Phoenix LV: is Has Left the Building

[Slashers98]

Aubut?

Yes, Marcel Aubit is the president of the COC and that's about it.

 

[Acesolid]

For those who want an update (instead of repetitive ramblings):

#NHL-- According to #TVA's Patrick Caisse, B.Daly has confirmed to him that G.Jamison continues to seek investors to buy the #Coyotes.


So...... yeah....... we're still waiting AND WE'RE ALMOST IN JULY!


In fact, here's an exclusive video of Goldwater (with their famous Hammer logo) preparing to go kill the Coyotes and DESTROY the arena and the ENTIRE WESTGATE AREA like Bettman said once the Judge gives his verdict.

 

[cheswick]

You really think I can say more? I'm not writing under a pseudonym or hiding behind a fake picture...

You can say whatever it is you feel like. Readers of your posts can choose to believe you or not.

I can say that my concrete source told me PKP hasn't had any discussions with the NHL in many months and that the NHL has made no decision on what to do with the Coyotes. I can't tell you my source besides that he works in the NY area.

People can choose to believe that or not (I made it up ofcourse). Point is it's easy to just make stuff up with vague sources claiming you can't actually reveal them.

You could be telling the truth I don't know. I personally don't believe you cause you have vague sources, have knowledge that the main stream media have made no claims of (depite being all over the breaking Winnipeg story), and you're an annonomous internet poster who i don't know so have no reason to trust.

Again I'm not saying your lying just that you've given me no reason as to why I should believe you.

 

[Slashers98]

You can say whatever it is you feel like. Readers of your posts can choose to believe you or not.

I can say that my concrete source told me PKP hasn't had any discussions with the NHL in many months and that the NHL has made no decision on what to do with the Coyotes. I can't tell you my source besides that he works in the NY area.

People can choose to believe that or not (I made it up ofcourse). Point is it's easy to just make stuff up with vague sources claiming you can't actually reveal them.

You could be telling the truth I don't know. I personally don't believe you cause you have vague sources, have knowledge that the main stream media have made no claims of (depite being all over the breaking Winnipeg story), and you're an annonomous internet poster who i don't know so have no reason to trust.

Again I'm not saying your lying just that you've given me no reason as to why I should believe you.

Fair answer Chesnick, I respect your opinion and you have every right not to believe me.

 

[madhi19]

You can say whatever it is you feel like. Readers of your posts can choose to believe you or not.

I can say that my concrete source told me PKP hasn't had any discussions with the NHL in many months and that the NHL has made no decision on what to do with the Coyotes. I can't tell you my source besides that he works in the NY area.

People can choose to believe that or not (I made it up ofcourse). Point is it's easy to just make stuff up with vague sources claiming you can't actually reveal them.

You could be telling the truth I don't know. I personally don't believe you cause you have vague sources, have knowledge that the main stream media have made no claims of (depite being all over the breaking Winnipeg story), and you're an annonomous internet poster who i don't know so have no reason to trust.

Again I'm not saying your lying just that you've given me no reason as to why I should believe you.

It could also mean that PKP and the NHL already have a Gentlemen's agreement. In that case it could only be a matter of getting on the phone and telling PKP to get the ball rolling.

 

[Antaya]

Just like Balsillie demonstrated, you don't get an NHL team by running your mouth about it.

 

[Confucius]

What I think has happened is the league decided sometime ago that the team was going to be sold to Quebec. I'd guess around the time they were very secretive with mayor Scruggs, around the time they were not telling her anything, not returning her calls. Finally she blew a gasket, and then a couple of days later all seemed alright. Again I'm guessing she was told to basically zip it and the city would get back their 50 million. A little later Scruggs was all against the league again. I'm guessing she realized, yeah we're getting the 50 million back but the team is going.

Bettman promised or told his BofG they wouldn't lose on the Coyote ownership. So 170 million for the team plus 50 million for the CofG, would mean he needs 220 million for the team. He may be asking 230 and this just may be where it all sits at the moment.

