Phoenix LVIII; Will jobbing get jobbed?

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

As mentioned in an interview with Gary Bettman/David Stern (and by "The List" before them), the NHL needs a 50-50 split like their sister leagues.
When "The List" mentioned it, I was ripped apart like an awkward kid named Brian posting his picture on the internet.

Posters said the NHLPA would NEVER settle for 50%. Well... the NHL has now demaned 46%.
Watch them meet in the middle at ~50% - like the NFLPA and NBAPA before them.

As they use to say on the 'A Team'... "I love it when a 'List' comes together."

 

[Killion]

The thing is, though, where (GWI) could (GWI) they (GWI) have (GWI) found (GWI) a couple of legal beagles (GWI) of similar mindset (GWI) and desires (GWI)?

I mean (GWI), people like that (GWI) don't grow on (GWI) trees....especially on (GWI) short (GWI) notice...

...Geezus cut that out. Im dizzy. GWI isnt sp'osed to be involved here on these PAC's & Petitions nor even lend advice. No Sir. But hey. Mind reels.... Joe Cobb in his 54 F-150, all bondo & gun racks cautiously & slowly circling the vacant lots outbacka da job at 3am, makin sure he wasnt followed, night vision goggles duct taped to his noggin, lights off, nervously chain smoking Lucky Strike plains; enter Darcy Olsen in her mellow yellow Mazda Miata, roof down, Bangles Walk Like an Egyptian blasting away through the still night air.... yepp. Figure we'll need a Crane and two hand helds for this scene Daddyo'.

 

[Dado]

...enter Darcy Olsen in her mellow yellow Mazda Miata, roof down, Bangles Walk Like an Egyptian blasting away through the still night air....

Ewwwww.....

Yuck.

Only thing missing from the visual is a Mike Reno headband and 8 inch long earrings.

 

[OthmarAmmann]

As mentioned in an interview with Gary Bettman/David Stern (and by "The List" before them), the NHL needs a 50-50 split like their sister leagues.
When "The List" mentioned it, I was ripped apart like an awkward kid named Brian posting his picture on the internet.

Posters said the NHLPA would NEVER settle for 50%. Well... the NHL has now demaned 46%.
Watch them meet in the middle at ~50% - like the NFLPA and NBAPA before them.

As they use to say on the 'A Team'... "I love it when a 'List' comes together."

It was your arithmetic that was ripped apart on that point. 50% is a 12% reduction for the players.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

It was your arithmetic that was ripped apart on that point. 50% is a 12% reduction for the players.

I know, I know, I know... Why, oh why, didn't I double check my math before I posted "The List"???

 

[CasualFan]

I can see the courts saying to Glendale and SOS that they failed to preserve the defense on rejection of the petitions.

Generally speaking: although not a pleading, the rejection letter asserts the defense plus the city gets a response brief. Petitioners file the complaint then motion to expedite. Scheduling typically runs 7d for plaintiff memo in support; 7d for response motion; 3d for reply. If you're ballpark estimating, oral argument during week of Aug 6; ruling probably no later than Aug 15.

As another poster opined, these brainiacs' with their PAC's & Petitions shouldve' at minimum consulted with an Attorney familiar with the process when the idea to do so was still just a sliver in their bloodshot eyeballs. Do it right or dont bother at all.

I understand what you're saying but it doesn't comport real well to how things usual go. Most initiative petitions contain some type of technical error. That's why the law is written and practiced as "substantially complies". I can appreciate if you look at the errors and say "Oh, that's a careless error. What clown was advising them? Throw all the petitions in the shred bin" But first off, that is not the legally available remedy. The SOS (city clerk in this local initiative) is not empowered to make that decision. Secondly, it drastically overstates the effect of the mistake by considering any error a fatal flaw. As a matter of law, Tindall's rejection is weak. It's not quite as bad as Sitren's complaint in Jones/Cobb but it sure is close.

Of course, judges are peculiar so there's still an off chance they can get the petitions rejected.

 

[Killion]

When "The List" mentioned it, I was ripped apart like an awkward kid named Brian posting his picture on the internet....

It was your arithmetic that was ripped apart on that point. 50% is a 12% reduction for the players.

... well, as Othmar correctly points out, its your
math Kevy. Shoulda paid more attention@PS 101.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

^^^^^^^

**

Leave it to Cormac McCarthy to sum up "The List" in his classic Blood Meridian when he wrote...

"It makes no difference what posters think of 'The List', said the judge. 'The List' endures. As well ask men what they think of stone.
'The List' was always here. Before man was, 'The List' waited for him. "

My God, he writes beautifully.

