Phoenix LVIII; Will jobbing get jobbed?

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

What needs to be explained is...

If this team struggles financially within its current successful run, what will happen if they have 3 to 5 years of underperforming teams?

 

[cutchemist42]

Could Reinsdorf ever come back and ask for this same lease?

 

[blues10]

"I happen to know some of the commitments that were made when they went there. And they were commitments that if they werent fulfilled there could easily be a lawsuit".
Mayor Katz of Winnipeg

...interesting, but he strikes me as a chip off the old block of a Mel Lastman or Rob Ford of Toronto, Sly James of Kansas City or whomever. Typical municipal politicians foamy mouthed palatherings, speaking out of Church.
anyhoo, next?

Seems very likely.

Katz did not identify the commitments to which he was referring, and declined to expand on his comments.
NHL Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly said he didn't know what commitments Katz might be talking about.
"I can't say that I know what he is referring to," Daly said via e-mail Wednesday.
Nick Dranias, constitutional policy director for the Phoenix-based Goldwater Institute, a taxpayer watchdog group trying to block the Coyotes' sale to would-be buyer Matthew Hulsizer, was equally baffled by Katz's claim.
"It doesn't make any sense to me," Dranias said. "If he's talking about obligations or agreements that were reached before the Hulsizer deal, that would have come out during bankruptcy."
Much of the team's dirty laundry was aired during 2009 bankruptcy proceedings that ended with the NHL taking over the team, and Dranias said any agreements in place before that process would not only have become evident at the time, they would very likely have been voided by it.
"It would seem to me there would be no binding agreements right now that would prevent them from moving," he said.
Dranias said it's possible — albeit unlikely — that the league has since entered into private agreements with the likes of suppliers or sponsors, but that Goldwater wouldn't know because those deals wouldn't be a matter of public record

http://www.winnipegsun.com/2011/04/27/coyotes-not-coming-to-peg-katz

 

[Confucius]

What needs to be explained is...

If this team struggles financially within its current successful run, what will happen if they have 3 to 5 years of underperforming teams?

Pretty straightforward really. Jamieson will ask for a bigger AMF. The city will have no choice but to give him more, afterall add everything it cost the city up to that point. May as well just keep on going, in for a penny in for a pound.....

 

[blues10]

What needs to be explained is...

If this team struggles financially within its current successful run, what will happen if they have 3 to 5 years of underperforming teams?

More of this.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

Pretty straightforward really. Jamieson will ask for a bigger AMF. The city will have no choice but to give him more, afterall add everything it cost the city up to that point. May as well just keep on going, in for a penny in for a pound.....

Very true. But what if the city goes bankrupt like so many cities in recent times?

 

[Confucius]

Very true. But what if the city goes bankrupt like so many cities in recent times?

That would be funny, the city threatens Jamieson with bankruptcy if he suggests he needs more or he'll go bankrupt.

 

[CasualFan]

Yes, the market is viable CF.

Clearly, legitimate investors do not share your optimism. The opportunity has been available to anyone who wants it. Where is the investment? Anyone who thought the Coyotes were merely a distressed asset that only needed a sound business plan to thrive could have bought the team out of BK for under $130MM. How many bids did that auction get? None.

It's not an insult; it's the reality of the events as they have transpired. You can stubbornly deny it but the evidence is right there in front of us all. Perhaps the new CBA will alter the NHL business model in a manner that makes it viable? I doubt it though.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

That would be funny, the city threatens Jamieson with bankruptcy if he suggests he needs more or he'll go bankrupt.

Yes. Quite an ugly circle (jerk).

Again, I have gotten to the point where I don't care but this must be exhausting for the Coyote fans that do.

If there is a Hell, Gary Bettman and Bill Daly have reservations at the head table. Well, maybe not at the head table but not near the kitchen either. Good thing they are both originally from there and speak the language.

 

[Killion]

You get one shot with a business and "under new management" signs. If the business still sucks, people won't come back unless there's a massive overhaul.

You need to rid the COG of pay to play, graft, corruption and good old boys politics too.

Right now Glendale is en route to a state without police attracting crime because of cash. A one way road to hell.

How do you fix the underlying problem with government issues.

