Phoenix CXXXVI - Coyotes up for sale again

[SkalbaniasGhost]

There's a lot going on. The Coyotes are a perennial question mark obviously that's been uncertain so long, the uncertainty is developing a weathered patina, the Raiders as you note, then the Rays stadium plan fell apart. The prevailing assumption is the Rays will just accept being stuck in their ugly, archaic ballpark (although without sewage leaks and dead mice in the soda machines), play there for 10 years, then ???, although I would be surprised if MLB didn't have a back-up plan for the Rays if Tampa Bay became a dead end. I find it hard to believe they would just accept wasting a full decade in a park they want to get out of with no chance of a new one. Any Montrealers wanna do plane tracking or keep an ear out towards the relevant parties?

Montreal's MLB stadium plans will be revealed the weekend of Mar 22/24.It's going in the Peel Basin.There is an out in the Rays lease that allows them to play up to 10 games a year outside of the Tampa market.They will play some in Montreal/San Antonio in 202o.
Fun times ahead.

 

[Glacial]

Montreal's MLB stadium plans will be revealed the weekend of Mar 22/24.It's going in the Peel Basin.There is an out in the Rays lease that allows them to play up to 10 games a year outside of the Tampa market.They will play some in Montreal/San Antonio in 202o.
Fun times ahead.

Interesting. I had not heard that.

On the subject of Portland a few posts ago, remember, if the Rays relocate sooner rather than later, they need a MLB-capable ballpark to play in now/then before a new stadium were built. Montreal fits that bill. Not sure what Portland has now as last I heard, the state had low-A as its highest level of baseball. And just building new AAA ballparks with public money takes Nashville, 2 NC cities (I forget which 2 of the 3 big ones) off the table for committing to allowing something new that immediately obsolesces what they just funded a few years ago. Portland's prospective owner group released their plans but plans are just plans until things actually get signed and shovels go in the ground or else the Oakland A's would've built a few stadiums over the past 12 years and the Rays would've built 2 new stadiums in the past decade.

 

[aqib]

Yeah, Sarver will soon find out that threatening is not an intelligent negotiating strategy.

Isn't threatening what basically every sports team does during a negotiation?

 

[gstommylee]

Isn't threatening what basically every sports team does during a negotiation?

Sure but he has a very very weak position when making that threat. He can't move the team for another 4 years.

 

[voyageur]

Mark Berman‏ @MarkBermanFox26 1h1 hour ago
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NHL sources: #Rockets owner @TillmanJFertitta has met with NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman about potential of bringing the NHL to Houston. Fertitta has had preliminary talks about buying & relocating the @ArizonaCoyotes to Houston. Nothing on that happening now. No decisions close

I really wonder how this is going to play out. I mean Fertitta sees that it took True North $170 million ($60 million for relocation) to acquire a franchise in 2011, a franchise that was more successful than the one he is attempting purchase. Even with inflationary values of franchises, I wonder how it works. Does Barroway keep a minority share, from his equity, which is mostly debt payments? What is the actual value of the Coyotes, which is the closest there is to a league operated team? It has to be less than Vegas. Are the Stars an accurate measure of what a Houston franchise is worth, or are there more revenue streams out of Houston. Access to TV in Louisiana, Mississippi?

 

[Major4Boarding]

Wow! The "Gimme my new digs" rodeo has really begun to dust up now hasn't it

There's a lot going on. The Coyotes are a perennial question mark obviously that's been uncertain so long, the uncertainty is developing a weathered patina, the Raiders as you note, then the Rays stadium plan fell apart. The prevailing assumption is the Rays will just accept being stuck in their ugly, archaic ballpark (although without sewage leaks and dead mice in the soda machines), play there for 10 years, then ???, although I would be surprised if MLB didn't have a back-up plan for the Rays if Tampa Bay became a dead end. I find it hard to believe they would just accept wasting a full decade in a park they want to get out of with no chance of a new one. Any Montrealers wanna do plane tracking or keep an ear out towards the relevant parties?

I absolutely, unequivocally guarantee you they will not be there till the end of their lease.

although I would be surprised if MLB didn't have a back-up plan for the Rays if Tampa Bay became a dead end

I'm fairly confident that Commissioner Manfred has that backup plan well in hand (Letter sent yesterday to Tampa Sports Authority lawyer)

I find it hard to believe they would just accept wasting a full decade in a park they want to get out of with no chance of a new one.

