Phoenix CXXIV: Is there a statute of limitations on Perjury in Arizona?

[Dirty Old Man]

........ Been down to Seattle tons of times over the years, and noone has ever asked me about the NHL or Canucks. But talk NFL, MLB and NBA (well that hate Stern for letting the Sonics move when they had Durant)

Ok I'll bite. So if not Arizona or Seattle.....so you'll be on the record.... Where would *you* like them to move?

(sweet avatar, BTW.. Timely, too.)

 

[JimAnchower]

I don't think this will end anytime soon either.

Seattle isn't ready.

If the NHL wanted to move this franchise to QC that would have happened long ago.

There is nowhere else to go.

I think the "long game" for the NHL is to prolong these farcical ploys in Arizona to create the false impression that they are really trying to keep the franchise in place, while at the same time they do what they can to cultivate a favoured destination in the PNW.

In the meantime, their options are to move it to QC; mothball the franchise; or keep footing the losses.

My guess is they take Door #3.

Part of this is we don't know what happens if they exhaust all their public options. For years, it was Glendale footing part of the losses, but they eventually got out of that. But by the time that happened, it was too late for a potential move. Then they spent a year trying to find a partner. LeBlanc kept saying there was one and kept moving his deadline for announcing it. Lo and behold, he announced a preliminary one with ASU just as it was too late to move. The league even gave the team 72 hours to look into relocation. But that ASU deal fell through and now they waiting for this senate bill to pass. This has a hard deadline this year of early April. There don't seem to be any other public options, at least in the short term. Now, of course, we don't know about any private options, but then there have only been a few reports of them and none have come out in while.

So where does this leave us? Who knows, but I do love popcorn.

 

[Killion]

Part of this is we don't know what happens if they exhaust all their public options. For years, it was Glendale footing part of the losses, but they eventually got out of that. But by the time that happened, it was too late for a potential move. Then they spent a year trying to find a partner. LeBlanc kept saying there was one and kept moving his deadline for announcing it. Lo and behold, he announced a preliminary one with ASU just as it was too late to move. The league even gave the team 72 hours to look into relocation. But that ASU deal fell through and now they waiting for this senate bill to pass. This has a hard deadline this year of early April. There don't seem to be any other public options, at least in the short term. Now, of course, we don't know about any private options, but then there have only been a few reports of them and none have come out in while.

Yeah, this is certainly interesting, how it evolved that on the heels of first the COG cancelling the AMC & Lease in the spring of 2015 shocking both IA and the NHL right out of their socks, they drop the writ, get handed their lunch & too late to go nuclear & blow the State, have to save face. Then all this nonsense with "super progressed" - like Beavis & Butthead, Wayne & Garth power trippin to Rush's Super Conductor - and like that old Chanel commercial "Share the fantasy" just so totally out there as to be laughable....

So, Im just wondering here, did LeBlanc & Co also play the NHL, selling Bettman, buying time, and in doing so timing these explosions in such a way as to insure life, that they have no choice but to let the show go on for another 12mnth run because its too late to move them? Last year, they had the perfect storm of Expansion, the only 2 markets willing & able to buy the club & only one at that time with a building ready to go caught up in the NHL's web & process, not about to derail a possible $1B payday for the other 29 teams. While at the same time shaking confidence in franchise valuations & that price being charged for Expansion. Wouldve seriously gummed up the works....

And that bogus "72hr's to scout out another market & sell" with Quebec/Vegas not part of your prospecting list Boys... well, good luck with that. Thats twice now that the Leagues been boxed in, unable to sell for Relo because its too late, and its almost too late once again. Surely, there just has to be friction between IA & the NHL, between Bettman & LeBlanc, the former clearly beyond frustrated. And I have no sympathy. Highly amusing in fact. Karma.... These guys dont wanna let go and are making it very difficult for the league to make a clean break of it, Bettman being dragged in, embarrassing himself & the League in making irrational demands on the State, taxpayers. LeBlanc apparently muzzled, nary a peep while all Hell breaks loose, Bettman reinserting himself, voice of the League & Franchise, finally stepping out from behind the curtain & playing the Heavy.