Indeed, and all excellent points. Id comment but in the interests of keeping politics out of the conversation & turning this thread into a battlefield littered with the graves of its membership... as for the "one shot" comment manisback, whats the dealeo with those Persian Rug Dealers?. Theyve got huge banners in their windows with "Going out of Business Liquidation Sale, Up to 80% Off" etc, then 5yrs later you drive or walk bye & their still there?. Somehow reminds me of the Coyotes situation & the NHL, but I cant quite put my finger on it....

Seems very likely.

... you mentioned he spends his "vacation time in Arizona" right? That may explain his ravings. Extreme temperature changes. From extreme cold, the frozen surfaces of Lake Winnipeg waiting for his dinner to swim bye to the extreme heat of the Sonoran desert, baking in a 26' Airstream with nothing but a dashboard fan, blender after blender full of 80 proof Margaritas' in attempt to cool down some.

 

[Confucius]

Clearly, legitimate investors do not share your optimism. The opportunity has been available to anyone who wants it. Where is the investment? Anyone who thought the Coyotes were merely a distressed asset that only needed a sound business plan to thrive could have bought the team out of BK for under $130MM. How many bids did that auction get? None.

It's not an insult; it's the reality of the events as they have transpired. You can stubbornly deny it but the evidence is right there in front of us all. Perhaps the new CBA will alter the NHL business model in a manner that makes it viable? I doubt it though.

The thing I don't understand, someone could have had all of Westgate for 40 million and they had no takers. The whole thing for 40 million...

 

[Killion]

Clearly, legitimate investors do not share your optimism. The opportunity has been available to anyone who wants it. Where is the investment? Anyone who thought the Coyotes were merely a distressed asset that only needed a sound business plan to thrive could have bought the team out of BK for under $130MM. How many bids did that auction get? None.

... in the teeth of a recession, under less than optimal conditions, hardly surprising. Additionally, who really wants to do business with the NHL anyway?. Youd need a streak of masochism a mile wide to even entertain the notion quite frankly. But if you had the guts, yes my friend, glory you would find.... then again, Im pretty much certifiable so take it for what its worth. Just observing, waiting for the recall thats due any day now to the Orion Nebula.

 

[CasualFan]

The thing I don't understand, someone could have had all of Westgate for 40 million and they had no takers. The whole thing for 40 million...

I don't believe that is accurate. There were two lenders and two auctions. But to your point, neither attracted a bid over reserve.

then again, Im pretty much certifiable

All the best, K. But, yeah, you might be slightly off the reservation on this one

 

[manisback121]

Indeed, and all excellent points. Id comment but in the interests of keeping politics out of the conversation & turning this thread into a battlefield littered with the graves of its membership... as for the "one shot" comment manisback, whats the dealeo with those Persian Rug Dealers?. Theyve got huge banners in their windows with "Going out of Business Liquidation Sale, Up to 80% Off" etc, then 5yrs later you drive or walk bye & their still there?. Somehow reminds me of the Coyotes situation & the NHL, but I cant quite put my finger on it....



... you mentioned he spends his "vacation time in Arizona" right? That may explain his ravings. Extreme temperature changes. From extreme cold, the frozen surfaces of Lake Winnipeg waiting for his dinner to swim bye to the extreme heat of the Sonoran desert, baking in a 26' Airstream with nothing but a dashboard fan, blender after blender full of 80 proof Margaritas' in attempt to cool down some.

There was no political statement in what I said, Glendale is on the road to having to slash the budget including emergency services. They burned through their reserves in the midst of a recession. Now they want to cut deeper.

How do they recover with a cash flush population they need and an area when they need to institute austerity measures to operate including cutting emergency services to satisfy the AMF?

 

[Killion]

All the best, K. But, yeah, you might be slightly off the reservation on this one

... I am that, and Ive got company. Give the Tohonos' what they want and they'll return a voluntary 10% flat tax to the COG. Sure their way off the reservation but so what?. Enough with the chicanery. They were promised. Problem solved.

 

[Killion]

There was no political statement in what I said, Glendale is on the road to having to slash the budget including emergency services. They burned through their reserves in the midst of a recession. Now they want to cut deeper.

How do they recover with a cash flush population they need and an area when they need to institute austerity measures to operate including cutting emergency services to satisfy the AMF?

... manisback, you touched on issues that related to law enforcement and by extension immigration & border control, education, a wide range of socio-political issues. Just enough coal thrown on the fire to send the thread off the rails.

As for the latter, there are numerous positive signs in & around Glendale & Westgate itself, from the building of the Tanger Factory Outlet to the infusion of money & personnel out at Luke AFB, recovering real estate & jobs markets to be optimistic.