Thing is if Quebec doesn't buy it or some other S. Ontario market, the league and Glendale will never get their money back. There isn't a single city in the U S that would pay 230 million for the team and then have to come up with an arena. Maybe even worse, have to pay 230 for the team and get maybe only half the hockey revenue. Having to share it with an existing arena owner.

 

[Killion]

Fair answer Cheswick, I respect your opinion and you have every right not to believe me.

..oh boy, lookit the problems youve caused yourself.

... I dont question the veracity nor the integrity of your "sources", I believe there quite real, genuine. I too have "sources" in & around QC, friends & business acquaintances. Heard tales of PKP's audacity & temerity in challenging Gary Bettman's arrogant demands actually. Like I said earlier, good for him. Unlike you & or your sources however, I'm not so sure QC is even an option any longer for Herr Bettman, not unless he wants to eat some Crow, buck up & get real/reasonable.

On the one hand, Quebec City like Southern Ontario is a fabulous opportunity, Expansion Fee's coming unencumbered. Sure they could sell the Coyotes to PKP however, that moneys gone, the other 29 clubs receiving not a sou from the sale. Not exactly the kind of thing thats going to perpetuate Garys reputation as a fixer, a "Hero", dishing out relo checks over & above the $200M he's already on the hook for. Silly human pride. PKP is an outlier, not part of the old boys club league wide. Just the kind of owner the NHL needs actually. Why should he subjugate himself to the merry whims & demands of a dictatorial Commissioner?. Sure he wants a team, but on his terms, his price, which accordingly is more than reasonable from what Ive been able to fathom but still not enough for GB.

Now I know many of the Quebec crowd will suggest that its not too late to get a deal done, and their right, provided its done like yesterday. Here we are end of June, a line drawn in the sand by the NHL over the CBA of September 15th, so many factors coming together in Phoenix & yes, Seattle, that its almost impossible to get a read on things, where this is all headed & how its going to play out. How much of this is now about ego & principal. I havent got a clue, but keep fighting the good fight S98, your articles are always well written & informative even if I dont agree with the premises' you take from time to time.

 

[Mungman]

What I think has happened is the league decided sometime ago that the team was going to be sold to Quebec. I'd guess around the time they were very secretive with mayor Scruggs, around the time they were not telling her anything, not returning her calls. Finally she blew a gasket, and then a couple of days later all seemed alright. Again I'm guessing she was told to basically zip it and the city would get back their 50 million. A little later Scruggs was all against the league again. I'm guessing she realized, yeah we're getting the 50 million back but the team is going.

Bettman promised or told his BofG they wouldn't lose on the Coyote ownership. So 170 million for the team plus 50 million for the CofG, would mean he needs 220 million for the team. He may be asking 230 and this just may be where it all sits at the moment.

Thing is if Quebec doesn't buy it or some other S. Ontario market, the league and Glendale will never get their money back. There isn't a single city in the U S that would pay 230 million for the team and then have to come up with an arena. Maybe even worse, have to pay 230 for the team and get maybe only half the hockey revenue. Having to share it with an existing arena owner.

Where have you dug up this premise that the CoG will ever see the green of their 50M again? I need a source for that, never going to happen, that cash is long since gone into the incinerator that is the NHL franchise in Arizona.

 

[Slashers98]

..oh boy, lookit the problems youve caused yourself.

... I dont question the veracity nor the integrity of your "sources", I believe there quite real, genuine. I too have "sources" in & around QC, friends & business acquaintances. Heard tales of PKP's audacity & temerity in challenging Gary Bettman's arrogant demands actually. Like I said earlier, good for him. Unlike you & or your sources however, I'm not so sure QC is even an option any longer for Herr Bettman, not unless he wants to eat some Crow, buck up & get real/reasonable.

