Phoenix CXXVIII: The Grass is Always Greener On The Other Side Of The I-17

[Sparty]

Was hoping Nelson would get the job in Detroit after Blashill's inevitable firing, but Arizona is in a much better position to succeed right now. Can't blame him if he leaves for this job.

 

[Killion]

Another thought crossed my mind in regards to a joint arena with the Suns and it’s just a wild thought...

Yeah but the timing's all off here, wonky... Sarver is in no hurry, the Coyotes are. Secondly youve got an outgoing Mayor (fixed terms) who is playing political football with this issue (ambitious, eyeing a run up the ladder, State Seat) and who will be long gone before Sarver has to do much of anything. Just sit back, enjoy the action, watch the sideshow. Under absolutely no obligation to be supportive, compliant. He can smile, shake hands, use whatever Nate & Gary "discover" in like 2020+ if useful.

 

[JimAnchower]

The city authorized additional money to examine looking at renovating the arena to make it good for hockey.

I don't know if that is completely accurate. They are looking at the costs of modernizing the arena vs. a completely new arena. I don't think they've ever stated that the renovation would be done with hockey in mind.

 

[TheLegend]

Another thought crossed my mind in regards to a joint arena with the Suns and it’s just a wild thought.

Maybe this attempt has nothing to do at all with trying to work out a deal with Sarver but it’s more about laying blame if the team has to leave. They can already blame Glendale, they can already blame ASU and they can already blame the state. Surely, Bettman doesn’t want to blame an NBA owner who is a business partner with many of the other owners. So how can they have anyone else to blame or justify leaving without the optics of exhausting all options?

Answer: City of Phoenix itself.

Keep in mind the day after Glendale voted to terminate the lease, Mayor Stanton spoke up proclaiming his support to get the Coyotes back downtown.

April of 2016, during a state of the city address, Stanton once again mentioned his desire for a new downtown arena for the Coyotes and the Suns. Not to mention during the last legislature session he spoke out against a new East Valley Arena saying it makes more sense to have a shared use building downtown.

The city authorized additional money to examine looking at renovating the arena to make it good for hockey. Though the revenue split will remain the issue, the optics of building something for the Coyotes remains.

Well, Mr. Stanton it’s time to put your money where your mouth is! Perhaps the meeting with both parties is to figure out the numbers on how a share facility can work for both teams….price tag then gets sent to Phoenix…weather it’s just construction costs…or…build in a ‘management fee’ for the Coyotes to ‘manage’ while the Suns gets the revenues the building will normally generate.

If the city somehow ponies up, then both teams have enough $$$ coming in to make it work. Otherwise, it doesn’t get support of council. No real pressure as the Coyotes don’t play in the city so nothing to lose.

If they say no, then who else has spoken up with a desire to keep the team and ‘can’t come through’?…Glendale: check, Sen. Worsley who represents the state: check. Mayor of Mesa…sort of…see Worsley…..Mayor Stanton….check-mate?

Goose..... the possibility that the league is doing all this as an exit strategy is certainly plausible, but optics would probably dictate that they would simply state they exhausted all possibilities and just couldn't make it happen.

Also.... I said awhile back that I wouldn't be surprised if there's another attempt to get a taxing district bill passed in the next legislature session. Only this time you could have the city of Phoenix, Suns and Coyotes all lobbying for it.

A couple of legislators did hint that if there was more private money involved in it they might be more receptive. In this case you have both the Suns and Coyotes contributing and if they came up with 1/2 to 2/3 of it up front who knows??

 

[mesamonster]

What reports? "Coyotes lose buckets of money" is not a new thing. If the league wants to subsidize the team for various reasons, that's on them. They've got Barroway holding at least some of the bag right now.

The problem with your theory XX is that even with league subsidies (development Fund and Revenue Sharing) the team still loses oodles of cash. It is widely known that AB is leveraged on top of leverage and has little cash of his own. You tell me how an individual in this situation makes it work? Does a manufacturer of widgets getting Tif`s and other Government cheese survive for long if they can`t sell their product for anything close to what it costs to make? Same thing here, too much debt and not enough revenue, it simply is not sustainable.

 

[TheLegend]

I don't know if that is completely accurate. They are looking at the costs of modernizing the arena vs. a completely new arena. I don't think they've ever stated that the renovation would be done with hockey in mind.

Blue said the consultant will also look at whether the existing arena could be compatible with hockey. The Arizona Coyotes continue to search for a deal that would allow them to exit their tumultuous relationship with Glendale.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix/2017/03/02/remodeled-phoenix-suns-arena-downtown-city-studying-idea/98497504/

 

[mesamonster]

Goose..... the possibility that the league is doing all this as an exit strategy is certainly plausible, but optics would probably dictate that they would simply state they exhausted all possibilities and just couldn't make it happen.