Additionally, if as I suggested above they accommodated the Tohono's in truly turning Westgate into a Sports/Entertainment & Shopping Destination, secured a few more anchor tenants, big box retailers, under astute ownership & management sans the egregious "Arena Management Fee's" altogether this can be fixed. Win-Win-Win.... Winning.

Disclaimer; It may be too late however for such eventualities, and I dont see the JIG nor the NHL in waiting it out. More a case of False Prophets than Messiahs.

 

[Conflicted Habs fan]

So when will representatives of the CoG, NHL and GWI begin screaming at eachother and throw insults and chairs, I want to see Springer and Opra get involved. I forsee an improvised solution that has never been seen before, ie: disolve the Coyotes, distribute the players around the league equitably, and have each team contribute one volunteer who will play in Quebec city, my guess is all the french players will jump at the chance. Uniforms will be simple, PKP can go to any NHL shop and buy the old Jerseys that are still being sold.

 

[Wheathead]

It'll be easier for the NHL to delete a team off the schedule than it would be to relocate a team across the continent and reschedule the entire league.

 

[YEMELIN74]

It'll be easier for the NHL to delete a team off the schedule than it would be to relocate a team across the continent and reschedule the entire league.

not really sure about that, they would have to modify the schedule for the 29 other teams, also if they move the coyotes to quebec, the easiest thing to do would be to swap the jets and the nordiques schedule and have the nordiques play in the southeast division and the jets in the pacific division

 

[aqib]

The referendum on the lease has already been eliminated, so they have no worries there. Even if the tax increase goes to the ballot, the COG has already made it clear that they are further ahead financially with the Coyotes and the Jamison lease than they are without, so I can't see how the tax increase would affect the lease.

They can say that all they want but Skeete already admitted that they can't afford the AMF payment without the tax.

 

[saskganesh]

not really sure about that, they would have to modify the schedule for the 29 other teams, also if they move the coyotes to quebec, the easiest thing to do would be to swap the jets and the nordiques schedule and have the nordiques play in the southeast division and the jets in the pacific division

Jets should hold out for compensation. It could be called a "relocation fee."

 

[saskganesh]

What needs to be explained is...

If this team struggles financially within its current successful run, what will happen if they have 3 to 5 years of underperforming teams?

The concept here would be to use current success to build up a stronger fan culture, so that when the downturn inevitably happens, the fans (and $ponsors) will stick around.

 

[TheLegend]

One of these days it'd be swell to hear your opinion about the developments, analysis and speculation on the business aspects of the Coyotes. Everybody already knows how you like to portray my motives.

What is there to speculate??

What sort of analysis do you need to see that the franchise has been used and abused beyond anyone's imagination for nearly 16 years?

The NHL's entry into this market was a cluster**** from day one. That's not to say it's not a viable market.... it just the requirements for establishing it required a different approach than what it got.

 

[Whileee]

What is there to speculate??

What sort of analysis do you need to see that the franchise has been used and abused beyond anyone's imagination for nearly 16 years?

The NHL's entry into this market was a cluster**** from day one. That's not to say it's not a viable market.... it just the requirements for establishing it required a different approach than what it got.

I don't disagree that the franchise has had a checkered history. I am also not among those that think that it can't work in that market.

My analysis has been that the NHL and the various ownership candidates thus far have victimized the City of Glendale and Coyotes fans. This is a special situation where Glendale has actually gone above and beyond what could be reasonably expected, and have actually saved the NHL's bacon on this debacle. In return, the NHL and ownership candidates have done nothing that shows any confidence in the market, or even any grateful concessions to get a deal done.

My criticism of the City of Glendale has been mostly on the basis of faulty financial analysis, misleading communication with the public, and at times nefarious activities as public servants. Through it all, they have willfully remained patsies for the NHL.

I have no respect for the GWI, but think that the COG has managed their threat quite ineptly.

 

[manisback121]

The concept here would be to use current success to build up a stronger fan culture, so that when the downturn inevitably happens, the fans (and $ponsors) will stick around.

To do that you need the fanbase's faith and that is hard to build up with the cyclical element of hockey teams , especially nowadays. Too much fear of this **** happening again precludes that unless you get 10 years and cash flow. I don't think that would be possible in this situation. Always bleeding since day one, crap area and a hasty move combined.

Hate to say it, but if they were still at AWA, then had a run like this, then moved...