On the one hand, Quebec City like Southern Ontario is a fabulous opportunity, Expansion Fee's coming unencumbered. Sure they could sell the Coyotes to PKP however, that moneys gone, the other 29 clubs receiving not a sou from the sale. Not exactly the kind of thing thats going to perpetuate Garys reputation as a fixer, a "Hero", dishing out relo checks over & above the $200M he's already on the hook for. Silly human pride. PKP is an outlier, not part of the old boys club league wide. Just the kind of owner the NHL needs actually. Why should he subjugate himself to the merry whims & demands of a dictatorial Commissioner?. Sure he wants a team, but on his terms, his price, which accordingly is more than reasonable from what Ive been able to fathom but still not enough for GB.

Now I know many of the Quebec crowd will suggest that its not too late to get a deal done, and their right, provided its done like yesterday. Here we are end of June, a line drawn in the sand by the NHL over the CBA of September 15th, so many factors coming together in Phoenix & yes, Seattle, that its almost impossible to get a read on things, where this is all headed & how its going to play out. How much of this is now about ego & principal. I havent got a clue, but keep fighting the good fight S98, your articles are always well written & informative even if I dont agree with the premises' you take from time to time.

Rumors and innuendo!

I'm flattered by your comments Killion, and I'm always looking to read your next comments as I believe you're one of the most knowledgeable poster on HFBoards!

 

[aqib]

What I think has happened is the league decided sometime ago that the team was going to be sold to Quebec. I'd guess around the time they were very secretive with mayor Scruggs, around the time they were not telling her anything, not returning her calls. Finally she blew a gasket, and then a couple of days later all seemed alright. Again I'm guessing she was told to basically zip it and the city would get back their 50 million. A little later Scruggs was all against the league again. I'm guessing she realized, yeah we're getting the 50 million back but the team is going.

Bettman promised or told his BofG they wouldn't lose on the Coyote ownership. So 170 million for the team plus 50 million for the CofG, would mean he needs 220 million for the team. He may be asking 230 and this just may be where it all sits at the moment.

I doubt it for the following reasons:

1) there is no way the nhl is going to give Glendale its $50 million back. They won't give it to be nice.

2) They could have pulled the plug on Jamison a while ago said "He can't get enough investors, no one wants to own the team there under the circumstances we have to go"

 

[Confucius]

Where have you dug up this premise that the CoG will ever see the green of their 50M again? I need a source for that, never going to happen, that cash is long since gone into the incinerator that is the NHL franchise in Arizona.

Yep I'm just guessing, hopefully I was pretty clear about that. Anyway there was a period of time, about a couple of days when all was rosey, with the Mayor acting almost giddy with her 180 degree about face, from when she had her minor blowup in the press. What could have made her so happy?

 

[gifted88]

... I dont question the veracity nor the integrity of your "sources", I believe there quite real, genuine. I too have "sources" in & around QC, friends & business acquaintances. Heard tales of PKP's audacity & temerity in challenging Gary Bettman's arrogant demands actually. Like I said earlier, good for him. Unlike you & or your sources however, I'm not so sure QC is even an option any longer for Herr Bettman, not unless he wants to eat some Crow, buck up & get real/reasonable.

If you don't mind me asking, what were his demands and when did he make those demands to PKP?

 

[madhi19]

I doubt it for the following reasons:

1) there is no way the nhl is going to give Glendale its $50 million back. They won't give it to be nice.

2) They could have pulled the plug on Jamison a while ago said "He can't get enough investors, no one wants to own the team there under the circumstances we have to go"

Yeah but they sure don't bring up Jamison unless asked about him. Hell if it was not for a few journalist asking questions the league would be totally silent about the whole mess for a while now. They gave Glendale and Jamison 30 days after the last Coyotes game and that time was up last week. The current lease die at midnight tonight... It just speculation so far but it relatively well informed speculation.

 

[Undertakerqc]

Remember guys, relocation as been done in july before. The Hartford Whalers move to Carolina was official only in july. And once you get in mid july, the hockey work has been done with the draft and FA all but over. Is it the perfect situation, no, but selling tickets will be easy at the beginning and PKP will be able to put is administration and Hockey management team together in time for september.