They won't.

Any Montrealers wanna do plane tracking or keep an ear out towards the relevant parties?

I'll keep you posted

I have the *solution for everyone's woes. Stay with me

Raiders can play at Raymond James Stadium in Tampa next season and the Bucs can play their remaining 7 2019 "home" games in London (already playing one there anyway). Raiders would be a better draw than the current team that plagues the turf at RayJay right now anyway. Then the Bucs Brexit, excuse me, exit (boo'd outta London more likely), taking with them the Bucs owners (Glazers), and then ManU can have new ownership. To the delight of the older ManU faithful.

Raiders can then go to London, Bucs then head to Vegas instead, then the Rays and Hillsborough County can then retrofit RayJay into the ballpark they're so longing to have.

And in case the A's stadium deal somehow absolutely intentionally decides to inject the Red Matter into itself and collapse from within, they can then occupy the Trop in St Pete and try their luck pitching _____________ (insert one of Montreal, Vegas, Portland, Charlotte, San Antonio, etc) for a new stadium and/or lease in the meantime.

Sarver can take the suns wherever he pleases and the Coyotes can occupy TSRA, as TFP suggests.

All problems solved!!!

*This solution was only meant to be tongue-in-cheek to lighten up the atmosphere in here a bit. In no way is any of this possible... or is it?

 

[aqib]

I really wonder how this is going to play out. I mean Fertitta sees that it took True North $170 million ($60 million for relocation) to acquire a franchise in 2011, a franchise that was more successful than the one he is attempting purchase. Even with inflationary values of franchises, I wonder how it works. Does Barroway keep a minority share, from his equity, which is mostly debt payments? What is the actual value of the Coyotes, which is the closest there is to a league operated team? It has to be less than Vegas. Are the Stars an accurate measure of what a Houston franchise is worth, or are there more revenue streams out of Houston. Access to TV in Louisiana, Mississippi?

He had tried to buy the Rockets when Alexander bought them. He was outbid by a couple of milion (Alexander paid $85 million and his bid was something over $80 million if I recall correctly) he just paid $2.2 billion for the Rockets. So if he had upped his bid years ago he would have saved himself $2.1 billion. So given the inflation of sports team prices he might not be inclined to play hard ball as strongly this time around.

As far as what they are worth, a lot of that depends on not just the cash flow they generate but also, the higher prices he can charge for Rockets-stuff. From things like arena signage, to luxury box deals, etc.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

If there is a smoke, there usually is a fire.Way too many smoke, for there not to be a fire here. Coyotes in Central Division for instance.

Especially NHL. I suspect they are in the process of haggling over dollars, and relocation fee. Once that is done, Coyotes are Houston bound.

 

[TheLegend]

If there is a smoke, there usually is a fire.Way too many smoke, for there not to be a fire here. Coyotes in Central Division for instance.

Especially NHL. I suspect they are in the process of haggling over dollars, and relocation fee. Once that is done, Coyotes are Houston bound.

There's been nine years worth of smoke......

What you have here is the equivalent of LA smog.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

If there is a smoke, there usually is a fire.Way too many smoke, for there not to be a fire here.

Funny how you can only see the smoke if it's coming from a particular fire. I mean, over at F40 there have been multiple sources indicating a new ownership and arena deal in the works, and that got pooh-poohed as wishful fan thinking, but then a Houston sportscaster resurrects months-old intel in a tweet and suddenly THE MOVING VANS ARE READY FOR LOADING.

Par for the course, I suppose.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Funny how you can only see the smoke if it's coming from a particular fire. I mean, over at F40 there have been multiple sources indicating a new ownership and arena deal in the works, and that got pooh-poohed as wishful fan thinking, but then a Houston sportscaster resurrects months-old intel in a tweet and suddenly THE MOVING VANS ARE READY FOR LOADING.

Par for the course, I suppose.

Bettman's rolodex has not failed this franchise over the years, but it only takes one time.

While I think we'll see an investor come onboard, I don't see how the quality of that investor will be anything but sketchy at best.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

Funny how you can only see the smoke if it's coming from a particular fire. I mean, over at F40 there have been multiple sources indicating a new ownership and arena deal in the works, and that got pooh-poohed as wishful fan thinking, but then a Houston sportscaster resurrects months-old intel in a tweet and suddenly THE MOVING VANS ARE READY FOR LOADING.

