Phoenix CXXXVI - Coyotes up for sale again

[Dirty Old Man]

I know what you mean about the arena situation in Atlanta. We do have Bettman out in front of this by saying that Glendale is not viable, however. So that is part of the NHL dialogue as well, should they decide to pull the plug

You relo amigos cling to that line, and continue to willfully ignore soooo much else that gets stated...anyone have the exact date of that statement? It would be fun to keep a running calendar of how long the clinging goes on.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Which NHL sources? That's my question. Bob McKenzie talked to his sources after the BoG meetings and he ended up reporting that Austin has a better shot than Houston. But of course, now that someone tweets something that fits the local narrative here, that gets all the likes and replies.

Nothing in that tweet is new, anyway. We already know that Fertitta talked to the BoG about the NHL and that he discussed the Coyotes. We've known that since before Fertitta did that interview where he said that hockey doesn't work in the south.

Still nothing concrete.

Isn't it always possible that Feritta and his people have begun talking to NHL in wake of Seattle news? I mean its not unrealistic that something could come out of blue that would again put Houston as leading candidate

Hell maybe the idea of team maybe in Austin got the eye of Rockets owner and had him reconsider idea of NHL team in Houston

 

[Fairview]

You relo amigos cling to that line, and continue to willfully ignore soooo much else that gets stated...anyone have the exact date of that statement? It would be fun to keep a running calendar of how long the clinging goes on.

Nah....I am not worried when he made the statement. And I am quite aware of why he said what he said. And it is hilarious that after such a remark that the team is still stuck there. It is funny when Bettman steps onto a cow pie. What I was referring to is, in the event that the team relocates, that will be a part of the exit strategy...you know..." We told you so" line. DO NOT BLAME THE NHL, WE DID ALL WE COULD!!

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Isn't it always possible that Feritta and his people have begun talking to NHL in wake of Seattle news? I mean its not unrealistic that something could come out of blue that would again put Houston as leading candidate

Hell maybe the idea of team maybe in Austin got the eye of Rockets owner and had him reconsider idea of NHL team in Houston

That theory ignores a metric ton of context. I see why you might forward it, but with the reportage that's out there from McKenzie and Friedman - two sources I trust way more than anyone else in the hockey media - I don't think that what you're saying is what's happening.

 

[gstommylee]

Which NHL sources? That's my question. Bob McKenzie talked to his sources after the BoG meetings and he ended up reporting that Austin has a better shot than Houston. But of course, now that someone tweets something that fits the local narrative here, that gets all the likes and replies.

Nothing in that tweet is new, anyway. We already know that Fertitta talked to the BoG about the NHL and that he discussed the Coyotes. We've known that since before Fertitta did that interview where he said that hockey doesn't work in the south.

Still nothing concrete.

And who is going to be paying for that new arena + cost for the team in Austin? So easy to spend other people's money.

 

[hkymnky]

Isn't it always possible that Feritta and his people have begun talking to NHL in wake of Seattle news? I mean its not unrealistic that something could come out of blue that would again put Houston as leading candidate

Hell maybe the idea of team maybe in Austin got the eye of Rockets owner and had him reconsider idea of NHL team in Houston

Just spitballing, but what if Feritta is the potential owner eyeing Austin? Seeing as how he's the primary tenant in Houston he probably has some insight into the Arena Authority's reported lack of interest in hosting hockey. If he wants a team, but knows that he's unlikely to get support in bringing a team to Houston, would that make Austin be a viable alternative? I realize it's a stretch but it's not without some advantages. Being the primary tenant in two neighboring markets could provide significant leverage, and he'd have access to two independent revenue streams without having to worry about one cannibalizing the other.

I know that the NFL has rules against owners having teams in other sports across various markets, but do similar rules exist with the NBA or NHL? Has there ever been an instance of an owner being the primary tenant of two different arenas in neighboring markets?

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Shouldn't be issue with regard to owning multiple franchises across sports

Remember Jerry Reinsdorf owns the White Sox + Bulls and was in talks to buy Yotes years ago before it fell died

 

[gstommylee]

Just spitballing, but what if Feritta is the potential owner eyeing Austin? Seeing as how he's the primary tenant in Houston he probably has some insight into the Arena Authority's reported lack of interest in hosting hockey. If he wants a team, but knows that he's unlikely to get support in bringing a team to Houston, would that make Austin be a viable alternative? I realize it's a stretch but it's not without some advantages. Being the primary tenant in two neighboring markets could provide significant leverage, and he'd have access to two independent revenue streams without having to worry about one cannibalizing the other.

I know that the NFL has rules against owners having teams in other sports across various markets, but do similar rules exist with the NBA or NHL? Has there ever been an instance of an owner being the primary tenant of two different arenas in neighboring markets?