 

[halligan10]

Ok Daly told TVA Sport today that Jamison doesnt have the money yet and that they are waiting for Judge Fink to ake a decision...I guess I am missing something because I thought that Fink gave his decision about the Emergency clause....

http://www.journaldequebec.com/2012/06/26/jamison-cherche-toujours-des-investisseurs

 

[RandR]

...OK, well lets say PKP is playing hardball as S98 tells us below. I say "good for him". The only person he'd be "pissing off" would be Gary Bettman, who like a petulant child demands unreasonable accommodations or he takes his puck away & goes home.

Bettman, not Peladeau is the "doofus" here. I mean c'mon, you only have to look at his track record in trying to facilitate a local sale claiming "price is not an obstacle" to understand the mans mindset. Damn straight if I was PKP Id be teaching him a lesson. About time someone stood up to his Bully Boy tactics & put him in his place.

Quebec shouldnt be paying a nickle more than TNSE did all-in for the Thrashers. The NHL needs QC a lot more than QC needs the Coyotes right now. Its absolutely inevitable and yes, manifest destiny that Quebec City will be receiving a team, so good luck to Gary Bettman in trying to extort a grossly inflated price for the pleasure.

Most people have principals in life. Why would PKP simple accede to egregious demands from someone who will eventually wind up as his employee?

Bravo Killion!

I wouldn't know PKP if I bumped into him on the street, but the simple fact that the man has gotten to where he is makes me think he is more likely to drive a hard bargain than simply accepting Gary's asking price.

It could also mean that PKP and the NHL already have a Gentlemen's agreement. In that case it could only be a matter of getting on the phone and telling PKP to get the ball rolling.

Another good point. If the Coyotes do move to Phoenix now, I wouldn't be surprised if we find out later that the move was facilitated by a prior "gentleman's agreement" to be followed up on only if things didn't work out in Glendale.

The only thing I feel safe in concluding is that Bettman has been absolutely determined to keep the Coyotes in Phoenix up until at least quite recently. That could be partly because initial discussions with PKP demonstrated to Gary that PKP couldn't be taken for granted and would have to be negotiated with on at least equal terms.

Given that, I think the Phoenix situation has gotten far worse than Gary likely would have imagined, and he has now got himself quite the pickle to wriggle out of. This is where PKP can come in, and if they do come to a proper agreement in the next week or so I think it is only because one or more of the Glendale/Goldwater/Jamison situations finally became unsustainable.

I also believe that anyone claiming to have known more than a month ago how this will turn out is either deluded or lying because I don't think even Gary himself knew with any certainty what the end result would be back then. Gary still may not know, and it is quite conceivable that he still hasn't committed the league to anything he can't back out of.

 

[cutchemist42]

When does the FA season begin? Would they allow decisions to be made about Phoenix's team knowing Quebec/Roy/PKP don't like the player moves?

 

[cbcwpg]

For those who want an update (instead of repetitive ramblings):

#NHL-- According to #TVA's Patrick Caisse, B.Daly has confirmed to him that G.Jamison continues to seek investors to buy the #Coyotes.

That statement alone tells me it's all but done. I think Jamison is done seeking investors and actually has them all lined up, but the problem is not one of them is going to sign up to buy the team until it is an absolute certainty that the AMF is in place for the next 20 years. Which leads us to why we are in a holding partern and that being the "referendum watch" ( plus the 4 or 5 other issues that CF documented ).

Stepping back for a moment; does anyone think that with the current lease expiry on the 27th, that the NHL will seriously continue to wait for all the fallout from: the referendum, the various court challenges, the GWI gift clause challenge that hasn't even started yet, etc. to find out in November ( worst case ) its over and done with? Then what? You have a team in Glendale that has already started the season and is playing games ( let's assume there is no lockout ) where the CoG has been told they can't pay for the AMF. Who picks up the tab then? Do you move the team after the season has already started? Do you fold them?

