters here seem to think the current realignment plan will greatly affect where the coyotes get placed. surely the league has various plans.

They have more information than we do.

 

[enarwpg]

Phoenix LXXV: Trust me

...or... Phoenix LXXV: Waiting on a Friend

 

[Ugmo]

Georgia has rather high income taxes, but t'was a nice try.

Nice try on ignoring that QC would be a top 10 market for the league at the gate, which would benefit all the NHL players, as they get a share of the league's revenues.

 

[Nordskull]

AH! Title contest!

LXXV: Beacon and egg

LXXV: Where's Weiers

 

[Ugmo]

That's exactly it. Why make the announcement if it's only a matter of 2-3 months to announcing a move to QC?

I think it's not set in stone, and the only thing we really can take away from the realignment plan is that two teams will be added to the NHL by way of expansion within 2-3 yrs.

I don't think it's set in stone either. I think the league in mid-March (as today) wanted to keep its options open: maybe Seattle will get everything lined up, maybe a solution will miraculously emerge in Glendale, maybe a potential owner will emerge in Kansas City, etc. I just think using realignment as an indication that the league is ruling out QC is barking up the wrong tree, especially since the league specifically left open the option of revisiting realignment in the near future.

But I sure am repeating myself here! I wish someone would take away my internet and reconnect me again once a decision has been made on the Coyotes.

 

[Fugu]

Question for Wings fans:

It was posted above that ST sales for the Wings spiked when the new alignment was revealed, especially from Canada.

My question: I didn't know the Wings had attendance and ST issues to start with? Is this true? Not that the franchise is in any trouble, mind you. It is just interesting.

The Wings had about 14K STHs, and a waiting list of 10K or thereabouts, going into the 2005 lockout. (My numbers may be off slightly as this info is several years old in my memory banks, so I'll try to confirm later.) From about 2002-2008, they held ticket prices steady-- no increase in price at all. The Michigan economy preceded the rest of the country in declining prior to the 2008 Bubble. Ilitch actually kept the GM sponsorship in place when they were reorganizing and thus no longer paying the Wings anything as a token of appreciation for all the years of support. His father had also worked there, iirc, thus he felt there was some loyalty he wanted to show towards the company.

After the return from that 2005 lockout, the STH base steadily eroded, in spite of the Cup win in 2008. People continued to move out of the state. [Heck, even I'm an example. I was a Wings STH and I recently moved to the West Coast from Ann Arbor, MI.]

They revamped pricing about 3 years ago, introducing multiple tiers so they could charge more for the premium seats, while trying to keep the average Joe seats more affordable. They still claim to sell out Joe Louis arena, but they really have to work a lot harder. One thing that helps them greatly is a fantastic cable deal with Fox Sports Detroit.

From my own experience, I know that the tickets that were easiest to sell (if you couldn't attend a game) were any games against Canadian and Eastern Conference teams, along with any Western team that was considered a top contender. (Chicago today, Colorado a few years back, etc.) You could charge the moon for games against the Leafs, Habs, or Bruins. Never had any trouble selling any tickets for any Canadian visitor either. When it comes to hockey, Michigan is like an extension of Ontario. Most Michiganders will preferentially tune in the CBC for coverage if they can get the signal.

This is why I believe Wings management wanted back into the East, in addition to the travel and time zone factors. They're on record saying that they will lose an entire generation of fans because so many of their road games were on very late, well beyond the time younger fans could stay up to watch games.

Finally, and obviously, with a regular parade of NE teams into the Joe, you're going to get more of the Ontario fan base coming to Detroit who may only be peripheral Wings fans, and/or live in those families or towns with divided loyalties.

 

[MaskedSonja]

Haven't been able to follow this thread since the return of hockey in January, has the team been sold, did they find Jamison, is there a lease agreement for 13-14?

End of the week I shall give this thread my full attention.

Short form?

no, nope, and well not yet/depends.

IF I understand things correctly, CoG is looking for someone to manage the arena but not necessarily run the Yotes (IE they could sell to someone who wants to book concerts, rodeos, ect ect). There is no buyer for the Yotes, and it sounds like the most any "fee" that is going to be paid is about 6 million a year TOTAL-meaning if someone managed the arena who didn't buy the Yotes, the person who buys the yotes, unless they are managing the arena, isn't going to get anything more.

My understanding we are waiting for 2 days really: Playoff start (where its been speculated/rumored whatever that an announcement would happen before the playoffs start). The big date seems to be May 24, where CoG (to my understanding) has to then to reach an agreement with a buyer to keep team in Glendale/or if buyer outside of Glendale needs that time to work out where they would play next year.

That's my take, and posters may correct/update/give more info on what's going on-but short form, it really isn't looking good for the Yotes staying in the desert right now.

 

[Fugu]

...or... Phoenix LXXV: Waiting on a Friend

I kicked off the entire thread naming ritual with "I'm just waiting on a judge."

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=19891831&postcount=1


No recycling.

 

[knoxdown]

LXXV: It's inevitable right? RIGHT!?

 

[MaskedSonja]

I don't think it's set in stone either. I think the league in mid-March (as today) wanted to keep its options open: maybe Seattle will get everything lined up, maybe a solution will miraculously emerge in Glendale, maybe a potential owner will emerge in Kansas City, etc. I just think using realignment as an indication that the league is ruling out QC is barking up the wrong tree, especially since the league specifically left open the option of revisiting realignment in the near future.

But I sure am repeating myself here! I wish someone would take away my internet and reconnect me again once a decision has been made on the Coyotes.

You could just stop paying your internet bill

 

[Acesolid]

I've been reading these threads for months now and thought I could hop in and have my name in the upcoming book concerning this saga!

Someone asked if there was anything in the realignment concerning a possible relocation /expansion and this is all I found. Hope it can help!

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opinion/2013/02/nhl-drops-4-conference-realignment-plan.html

Welcome to the madhouse!

Also, I'm sure me and all other Québec guys are looking forward to seeing you (and a lot more new guys) on the future Québec Nordiques section of this forum.

EST. sometime between 2013-2015.