 

[Killion]

I understand what you're saying but it doesn't comport real well to how things usually go...

... then people are even more ****** than my already low opinion of the human race just so happens to be. Now, I can appreciate that most courts will in fact give civil complaints & its proponents who in most cases have little or no legal experience in cutting them some slack, not entirely without compassion & patience. However, to my way of thinking, you simply do not undertake a process such as this without first consulting with a Lawyer who either specializes in Constitutional Law or one who has a beyond smattering knowledge in the area. Indeed, youd' want to first consult with whomever to make sure your crossing the t's & dotting the i's. Plunk down a $5K retainer. Raise funds from the PAC members or pay it yourself (if you have the means) if you feel so strongly about it. Theres no room for amateurs here, only one shot at it. I read Sandersons (auto dealer) comments about Tindalls rejection, "you dont need to be a Lawyer" yadda yadda yadda to follow the process & procedure. Really?. Im sure that works just fine when your selling or leasing a car Buddy, but dont be trying that on over tax increases that you claim will wipe your dealership off the map. Serious as Cancer.

 

[pucka lucka]

... then people are even more ****** than my already low opinion of the human race just so happens to be. Now, I can appreciate that most courts will in fact give civil complaints & its proponents who in most cases have little or no legal experience in cutting them some slack, not entirely without compassion & patience. However, to my way of thinking, you simply do not undertake a process such as this without first consulting with a Lawyer who either specializes in Constitutional Law or one who has a beyond smattering knowledge in the area. Indeed, youd' want to first consult with whomever to make sure your crossing the t's & dotting the i's. Plunk down a $5K retainer. Raise funds from the PAC members or pay it yourself (if you have the means) if you feel so strongly about it. Theres no room for amateurs here, only one shot at it. I read Sandersons (auto dealer) comments about Tindalls rejection, "you dont need to be a Lawyer" yadda yadda yadda to follow the process & procedure. Really?. Im sure that works just fine when your selling or leasing a car Buddy, but dont be trying that on over tax increases that you claim will wipe your dealership off the map. Serious as Cancer.

So the game should be rigged in favour of those make and enforce the rules? I swear you are confusing ideologies.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

Hi Killion,

I will be at the Argo/Ticat game tonight and I know what a HUGE Argo/CFL fan you are... Buy you a beer at the game?

 

[Dado]

However, to my way of thinking, you simply do not undertake a process such as this without first consulting with a Lawyer who either specializes in Constitutional Law or one who has a beyond smattering knowledge in the area.

Unless you don't really care that much about the outcome, and are treating it as little more than an interent rant.

 

[sipowicz]

Man this whole Coyotes saga has more twists and turns than a Stephen King novel and with no end in sight, more chapters to come and a storyline so unbelievable you couldn't make it up. I'm proud of Bettman for giving those of us on the HF Boards something to muse over summer after summer. Well done little one well done.

 

[roccerfeller]

... well, as Othmar correctly points out, its your
math Kevy. Shoulda paid more attention@PS 101.

too good...lol (and no offence meant Kevy but Killion might have a point here ... i kid)

 

[manisback121]

Generally speaking: although not a pleading, the rejection letter asserts the defense plus the city gets a response brief. Petitioners file the complaint then motion to expedite. Scheduling typically runs 7d for plaintiff memo in support; 7d for response motion; 3d for reply. If you're ballpark estimating, oral argument during week of Aug 6; ruling probably no later than Aug 15.



I understand what you're saying but it doesn't comport real well to how things usual go. Most initiative petitions contain some type of technical error. That's why the law is written and practiced as "substantially complies". I can appreciate if you look at the errors and say "Oh, that's a careless error. What clown was advising them? Throw all the petitions in the shred bin" But first off, that is not the legally available remedy. The SOS (city clerk in this local initiative) is not empowered to make that decision. Secondly, it drastically overstates the effect of the mistake by considering any error a fatal flaw. As a matter of law, Tindall's rejection is weak. It's not quite as bad as Sitren's complaint in Jones/Cobb but it sure is close.

Of course, judges are peculiar so there's still an off chance they can get the petitions rejected.

I tried to frame it that way for non-lawyers.

You have a better grasp of AZ procedure, so...

Here's the question, are memos of law typically included in the record on appeal?

Here in NY, a memo of law is accepted with your motion, but is not technically part of the record. Arguments are solidified and part of the record as of right in affirmations (affidavits in other state) in support, opposition and reply.

I can't believe that they would only get 7 days to brief, 7 days to submit opp and 3 to reply.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

too good...lol (and no offence meant Kevy but Killion might have a point here ... i kid)

Hey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How did this turn into a shot at me?

