Phoenix CXXXVI - Coyotes up for sale again

[ranold26]

Ownership change coming in Arizona

Click to read more...

 

[Summer Rose]

Maybe this will finally be the stable ownership group we've needed since, well, ever since we've existed in Phoenix.

Who am I kidding though, we're the Coyotes. It will never happen.

 

[mouser]

It’s also unclear if Barroway will remain with the club in some capacity, either in a majority or minority role, though one league executive believes at best he’ll stay on as a minority owner.

So we don't have concrete info yet if this is a minority or majority owner they're going after.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

An important caveat to consider that wasn't in play previously was that the NHL now has an extremely vested interest in advocating an acceptable minimum sales price considering that we're in a new expansion era. If Vegas just paid half a billion a few years ago and Seattle is going to be paying even more than that soon, there's almost assuredly no chance that the NHL would allow a sale unless the amount in question was in that ballpark, which would assuredly limit buying options in Arizona. All depends on minority/majority amount for sale, but 49-51% of $500-650 million is still a lot.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

From that article: "As part of the expected sale of the Coyotes, the plan would be to keep the franchise in the Phoenix area, though it’s not believe(d) to be contingent on a new arena deal."

So...again, to repeat, Coyotes being sold != Coyotes relocating. Although it's sure to be claimed as such by some present. The apartment complex lease analogy still applies ("you wanna live another year here? sure!")

 

[Summer Rose]

From that article: "As part of the expected sale of the Coyotes, the plan would be to keep the franchise in the Phoenix area, though it’s not believe(d) to be contingent on a new arena deal."

So...again, to repeat, Coyotes being sold != Coyotes relocating. Although it's sure to be claimed as such by some present. The apartment complex lease analogy still applies ("you wanna live another year here? sure!")

Relocation is only likely to happen if Tilman Fertitta's name is involved in any group of investors. From what I understand, he's "not opposed" to an NHL team, but if an NHL team plays in the Toyota Center he wants to own the team. I doubt the city is willing to build a second arena for the NHL either.

 

[Llama19]

 

[Edgy]

An important caveat to consider that wasn't in play previously was that the NHL now has an extremely vested interest in advocating an acceptable minimum sales price considering that we're in a new expansion era. If Vegas just paid half a billion a few years ago and Seattle is going to be paying even more than that soon, there's almost assuredly no chance that the NHL would allow a sale unless the amount in question was in that ballpark, which would assuredly limit buying options in Arizona. All depends on minority/majority amount for sale, but 49-51% of $500-650 million is still a lot.

At some point, the NHL will be forced to reconsider that stance. A team that hemorrhages money isn't going to be good for the NHL or its owners. If you can't find a suitable arena and responsible ownership willing and able to keep it in Arizona and turn it into a profitable franchise, then you might as well cut your losses and move on.

 

[Mightygoose]

Well if this happens, this could finally lead to some real stability. Barroway simply doesn't have the financial means to run this on his own it seems.

Interesting that it's not contingent on a new arena so one would think that a 7 year no move or a lease extension is in order.

 

[MNNumbers]

First, I'm not sure this is really NEW news. We've known that Barroway was looking for investors for awhile. I'm not sure who Pagnotta is, but he linked his own website, so there isn't much verification here, really. Just one guy writing, "According to NHL sources...." Well, who are those.....
Continuing, he doesn't know if Barroway stays in the organization. He doesn't know if the sale is contingent on a new arena. So, it's a fairly poorly developed rumor....

Continuing....
As was mentioned, there are really only 2 out of town possibilities: Someone in Quebec, and Fertitta. Let's consider the possibilities of both of those:
First: Quebec. First thing to consider is that the league would only do that as a VERY LAST resort. Second thing to consider is that in the event such a thing were happening, it would be the tightest held secret in North America. So, this is NOT the case here.
Second: Fertitta. Again, highly unlikely that news breaks in this way.
My conclusion therefore: This is NOT a relocation buyer.

Continuing further:
I suspect that what is happening in Barroway has run out of money. There has been lots of information here about how much losses are in the Valley. I think that the Vegas expansion helped a little, but we all know Barroway isn't filthy rich. So, it may well be a sale from a poor negotiating position.

I also suspect that the individual, whoever it is, is from Bettman's rolodex, and is from out-of-town. That describes the hedge about the arena, and so on.

Not sure there is much else to say until we know identities of people, or get verification from another source.

 

[TheLegend]

First, I'm not sure this is really NEW news. We've known that Barroway was looking for investors for awhile. I'm not sure who Pagnotta is, but he linked his own website, so there isn't much verification here, really. Just one guy writing, "According to NHL sources...." Well, who are those.....
Continuing, he doesn't know if Barroway stays in the organization. He doesn't know if the sale is contingent on a new arena. So, it's a fairly poorly developed rumor....

Continuing....
As was mentioned, there are really only 2 out of town possibilities: Someone in Quebec, and Fertitta. Let's consider the possibilities of both of those:
First: Quebec. First thing to consider is that the league would only do that as a VERY LAST resort. Second thing to consider is that in the event such a thing were happening, it would be the tightest held secret in North America. So, this is NOT the case here.
Second: Fertitta. Again, highly unlikely that news breaks in this way.
My conclusion therefore: This is NOT a relocation buyer.