Gary shouldve learned long ago that while its initially cheaper to hire amateurs, over the mid-to-long term, a lot less expensive & far more prudent to hire professionals. Far more reliable, objective, mercenary. Now he's got a real problem on his hands. Emotionally invested rent-to-own caretakers who have played him, the market, wont let go. And the worst kind of self-anointed Champions' any team in any market could have.

 

[SunDancer]

No.... the letter was for consumption of the legislators. All the media posturing aside.

If there's one thing consistent about politicians, they say one thing in front of the cameras, while in reality are thinking something else.

Note that the legislation proposed by the governor (which lets all three AZ universities keep 100% of their sales tax generation) which prompted ASU to pull away from the arena partnership is also receiving the same amount of skepticism from these same legislators.

But IMO.... what Bettman's letter really means is the league is not going wait around on this. They need an up or down decision and need it now, and aren't going to spend the next 2-3 years waiting for the AZLeg to make up it's mind.

Only Bettman knows if his letter had the desired results or not but before he spoke the bill was skipping along from committee to commitee and making better progress under the radar. While it's true that politicians can be unpredictable, the backlash to Bettman's comments hasn't done Worsley any favors.

But you're probably right about Bettman's impatience. He could very well have intentionally raised the temperature just to bring the issue to a head and force Leblanc into working on the next best option.

 

[MNNumbers]

Only Bettman knows if his letter had the desired results or not but before he spoke the bill was skipping along from committee to commitee and making better progress under the radar. While it's true that politicians can be unpredictable, the backlash to Bettman's comments hasn't done Worsley any favors.

But you're probably right about Bettman's impatience. He could very well have intentionally raised the temperature just to bring the issue to a head and force Leblanc into working on the next best option.

Your memory is different than mine, Sun. My memory is that, before Bettman spoke, the bill was scheduled for a vote on the floor, and it was then pulled from that, under speculation there was not enough support. And, there were public comments about that. All of which made it appear that the bill could not pass. And, only then did Bettman speak.

But I could be wrong.

 

[RogerRoger]

Your memory is different than mine, Sun. My memory is that, before Bettman spoke, the bill was scheduled for a vote on the floor, and it was then pulled from that, under speculation there was not enough support. And, there were public comments about that. All of which made it appear that the bill could not pass. And, only then did Bettman speak.

But I could be wrong.

That's the timeline I remember as well.

 

[SunDancer]

The most infuriating part of the whole mess. This should be a PR disaster for the NHL. A crap storm that rival the PED scandal, and might have included a trip to the US congress for Garry to answer a few uncomfortable questions. It only the broadcasters using kids glove on this story that preventing it to blow up.

It's definitely infuriating. However, it's almost as if the NHL has moved beyond PR disasters. Everyone has become so jaded by the way it operates, the NHL's business is just received with a kind of numb cynicism. The Coyotes have become a SNAFU in the truest sense and in a way, it's given the NHL more freedom to find a solution on their terms.

 

[Killion]

Your memory is different than mine, Sun. My memory is that, before Bettman spoke, the bill was scheduled for a vote on the floor, and it was then pulled from that, under speculation there was not enough support. And, there were public comments about that. All of which made it appear that the bill could not pass. And, only then did Bettman speak.

But I could be wrong.

Right, but it was pulled before Bettmans & Barroways letters hit, if not pulled at least in stall, a holding pattern, not enough support.... So sure, 2 prong approach. Either the letters would push it over the top or they'd hasten its demise and as I dont think Gary Bettmans a fool, he had to know that. Bring things to a head. Yes or no.... Whats odd however is that the very next day he says "they have a few years to work things out" and so on & so forth. I suppose cynically one could assume he said that in order to temper the howls of outrage over his & Barroways letters, assure the market for the remainder of the season & next that every effort is going to be made to get a new building done. Claiming they "have options". Chose his words carefully as per usual. Left the barn door open to bolt this spring without coming out & saying that. Alibi'd himself. Can claim "yes, I meant we had options provided this Bill was passed and as it didnt"...........

 

[SunDancer]

Your memory is different than mine, Sun. My memory is that, before Bettman spoke, the bill was scheduled for a vote on the floor, and it was then pulled from that, under speculation there was not enough support. And, there were public comments about that. All of which made it appear that the bill could not pass. And, only then did Bettman speak.