Also.... I said awhile back that I wouldn't be surprised if there's another attempt to get a taxing district bill passed in the next legislature session. Only this time you could have the city of Phoenix, Suns and Coyotes all lobbying for it.

A couple of legislators did hint that if there was more private money involved in it they might be more receptive. In this case you have both the Suns and Coyotes contributing and if they came up with 1/2 to 2/3 of it up front who knows??

Legend, AB does not have the money to contribute to the building of a new arena!

 

[madhi19]

Friedman's 30 thoughts from today

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-trade-value-first-round-pick/

Supports Shannon's comments from 2 weeks ago:

"Off the ice, this is a huge year for Arizona. Bettman and NBA Commissioner Adam Silver have taken the lead on a new arena from Barroway and Suns owner Robert Sarver, who is notoriously difficult. Can they get it done?"

Friedman is getting fed the same bs that Shannon was fed. Note that like John he does not have a direct quote from either Silver, Sarver, and even Bettman. At best it the NHL floating a trial balloon to see how Sarver and the NBA will react, at worse it a wild goose chase fed by the NHL to keep a lid on the situation. While these guys are happy to report the "unofficial official" line they don't go digging too hard in Yotes business.

 

[Llama19]

Legend, AB does not have the money to contribute to the building of a new arena!

Sure he does...Barroway just has to become more leveraged than he already is...

 

[cobra427]

Not saying they are moving, just saying they could move, and I can come up with a lot of business ( this being a business forum and all ) reasons why. All you can come up with is "they haven't moved yet" and Vegas just got a team. Well, what happens in Vegas , stays in Vegas, and has zero bearing on what happens in Arizona.

Agreed, anything could happen NHL/Top 5 market/1 more expansion fee/Problems with east coast franchises. That is why they are staying in AZ, pretty simple.

 

[TheLegend]

Legend, AB does not have the money to contribute to the building of a new arena!

And you know this how ?????

Pre takeover IA claimed to be able to pledge $170 million towards a new facility. Nobody ever seemed to prove they didn't have it. Just kept reiterating "they don't have it". To be honest I was curious about where it would come from myself.

Now that we have just Barroway the question is still there. Nobody has yet to nail down what the guy is actually worth or what funds he might have access to.

 

[Mightygoose]

Also.... I said awhile back that I wouldn't be surprised if there's another attempt to get a taxing district bill passed in the next legislature session. Only this time you could have the city of Phoenix, Suns and Coyotes all lobbying for it.

A couple of legislators did hint that if there was more private money involved in it they might be more receptive. In this case you have both the Suns and Coyotes contributing and if they came up with 1/2 to 2/3 of it up front who knows??

Another attempt at the legislature is another possibility with all of parties involved as above. Money generated through the taxing district could be something residual that will bring $$$ to the Coyotes while Sarver keeps his share of the building revenue.

A possible issue with that is going that route is the timing would mean they would have to use the auto-renewal and commit to losses in 18/19. Their financing may allow another year anyways.

Pre filing starts in November if I recall correctly.

 

[TheLegend]

Another attempt at the legislature is another possibility with all of parties involved as above. Money generated through the taxing district could be something residual that will bring $$$ to the Coyotes while Sarver keeps his share of the building revenue.

A possible issue with that is going that route is the timing would mean they would have to use the auto-renewal and commit to losses in 18/19. Their financing may allow another year anyways.

Pre filing starts in November if I recall correctly.

Something like that....

There's one other scenario I didn't bring up because it's probably a bit far fetched and that would be the DBacks also getting involved. A taxation district that would include a joint use arena and Chase Field. But that's asking way too much.

 

[TheLegend]

Friedman is getting fed the same bs that Shannon was fed. note that like John he does not have a direct quote from either Silver, Sarver, and even Bettman. At best it the NHL floating a trial balloon to see how Sarver and the NBA will react, at worse it a wild goose chase fed by the NHL to keep a lid on the situation. While these guys are happy to report the "unofficial official" line they don't go digging too hard in Yotes business.

Okay.... but they certainly beat our local reporters to the punch 95% of the time.

 

[Killion]

To be honest I was curious about where it would come from myself.

.... UAE. Abu Dhabi. AEG beyond connected. Hardwired me olde Son.

 

[TheLegend]

.... UAE. Abu Dhabi. AEG beyond connected. Hardwired me olde Son.

Well then let's get er done so we can stop obsessing over it.

 

[Killion]

Well then let's get er done so we can stop obsessing over it.

Its money. This league doesnt care who they get into bed with. Wake-up with fleas? Deal with it then. No problem.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Friedman is getting fed the same bs that Shannon was fed.