Continuing further:
I suspect that what is happening in Barroway has run out of money. There has been lots of information here about how much losses are in the Valley. I think that the Vegas expansion helped a little, but we all know Barroway isn't filthy rich. So, it may well be a sale from a poor negotiating position.

I also suspect that the individual, whoever it is, is from Bettman's rolodex, and is from out-of-town. That describes the hedge about the arena, and so on.

Not sure there is much else to say until we know identities of people, or get verification from another source.

Thanks MNN.....

Nice to see someone take an overall analytical view of this.

We’ve pretty much have known something was going on in the background. I’m thinking that whatever transaction there is in the works it’s now at the point where it can no longer be completely kept quiet.

Pagnotta also mentioned further in the article about an entity looking to acquire Ottawa. So this might be a group who’s been visiting Honest Uncle Gary’s Franchise Emporium and kicking all the tires.

 

[MNNumbers]

Thanks MNN.....

Nice to see someone take an overall analytical view of this.

We’ve pretty much have known something was going on in the background. I’m thinking that whatever transaction there is in the works it’s now at the point where it can no longer be completely kept quiet.

Pagnotta also mentioned further in the article about an entity looking to acquire Ottawa. So this might be a group who’s been visiting Honest Uncle Gary’s Franchise Emporium and kicking all the tires.

It's not surprising that they are for sale. We all knew that Barroway doesn't have deep enough pockets, and borrowing capability won't keep up with losses, even if franchise values rise.

I'm not sure I trust Pagnotta. Craig Morgan verifies the news, but I'm not sure I'd place full confidence in that either.

And, the reporting seems to suggest it's still tire kicking: Complex financial deal, etc.....It would be more complex if there were arena rights in there, too, but there aren't, so the complexity must pertain to debt, and that the league requires the sale to look like it was worth 500M+, for franchise values sake (or close to it, see the Carolina sale).

It's also no surprise that the sale would be advertised as contingent on keeping the team in Arizona. That, I'm sure, is a league requirement. And, the NHL won't do anything else, at least not publicly.

I doubt it's the same group as Ottawa. There is a group there, with some basis in Quebec actually, who wants to develop the land that Melnyk currently is negotiating rights for. So, there won't be any tire-kicking in Ottawa. Melnyk stays until he is kicked out, and then it's a local group that will buy the team, and probably do the new development at LeBreton Flats.

You guys are secure with a team for awhile yet, I think. I don't think I believe any rumors about arenas, though. I'm convinced that the Yotes will run medium sized losses no matter where in the Valley they play. A new arena in either location currently rumored would be better, but not a panacea. And, the new arena is going to have to really fight for bookings, so there may not be much extra revenue available there, either, with 2 others already in the area. I'm going to need more definite information before I'm totally believing that one.

Mostly, I'm glad for Glendale as a city. They wanted hockey. They've got it, and they are not giving away the farm for it. As long as that stays the way it is, I have no complaints. The owners are private individuals. NHL is a private organization. They can do whatever they want, AFAIC. I just don't want them blackmailing any more municipalities.

 

[cbcwpg]

Until someone does sign on the dotted line, it can be a long way to go. I don't think team ownership gets more complex than in Arizona.

 

[cbcwpg]

Well if this happens, this could finally lead to some real stability. Barroway simply doesn't have the financial means to run this on his own it seems.

Interesting that it's not contingent on a new arena so one would think that a 7 year no move or a lease extension is in order.

I just can't understand why anyone would want to buy the team now, without a new arena on board, and more so if the NHL is insisting on the team staying in Arizona. The NHL itself has said this franchise is not viable in Glendale... if nothing has changed on that stance, and you have no option of a new home , why buy it?

 

[Mightygoose]

So with some news coming out today, is it time re-open the megathread and insert this?

Megathreads don't always have to be about negative items

I'm curious to see how quickly the news gets posted on the NHL partner sites (Sportsnet, to a lesser extent TSN) and make the rounds.

Should not expected to be boring times between now and when the BoG meets early next month.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

Can't wait for this dramedy to end. The Coyotes don't just need a new owner, they need a new market.

How long is the joke going to last? It's not gonna work in Arizona. Move this team the f*** out to a proper hockey market!

 

[mouser]

So with some news coming out today, is it time re-open the megathread and insert this?

Megathreads don't always have to be about negative items

I'm curious to see how quickly the news gets posted on the NHL partner sites (Sportsnet, to a lesser extent TSN) and make the rounds.

Should not expected to be boring times between now and when the BoG meets early next month.

We're gonna leave the megathread closed for now and let the ownership discussion continue here.

 

[Skip To My Lou]

For f***s sake, this is getting ridiculous.

Can they just get a legitimate solution now?

 

[Grudy0]

Of course we can't get a legitimate solution - we can't even get a picture on this rumor. From the article:

It’s also unclear if Barroway will remain with the club in some capacity, either in a majority or minority role, though one league executive believes at best he’ll stay on as a minority owner.