But I could be wrong.

You're right. There were stories that the bill didn't have the support it needed but things were still relatively quiet. The bill certainly wasn't getting the negative attention it got after Bettman's letter. He may have in fact tipped the scales against the bill.

 

[Killion]

You're right. There were stories that the bill didn't have the support it needed but things were still relatively quiet. The bill certainly wasn't getting the negative attention it got after Bettman's letter. He may have in fact tipped the scales against the bill.

Yes, the narrative from the press & from Lawmakers was either positive, in support of or almost ambivalent, as in "not sure" however those letters hit the whole process like nitro & the PR machine went into hyperdrive.
Glendale going public, the media deep in its slumber awoken by the explosion, anger & opposition, common sense finally raising its head. No more polite & quiet backroom lobbying against Worsleys Bill. Gloves dropped....

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Yes, the narrative from the press & from Lawmakers was either positive, in support of or almost ambivalent, as in "not sure" however those letters hit the whole process like nitro & the PR machine went into hyperdrive.
Glendale going public, the media deep in its slumber awoken by the explosion, anger & opposition, common sense finally raising its head. No more polite & quiet backroom lobbying against Worsleys Bill. Gloves dropped....

There was speculation here that the GB letter was designed to poke the bear, because the NHL doesn't want to take on even bigger losses this year, and want it to move this year.

Bit to tinfoily for my tastes.

 

[Killion]

There was speculation here that the GB letter was designed to poke the bear, because the NHL doesn't want to take on even bigger losses this year, and want it to move this year.

Bit to tinfoily for my tastes.

Yes, and I can appreciate why you'd think that. That a guy like Bettman, sitting in his Ivory Tower penning a letter of support for IA could well be completely oblivious to the realities of what a State or Municipality is having to deal with; that nothing is more important than their providing the means & ways for a new arena, too bad so sad about Glendale but they made their bed, let it burn, their the ones responsible for all of this to begin with; 13-14yrs out there and never able to make a go of it "despite previous ownerships & the Leagues best efforts".... Completely delusional. False narrative... Pompous. Arrogant. I mean, my God, how he said such without turning beet red & choking on his words... It is possible he was caught completely unawares that his letter & Barroways would be received in the manner in which they were and now he's really stuck. Almost too late to move, and where? QC? Only place that can handle it & theres apparently a problem with that location, all self generated & artificial, stupid. Whether its the Divisional dealeo, the Molsons in Montreal & or all of the Canadian teams against? Purely spurious, greed driven if thats the case. No idea

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Yes, and I can appreciate why you'd think that. That a guy like Bettman, sitting in his Ivory Tower penning a letter of support for IA could well be completely oblivious to the realities of what a State or Municipality is having to deal with; that nothing is more important than their providing the means & ways for a new arena, too bad so sad about Glendale but they made their bed, let it burn, their the ones responsible for all of this to begin with; 13-14yrs out there and never able to make a go of it "despite previous ownerships & the Leagues best efforts".... Completely delusional. False narrative... Pompous. Arrogant. I mean, my God, how he said such without turning beet red & choking on his words... It is possible he was caught completely unawares that his letter & Barroways would be received in the manner in which they were and now he's really stuck. Almost too late to move, and where? QC? Only place that can handle it & theres apparently a problem with that location, all self generated & artificial, stupid. Whether its the Divisional dealeo, the Molsons in Montreal & or all of the Canadian teams against? Purely spurious, greed driven if thats the case. No idea

If they do move them to Quebec, then the Quebec ownership may have them over a bit of a barrel.

Look at what happened in Winnipeg. They got a great deal by being the only option left.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Look at what happened in Winnipeg. They got a great deal by being the only option left.

Not to digress, but I don't think that's why the got the great deal - they got the great deal because not only did they toe the NHL line all along the way (in marked contrast to Balsillie), but TNSE also lined up their ducks in a row to the nth degree to the point where there could not have been a more turnkey solution possible.

IF Quebecor has done the same (and that's a pretty big IF), then a relocation will happen there sooner than later. But again, I think the NHL/Bettman are expecting Carolina to be the domino that falls in Quebec City's favor.