And as far as Jamison... even if he had the money and investors, would you buy the team in his position given all the uncertainty when you are waiting for the AMF money to survive on?

Long winded, but the question is... does the NHL pull the plug Thursday or risk it all by doing nothing but waiting for what could be a disaster later?

 

[Acesolid]

Ok Daly told TVA Sport today that Jamison doesnt have the money yet and that they are waiting for Judge Fink to ake a decision...I guess I am missing something because I thought that Fink gave his decision about the Emergency clause....

http://www.journaldequebec.com/2012/06/26/jamison-cherche-toujours-des-investisseurs

No, they are waiting for his decision on the case of invalidating the ENTIRE AGREEMENT.

 

[cutchemist42]

That statement alone tells me it's all but done. I think Jamison is done seeking investors and actually has them all lined up, but the problem is not one of them is going to sign up to buy the team until it is an absolute certainty that the AMF is in place for the next 20 years. Which leads us to why we are in a holding partern and that being the "referendum watch" ( plus the 4 or 5 other issues that CF documented ).

Stepping back for a moment; does anyone think that with the current lease expiry on the 27th, that the NHL will seriously continue to wait for all the fallout from: the referendum, the various court challenges, the GWI gift clause challenge that hasn't even started yet, etc. to find out in November ( worst case ) its over and done with? Then what? You have a team in Glendale that has already started the season and is playing games ( let's assume there is no lockout ) where the CoG has been told they can't pay for the AMF. Who picks up the tab then? Do you move the team after the season has already started? Do you fold them?

And as far as Jamison... even if he had the money and investors, would you buy the team in his position given all the uncertainty when you are waiting for the AMF money to survive on?

Long winded, but the question is... does the NHL pull the plug Thursday or risk it all by doing nothing for what could be a disaster later?

If they wait till November and don't the result they were hoping for, I bet the losses could be 50-60 million for that year. Winnipeg averaged 11,000 in a lame duck season. Imagine Phoenix.......the NHL would be the ridicule of the sports world if they went ahead with waiting. I don't think its worth the risk.

 

[madhi19]

Feel free to correct me if am wrong but sale, relocation and a new owner would have to be approved by a BoG meeting at some point. So if like I speculated something does happen this week could we conclude that PKP got pre-approved last week.

 

[Confucius]

I doubt it for the following reasons:

1) there is no way the nhl is going to give Glendale its $50 million back. They won't give it to be nice.

2) They could have pulled the plug on Jamison a while ago said "He can't get enough investors, no one wants to own the team there under the circumstances we have to go"

Regarding your first point, there has been plenty of speculation in this thread, about how other cities would perceive the league just pulling up stakes and leaving. The city getting their 50 million back would go a long way in making the league look like good partners. Afterall the city didn't build the arena for the NHL, they built it for the west gate developers. The city did pay the NHL 50 million more or less.

As for the 2nd point, pulling the plug on Jamieson kills any leverage the league has with another buyer.

 

[cheswick]

If you don't mind me asking, what were his demands and when did he make those demands to PKP?

If true and PKP is being agressive with Bettman it lends credence to LeBrun's* comments that the NHL isn't exactly enamoured with the potential ownership group in Quebec.

*-I'm pretty sure it was LeBrun but I'm not 100% certain. It could have been one of the other members of ESPN. The comments were during an ESPN: Hockey Today podcast.

 

[Mungman]

When does the FA season begin? Would they allow decisions to be made about Phoenix's team knowing Quebec/Roy/PKP don't like the player moves?

Well, I remember two off seasons ago (IIRC, but it coulda been last offseason) the GM said he had prepared two FA plans. One as a youth based rebuild if the team was relocating, and the other a stay the course staying in PHX plan, reading through the lines at the time it was clear that this direction has come from someone who was in line to relocate the team. Now with hindsight it is clear that it was TNSE that desired this, and the team owner (the NHL) directed the GM to develop a plan for implementation.

So in short, if PKP is in line to get the team this year Maloney knows the direction his org is looking at (through the current ownership).