So we still have no real news over the news we've had over the past few months. We know that Barroway has been looking for investors, and this only proves it.

 

[Slashers98]

The same old story. Lather, rinse, repeat.

 

[MNNumbers]

One liners about moving the team are the reason for NOT re-opening the mega thread.

Solid discussion would be nice, please.

FOR EVERYONE'S SAKE:
PLEASE READ!!!!!!!

Since BK:
League ownership lasted 4 years, in 2 of which the city paid them 25M/yr for losses
IA (LeBlanc, et al) lasted 3 years, in which the city paid them, net, probably a total of 20M in Arena Management
Barroway has been there 3 years.

There probably is about 300M+ of accumulated losses.

Barroway, the current owner, was NEVER going to be a long term owner. He doesn't have deep enough pockets to survive.

For those who say, 'MOVE THEM ALREADY!!!!', there is no place to move them. Fertitta in Houston doesn't want to pay the price, and Quebec, if still possible in theory, is on the wrong end of the continent.

The question is: Would a new arena solve the problems? It's a hard question. But it is the only hope....

That Barroway is selling is NOT an indictment of the current situation. It's simply an acknowledgement that he is out of cash.

 

[Slashers98]

One liners about moving the team are the reason for NOT re-opening the mega thread.

Solid discussion would be nice, please.

FOR EVERYONE'S SAKE:
PLEASE READ!!!!!!!

Since BK:
League ownership lasted 4 years, in 2 of which the city paid them 25M/yr for losses
IA (LeBlanc, et al) lasted 3 years, in which the city paid them, net, probably a total of 20M in Arena Management
Barroway has been there 3 years.

There probably is about 300M+ of accumulated losses.

Barroway, the current owner, was NEVER going to be a long term owner. He doesn't have deep enough pockets to survive.

For those who say, 'MOVE THEM ALREADY!!!!', there is no place to move them. Fertitta in Houston doesn't want to pay the price, and Quebec, if still possible in theory, is on the wrong end of the continent.

The question is: Would a new arena solve the problems? It's a hard question. But it is the only hope....

That Barroway is selling is NOT an indictment of the current situation. It's simply an acknowledgement that he is out of cash.

Nobody is going to invest in this dumpster fire and keep the team in Arizona. Please stop saying the team cannot be moved. Houston and Quebec City are both solid options when the NHL doesn't have a choice to move the Coyotes.

 

[StreetHawk]

I just can't understand why anyone would want to buy the team now, without a new arena on board, and more so if the NHL is insisting on the team staying in Arizona. The NHL itself has said this franchise is not viable in Glendale... if nothing has changed on that stance, and you have no option of a new home , why buy it?

Where is this new arena coming from?

Sarver the Suns owner doesn’t want to share a new one with the coyotes. Makes sense since the suns make more money as the sole tenant in a renovated TSRA.

Plus, they could increase their corporate support revenue if the coyotes are basically forced to leave without hope of a new arena.

Other cities have seen what happened in Glendale. Doubt they are interested in investing in an arena. Phoenix is the main Center so once the TSRA gets a remodel that is going to remain the main site for concerts and shows.

2022 is the date that the suns 30 year lease expires if the arena is not up to nba standards which most expect it won’t be. So we should be coming to a conclusion soon on whether Phoenix or Scotsdale is an option for the coyotes.

They honestly never stood a chance since they arrived in 1996 to a building that opened in 1992 that wasn’t configured to support nhl hockey. What city would build a brand new arena when one is under a decade old?

 

[Glacial]

This is my shocked face . I knew this would be the next big news item to break, likewise with Barroway keeping a token presence. Let's spin the revolving door wheel of fortune to find the new Coyotes owner!

And of course the sale is predicated on staying in Arizona. The true owners are the NHL. They want this soap opera to keep going on, so anyone who "buys" in has to play ball, err, puck.

Coyotes Team President: "Of course I'm going to focus on the ice, that's the only thing constant in this organization! I'll have to scratch out Barroway's name off the Christmas cards mailing list though."

I just can't understand why anyone would want to buy the team now, without a new arena on board, and more so if the NHL is insisting on the team staying in Arizona. The NHL itself has said this franchise is not viable in Glendale... if nothing has changed on that stance, and you have no option of a new home , why buy it?

Well, when one isn't wealthy enough to acquire a full-fledged franchise and just has to front a certain amount of money, with the NHL apparently offering to make certain said 'owner' loses no money on the investment, anyone who wants the feeling of being team owner for a year (or more) would be interested. That's how there was the clown show that was IceArizona, the parade of tirekickers and minority owner tier owners like Barroway and that other guy whose name eludes me at the moment (who now owns a small part of the Blues or Wild), while credible names like Reinsdorf go wide eyed & pale and run for the hills. It's very lucrative to a certain demographic looking to rent a franchise.

 

[MNNumbers]

Nobody is going to invest in this dumpster fire and keep the team in Arizona. Please stop saying the team cannot be moved. Houston and Quebec City are both solid options when the NHL doesn't have a choice to move the Coyotes.

Neither becomes a solid option until there are no more people willing to pay to own the team in Phoenix.

Come on Slasher and Llama. You guys know this.