Why would Ferritta buy a team and pay even mroe $$$ for the arena in austin.

Btw NFL got rid of that rule.

 

[Glacial]

Which NHL sources? That's my question. Bob McKenzie talked to his sources after the BoG meetings and he ended up reporting that Austin has a better shot than Houston. But of course, now that someone tweets something that fits the local narrative here, that gets all the likes and replies.

Nothing in that tweet is new, anyway. We already know that Fertitta talked to the BoG about the NHL and that he discussed the Coyotes. We've known that since before Fertitta did that interview where he said that hockey doesn't work in the south.

Still nothing concrete.

What does it take to get Coyotes to Easter Island or Bora Bora rumors to get all the likes and replies?

 

[aqib]

Right.... and had Fertitta plucked down $650 million and asked for a franchise in Houston the league would have said “no thanks.”

We know from the Winnipeg relocation story that the NHL does talk to cities and ownership groups even when no active/public processes are going on. No matter what Bettman says about not having an active list. I was traveling the last few days so I have a few questions on the posts of the last few days:

1) There were a few mentions of the original plans for Westgate. I've seen pictures of the 3-D model of the full development. I agree that Glendale chipping in $180 million for the arena made sense in the context of that development isn't as terrible of a deal that people make it out to be. Why did that development need an arena in it? Why hasn't anyone picked up the development after the economy recovered?

2) What is the state of Gila River? Its 15 years old now, which is when arenas typically have their mid-life refresh?

3) Does anyone know how much is owed on the arena? I am sure the original bonds have been refinanced by now

 

[uhlaw97]

The most likely buyer will be Tilman Fertitta...............facilitating a move to Houston, where Fertitta already owns the Rockets and has a ready-made NHL arena waiting.

Sources say Houston Rockets owner Fertitta met with NHL Commissioner

 

[BKIslandersFan]

I suspect NHL already secretly talked to Fertita before and hence, Coyotes in the central division.

 

[uhlaw97]

It won't be Austin. Why would Tilman, the most loyal Houstonian ever, buy a team, and, rather than putting it in the NHL arena which he already owns, either pay a lease for or pay to build an arena in a much smaller, less lucrative market?

Sorry, but that doesn't really pass the common sense test.

If Fertitta buys the Yotes, then he'll move the team to Houston where they will play in his NHL-ready arena: the Toyota Center.

It wouldn't make sense for the NHL to pick Austin, a far smaller market, over Houston, the largest market in North America without a franchise.

Again.............doesn't pass the common sense test.

 

[member 157595]

The NHL has shown they are willing of supporting the Arizona franchise unless/until/even if(?) they get what they want, so it's anyone's guess what actually happens.

My intuition tells me that if Fertitta was willing to cough up $650M for the Coyotes the deal would have already been done.

 

[uhlaw97]

According to this, the Yotes are only worth about $300 million or so.

NHL franchise value by team 2017 | Statistic

Fertitta was both willing and able to pay more than TWICE that for a NBA franchise, without even so much as batting an eye, so I don't think that he'd be either unwilling or unable to do the same for Arizona's NHL team, even if there were a hefty relocation fee added to that.

It hasn't happened yet, but that's most likely because the NHL hasn't wanted it to happen. Don't ask me why, but the NHL has maintained a bizarre obsession with keeping a team in AZ, despite that franchise's constant historical failures on the ice, on their financial statements, and in their arena quest.

It's most likely NOT because of either lack of desire or lack of ability on Fertitta's part.

I hope that the NHL finally comes to its senses and relocates the Yotes to a larger market which will almost certainly have fewer such problems................like Houston!!!

 

[member 157595]

Houston's no guarantee either (though it has a huge corporate and massive population base to draw from so it could definitely work if done right), but the ground isn't salted like it is in Arizona. Even if they get their new arena in the Phoenix area that organization has a long way to go to earn back fan loyalty after the miserable treatment those fans endured almost since the outset.

If the highest offer for the Coyotes is $300M or less (I don't know how trustworthy those numbers are) they're not going to be sold in the first place unless the organization becomes insolvent IMO. The NHL needs to be able to issue their regularly-scheduled BS propaganda in order to spin a hypothetical sale in the way that reflects that franchise values are higher than they actually are, and even with a relocation fee tacked on you can't get up to $650M for a $300M sale.