 

[Pelle Lindbergh]

I hope that they will keep the name coyotes if theyre leaving for portland or seattle

 

[The Feckless Puck]

I hope that they will keep the name coyotes if theyre leaving for portland or seattle

I honestly don't, and I doubt they will because the new market will want their own identity.

 

[RogerRoger]

I hope that they will keep the name coyotes if theyre leaving for portland or seattle

Seems weird, why?

 

[Montrealer]

I hope that they will keep the name coyotes if theyre leaving for portland or seattle

The only way I support this is if they move to Seattle and become the Space Coyotes. They already have a logo ready to go.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

^(that's been my public profile picture for years. i used to work for NASA.)

 

[JimAnchower]

If I'm looking at the correct calendar, it doesn't look like SB1149 is on the COW agenda as of yet for tomorrow, though there are fifteen bills on tomorrow's docket. And there isn't anything for Friday either.

http://www.azleg.gov/Alis-Today/?sdate=2017-03-16&view=2&dftvl=all

 

[Llama19]

 

[Llama19]

If I'm looking at the correct calendar, it doesn't look like SB1149 is on the COW agenda as of yet for tomorrow, though there are fifteen bills on tomorrow's docket. And there isn't anything for Friday either.

http://www.azleg.gov/Alis-Today/?sdate=2017-03-16&view=2&dftvl=all

The latest Senate (those referenced are for the House side) agenda (likely for either for Thursday or Friday) will not be posted for a few hours yet...patience...

 

[CorbeauNoir]

IF Quebecor has done the same (and that's a pretty big IF), then a relocation will happen there sooner than later. But again, I think the NHL/Bettman are expecting Carolina to be the domino that falls in Quebec City's favor.

What makes you believe it's a pretty big if? Did Quebecor cheat in the expansion bid process or something?

 

[The Feckless Puck]

What makes you believe it's a pretty big if? Did Quebecor cheat in the expansion bid process or something?

No, but I think the expansion process raised questions within the NHL about Quebecor's ability to pay. It felt like, when I heard and read statements on QC's bid, that maybe elements of how a smaller-market Canadian team would work well might have been glossed over or been more general than the NHL would have liked. There was a lot of rhetoric about QC being the perfect candidate with a built-in, ravenous fan base with a new arena, and by and large I think it's true... but I personally got a different vibe than I did from TNSE when they ended up taking on the Thrashers. TNSE's case was planned out in extreme detail over a period of years, whilst Quebecor's seems more like an Oklahoma land rush by comparison.

It's just my gut feeling so I am in all likelihood wrong - I just read between the lines a bit on some of the statements issued by Bettman and the BoG during the expansion process with regards to QC that led me to believe that one or two ducklings might not be lined up in the right row.

 

[GuelphStormer]

No, but I think the expansion process raised questions within the NHL about Quebecor's ability to pay. It felt like, when I heard and read statements on QC's bid, that maybe elements of how a smaller-market Canadian team would work well might have been glossed over or been more general than the NHL would have liked. There was a lot of rhetoric about QC being the perfect candidate with a built-in, ravenous fan base with a new arena, and by and large I think it's true... but I personally got a different vibe than I did from TNSE when they ended up taking on the Thrashers. TNSE's case was planned out in extreme detail over a period of years, whilst Quebecor's seems more like an Oklahoma land rush by comparison.

It's just my gut feeling so I am in all likelihood wrong - I just read between the lines a bit on some of the statements issued by Bettman and the BoG during the expansion process with regards to QC that led me to believe that one or two ducklings might not be lined up in the right row.

the dollar exchange was quite volatile during the 11 months between july 15 when bids were requested and june 16 when vegas was awarded a franchise. where it started and where it ended up were relatively equal around $1.28 but it skyrocketed in jan 2016 to close to $1.50. it's around $1.33 now.

given how much of it's revenues are based in canadian dollars (gate, local and national tv) and player salaries are in us dollars, for a time there it looked like as much as a 20% shortfall. i have no idea how profitable this franchise could potentially be but that would give me pause ... if i were either PKP or Bettman.

i think this is all about money ... and of course, saving a landing spot.