Par for the course, I suppose.

... and also conveniently ignoring the Houston local in another thread on here who claims that the hockey infrastructure just isn't there, implying it's sort of been deteriorating after the AHL Aeros left...and one would think he would be in favor of that not being true...

 

[BKIslandersFan]

There's been nine years worth of smoke......

What you have here is the equivalent of LA smog.

Which is wrong because Fertita just bought the Rockets... thus opening up Houston to NHL, possibly.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Which is wrong because Fertita just bought the Rockets... thus opening up Houston to NHL, possibly.

the question is how much before Fertiita goes into BK

 

[Glacial]

There's been nine years worth of smoke......

What you have here is the equivalent of LA smog.

It's more like a volcano. The caldera smokes and some fumaroles spring up making it seem like something is imminent, but as is with volcanoes, sometimes it's the lead-up to an eruption, or usually the volcano remains basically dormant for decades, centuries, or millennia. ... Or maybe the Coyotes have been enveloped by a pyroclastic cloud a decade ago Pompeii-style and we haven't quite noticed it yet and think they're just pining for the fjords of the East Valley.

 

[PCSPounder]

Interesting. I had not heard that.

On the subject of Portland a few posts ago, remember, if the Rays relocate sooner rather than later, they need a MLB-capable ballpark to play in now/then before a new stadium were built. Montreal fits that bill. Not sure what Portland has now as last I heard, the state had low-A as its highest level of baseball.

Just FYI... Portland has a development agreement between the baseball backers and the Port of Portland. No stadium yet. My "read between the lines" analysis is that the surrounding development comes first, adds money to the organization, then they play for the stadium. It is a process that is made to sound like it could draw Oakland or Tampa, but really is only practical for an expansion situation.

Someone who backed a previous iteration thought that the Single A park in Hillsboro could be expanded to 15,000 temporarily for MLB. Eh... it's not impossible to see, it is a stretch... and it's just impossible to believe Hillsboro would contribute resources to that.

 

[Fenway]

Brian Burke believes in Phoenix

 

[Dirty Old Man]

Brian Burke believes in Phoenix

BoH in a nutshell right there - big loud naysayer in the middle; kinda guy who wears shades indoors (not that there's anything wrong with that, if one is self-conscious of a visible eye problem)

 

[Fairview]

Well, it is Brian Burke, so anything thing he says can't be taken seriously in any way.

 

[JimAnchower]

It won't be Austin. Why would Tilman, the most loyal Houstonian ever, buy a team, and, rather than putting it in the NHL arena which he already owns, either pay a lease for or pay to build an arena in a much smaller, less lucrative market?

University of Texas is looking to privately finance their own basketball arena. I don't see Austin needing two, large indoor arenas, nor allowing a NHL team to be a partner in their planned arena. It's supposed to be smaller, more intimate (10-12,000 capacity).

University of Texas Seeks Private Partner to Develop New Longhorns Basketball Arena - UT News

 

[PCSPounder]

University of Texas is looking to privately finance their own basketball arena. I don't see Austin needing two, large indoor arenas, nor allowing a NHL team to be a partner in their planned arena. It's supposed to be smaller, more intimate (10-12,000 capacity).

University of Texas Seeks Private Partner to Develop New Longhorns Basketball Arena - UT News

Someone tried to convince me on the Austin forum that OVG (Seattle's arena developer) would influence UT to somehow expand their wishes...

...and insert "So I guess you're saying there's a chance" meme here...

...but OVG will be in it for the concert business first in much the way they approached Seattle. I don't think that means 18,500 for basketball and 17,000 for hockey. Correlation is not causation, yada yada yada.

 

[TheLegend]

Which is wrong because Fertita just bought the Rockets... thus opening up Houston to NHL, possibly.

Which means absolutely nothing in this case.

 

[aqib]

Brian Burke believes in Phoenix

Yeah Burke needs to spend some time in this forum...

 

[TheLegend]

Yeah Burke needs to spend some time in this forum...

Certainly...... with all the "experts" in how the NHL should be run lurking around.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Certainly...... with all the "experts" in how the NHL should be run lurking around.

Any mild correct statement/opinion that we stumble across is more a function of volume than skill