 

[Killion]

So the game should be rigged in favour of those make and enforce the rules? I swear you are confusing ideologies.

... um, hate ta tell you this supahdupah, but the game is in fact rigged by those who make up & enforce the rules. Started with organized religion actually, but lets not digress, start a Holy War in addition to the others already raging on these threads.

Hi Killion,
I will be at the Argo/Ticat game tonight and I know what a HUGE Argo/CFL fan you are...

Buy you a beer at the game?

... thanks for the thought Kevy, but sadly I cant seem to find a flight to get me there on time.... wonder who David Braley roots for though? His hometown Ti-Cats or the Argo's who he had to unwillingly purchase?. And who does he root for when the Argo's play the BC Lions, who he also owns? Must be a terribly conflicting situation to find oneself in.

Unless you don't really care that much about the outcome, and are treating it as little more than an interent rant.

... yes, and are just so gosh darn angry about it you forget how to spell stuff properly, forgetting important things like dates, leaving off proper registration codes & numbers etcetera etcetera etcetera etcetera. Offering yourself up like a tasty basket of Chicken Wings to the "Rule Makers" & their "Enforcement Occifers"...

 

[CasualFan]

I tried to frame it that way for non-lawyers.

You have a better grasp of AZ procedure, so...

Here's the question, are memos of law typically included in the record on appeal?

Here in NY, a memo of law is accepted with your motion, but is not technically part of the record. Arguments are solidified and part of the record as of right in affirmations (affidavits in other state) in support, opposition and reply.

I can't believe that they would only get 7 days to brief, 7 days to submit opp and 3 to reply.

I would defer to AZ attys for that specific answer. In CA Code Civ. Proc. it is included. Generally, the motion to expedite and scheduling conf call jointly approve the compressed schedule. It's not complex litigation.

 

[OthmarAmmann]

Man this whole Coyotes saga has more twists and turns than a Stephen King novel and with no end in sight, more chapters to come and a storyline so unbelievable you couldn't make it up. I'm proud of Bettman for giving those of us on the HF Boards something to muse over summer after summer. Well done little one well done.

"Phoenix XXIV: How many twists does the scriptwriter have left?" was four days in March 2011.

Many posters were disappointed it wasn't "Phoenix XXIV: Yadda, yadda, yadda" and the first 20 posts were about the title. One articulate, witty, and brilliant poster stated that he didn't see the title coming (everybody ed at that comment and it was a fun time). kdb's index thread included screenshots of last episodes from famous TV shows. Other significant issues that were discussed included whether Hulzinger had the $ to close and whether the deal would fall apart due to legal challenges.

We've come a long, long way.

 

[Dado]

Posters said the NHLPA would NEVER settle for 50%. Well... the NHL has now demaned 46%.
Watch them meet in the middle at ~50% - like the NFLPA and NBAPA before them.

Doesn't the NFL also take the first billion or so off the top, before even calculating the percentage?

 

[manisback121]

I would defer to AZ attys for that specific answer. In CA Code Civ. Proc. it is included. Generally, the motion to expedite and scheduling conf call jointly approve the compressed schedule. It's not complex litigation.

Yeah in the NY civil procedure laws and rules, the preference is for issues to be preserved in affirmations (if non party Atty or physician). Memos can only be included if referenced in the decision being appealed from.

 

[Ugmo]

"Phoenix XXIV: How many twists does the scriptwriter have left?" was four days in March 2011.

Many posters were disappointed it wasn't "Phoenix XXIV: Yadda, yadda, yadda" and the first 20 posts were about the title. One articulate, witty, and brilliant poster stated that he didn't see the title coming (everybody ed at that comment and it was a fun time). kdb's index thread included screenshots of last episodes from famous TV shows. Other significant issues that were discussed included whether Hulzinger had the $ to close and whether the deal would fall apart due to legal challenges.

We've come a long, long way.

I've only been here since around the end of last year, but my favorite title so far was "Bongo Fury." That really had a nice ring to it, for some reason.

 

[pucka lucka]

... um, hate ta tell you this supahdupah, but the game is in fact rigged by those who make up & enforce the rules. Started with organized religion actually, but lets not digress, start a Holy War in addition to the others already raging on these threads.

I know you know it's rigged, that's why i made the comment about confusing ideologies

 

[rt]

So still no investors?
Keep on carrying on.

Generally speaking are 170 million dollar deals usually consummated at 6:00am on Saturdays?

 

[rt]

... well, as Othmar correctly points out, its your
math Kevy. Shoulda paid more attention@PS 101.

Best one yet.