 

[GuelphStormer]

You relo amigos cling to that line, and continue to willfully ignore soooo much else that gets stated...anyone have the exact date of that statement? It would be fun to keep a running calendar of how long the clinging goes on.

i do agree, us relo amigos are hopelessly stuck in this pool of rationality that by any objective measure surely mandates this franchise should have been relocated years ago.

what would be more fun though is to keep a running tally of how much this dead dog has cost the NHL (and its constituent owners), present and past Coyotes owners, and the various municipal and other government actors.

a rough guess is easily more than twice what the team is worth (even on a good day.) so much for not losing a penny, eh.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

i do agree, us relo amigos are hopelessly stuck in this pool of rationality that by any objective measure surely mandates this franchise should have been relocated years ago.

what would be more fun though is to keep a running tally of how much this dead dog has cost the NHL (and its constituent owners), present and past Coyotes owners, and the various municipal and other government actors.

a rough guess is easily more than twice what the team is worth (even on a good day.) so much for not losing a penny, eh.

If they are, it’s not your money so who cares?

 

[Dirty Old Man]

i do agree, us relo amigos are hopelessly stuck in this pool of rationality that by any objective measure surely mandates this franchise should have been relocated years ago.

what would be more fun though is to keep a running tally of how much this dead dog has cost the NHL (and its constituent owners), present and past Coyotes owners, and the various municipal and other government actors.

a rough guess is easily more than twice what the team is worth (even on a good day.) so much for not losing a penny, eh.

except I'm convinced most if not all of you really don't care at the end of the day - as BK suggests - how much money is made or lost, except for that evidence of such makes it more or less likely for a team to be moved.

 

[GuelphStormer]

If they are, it’s not your money so who cares?

except I'm convinced most if not all of you really don't care at the end of the day - as BK suggests - how much money is made or lost, except for that evidence of such makes it more or less likely for a team to be moved.

i dunno, i think a lot of people here are interested in the actual business side of this franchise, but i can understand why that might be frustrating for some other folks here.

 

[TheLegend]

According to this, the Yotes are only worth about $300 million or so.

NHL franchise value by team 2017 | Statistic

Fertitta was both willing and able to pay more than TWICE that for a NBA franchise, without even so much as batting an eye, so I don't think that he'd be either unwilling or unable to do the same for Arizona's NHL team, even if there were a hefty relocation fee added to that.

It hasn't happened yet, but that's most likely because the NHL hasn't wanted it to happen. Don't ask me why, but the NHL has maintained a bizarre obsession with keeping a team in AZ, despite that franchise's constant historical failures on the ice, on their financial statements, and in their arena quest.

It's most likely NOT because of either lack of desire or lack of ability on Fertitta's part.

I hope that the NHL finally comes to its senses and relocates the Yotes to a larger market which will almost certainly have fewer such problems................like Houston!!!

All this tire pumping of Fertitta here means absolute squat. If he wanted a team bad enough he could have plopped his $650 million down and got one. He obviously doesn't think Houston is that good of a market for hockey because he's said it so himself.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

All this tire pumping of Fertitta here means absolute squat. If he wanted a team bad enough he could have plopped his $650 million down and got one. He obviously doesn't think Houston is that good of a market for hockey because he's said it so himself.

He can’t think that and then go see if he can buy Coyotes and move them.

I am not saying he thinks Houston is a goldmine but downplaying Houston as a market is probably a negotiation ploy.

 

[TheLegend]

He can’t think that and then go see if he can buy Coyotes and move them.

I am not saying he thinks Houston is a goldmine but downplaying Houston as a market is probably a negotiation ploy.

Possible.... but the NHL frowns on talk like that.

I have no doubt Fertitta recently paid a visit to the league to inquire about housing an NHL franchise. He probably even asked the league about the Coyotes. But there's strong indication the league told him that they weren't available at this time. Couple that with Bob McKenzie reporting that the government entity in Houston in control of the arena was not receptive to bringing an NHL team in and that Houston is off their radar.

But now you get some local yokel TV reporter in Austin who hears about Fertitta's visit to the NHL and puts up only half the story. Local fans get all frothed up over it and that is what you have now.

EDIT: Originally said Friedman when it really was Bob McKenzie

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Suddenly, another possible pile of dirt emerges for the Coyotes!

I can't imagine another pro sports owner who has less leverage - other than Andy Barroway, of course - than Robert Sarver has in this situation. But man, if he did decide to leave town, the Coyotes would have the answer to all of their prayers.

 

[Roadrage]

Suddenly, another possible pile of dirt emerges for the Coyotes!

I can't imagine another pro sports owner who has less leverage - other than Andy Barroway, of course - than Robert Sarver has in this situation. But man, if he did decide to leave town, the Coyotes would have the answer to all of their prayers.

But who's going to pay for the reno's and upgrades? CoP is balking at paying Sarver $250MM for that and Barroway hasn't won the Powerball. I would guess it would cost more to gut parts of the arena for hockey sightlines and put in an ice plant if it doesn't already have one as well.