Shannon I could see getting fed BS, but Friedge is a lot more reliable and I think his dope is genuine. Obviously, YMMV.

 

[WildGopher]

Also.... I said awhile back that I wouldn't be surprised if there's another attempt to get a taxing district bill passed in the next legislature session. Only this time you could have the city of Phoenix, Suns and Coyotes all lobbying for it.

A couple of legislators did hint that if there was more private money involved in it they might be more receptive. In this case you have both the Suns and Coyotes contributing and if they came up with 1/2 to 2/3 of it up front who knows??

I think you can expect some sort of plan or proposal to be considered for introduction to the legislature or city of Phoenix. The second thing you mention above - the level of Coyotes' contribution - could be the real sticking point.

The way I read the Worsley bill, IA planned to have no net contribution. Sure, they were going to put up about 40% of the construction cost initially, but then they'd get that back over the years from the 2% tax they would be given 1/2 of. So it's a bigger leap than it sounds for a legislator to suggest they pay "more," when IA was effectively planning to pay nothing at all.

Would IA be able to make the leap all the way from a zero net investment to a significant one? That'll be one of the interesting things to watch - just what the new ownership structure is willing (or able) to consider investing. If it's a significant change from the kind of deal IA wanted, maybe some kind of deal could actually get some traction. But if the Coyotes want to backload the deal with ways to recover their investment from the public coffers again, I can't see this legislature buying it.

 

[TheLegend]

Shannon I could see getting fed BS, but Friedge is a lot more reliable and I think his dope is genuine. Obviously, YMMV.

Yep... but Morgan is now tossing water on it.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Yep... but Morgan is now tossing water on it.

If precedent is to be believed, then that should make folks around here believe that the odds of it being true have gone through the roof...

 

[Killion]

If precedent is to be believed, then that should make folks around here believe that the odds of it being true have gone through the roof...

Well let me just dispel that notion.... if Bettman & Silver are masochists, get off on embarrassing themselves then sure its believable... but I donr believe either has a Hurry Up *****cat Faster Faster / Elsa, She Wolf of the SS type obsession, "need discipline Mommy" type fetish so to think they'd go hat in hand to the Legislature.... kinda beggars belief no?... never mind what those visuals do to ones imagination. ... possible I suppose... but nah. Not buyin. Fake News.

 

[TheLegend]

If precedent is to be believed, then that should make folks around here believe that the odds of it being true have gone through the roof...

Nope...... there's another precedent that will override that one (and it took oh... a minute or so to kick in)

 

[Glacial]

My question is:
Suppose that Barroway is actually set up for a flip. It would seem there are 3 possibilities....
1- A flip to other investors to keep the team local. Question: How would that actually work? In other words, what's the best scenario that would convince someone to jump in the short order that Barroway needs? It seems the only possible change in situation that is possible in the near future is a deal on an arena with the Tribes somehow, and one that would come with an operating subsidy at that. Is such a thing actually possible? Does anyone know? Does anyone have anything to add as another source of temptation for someone else to buy in and keep the team in AZ?

1. Where would these prospective local owners have been hiding all these years, resisting opportunities to buy low or buy in when the league was looking for local ownership, but opting to pay a premium to buy the team off Barroway?

2- A flip for relocation. This also has 2 very strong points against it. The big question would, of course, be...where to? And, the answers seems to be Seattle or Quebec. The negative points are: Seattle will hardly have a settled arena plan at that time, and if OVG comes out with a contract to overhaul Key, then a relocation there will require a temp facility, and there are not any nice ones available there. For Quebec, the obvious negative is alignment. And, my real question here is: If Barroway has an out of market flip in mind, does that mean that Bettman has OK'd his plan? If so, that's big news.

Quebec will require the league approval and the league choosing to burn their Plan B card for an imploding eastern team. Seattle seems bizarre given they lack a new arena approved or even formally proposed and the temporary facility would need renovations. Seattle doesn't align up with a quick flip and is by no means certain given the Seattle Process.

3- A flip back to the NHL to stay indefinitely in Arizona. I include this for the sake of cobra427, and others in Arizona. It sure seems to me that the NHL wants to give the appearance of being out of the ownership business, so I can hardly imagine this. But it is possible. What a strange agreement that would be: "Hey, you put some money in and look like you are running the team. We'll buy it back so you get your money out of it if we need to...."

If the NHL wanted the team back, they would've bought the team back. No need for convoluted hoop-jumping by having Barroway buy out IceArizona only to be bought out himself.

 

[MNNumbers]

In all honesty, considering we have not heard anything from NBA sources about this idea, I think a little skepticism had always been in order.

And, skepticism is always in order when Morgan is involved.

So, my guess is there is a small chance that Silver and Bettman are working together on this...