I actually wonder if this strategy was discussed there, and they all know the bill is DOA, and they are all coming to the conclusion that a relocation is necessary?
Phoenix CXXIII: Who Wants to Pay Our Bills?
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I actually wonder if this strategy was discussed there, and they all know the bill is DOA, and they are all coming to the conclusion that a relocation is necessary?
Killion
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- Feb 19, 2010
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... well TFP, this is a Schadenfreude Free Zone so rest easy. I can speak for all Moderators and most of the regulars here in assuring you & other Coyotes fans & Arizonians that we take no joy in having witnessed what this league has put you through since 1996... certainly wont stand for any attacks, drive-byes or cheap shots, that somehow the market failed the NHL when here once again, the League has failed a market.
Another loss for the NHL. The business schools will have case studies on this, the papers will say the NHL failed in the south.
You get the feeling the 4th lockout, will be the last one...
You get the feeling the 4th lockout, will be the last one...
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Well, good news! If the team does somehow, someway move to Québec, well you guys should fit right in, since everyone in North America already hates us Québécois to death (especially most Canadians, and Montrealers) So you wont be alone getting disrespected if you stick with us!
cbcwpg
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And they won't and haven't been the first. Other markets have so called failed because the NHL system is just broken. Teams have been and continue to be in trouble all over the map. And it's not the fault of the people that go to the games.
cbcwpg
Registered User
What I would love to see is the CoG come out and tell the team they will re-enact the old lease that gave the team $15 million / yr. Would be interesting to see then if the NHL and IA still think Glendale is the wrong place for this team.
Llama19
Registered User
Yes...now, Bettman is saying we will stay here...but only, only if we get a new arena that is in the right location...so...if you build it...we promise, from all of the studies we have done...we will be successful (but only if we get all the revenue, you give us tax breaks, and some whatever city will partner with us, will give us a new 'arena management' fee...)
Broken model, indeed...
This. Totally this. It's the fault of the short-sightedness among the owners. The most powerful among them always vote for what nets themselves the most $$ RIGHT NOW.
As has been said here many many times, the biggest problem this league has is the revenue disparity between the TOR/NYR/MTL crowd and the ARZ/CAR/FLO crowd. There are other markets also, but these serve to illustrate the point. Since there is such a disparity, and NHL has decided on a more-or-less hard cap system, which in turn requires a salary floor/cap arrangement, the have-nots simply can't keep up.
Solving this requires one of 2 things to happen:
1- National shared revenues (like a US-wide broadcast contract) increase so much that local differences are not as great (this is the NFL/NBA model).
2- The owners of the richer teams bite the bullet and pay huge amounts in revenue redistribution to keep the others afloat.
Neither of these is likely any time soon. Thus, you have the constant talk of failing franchises that we are getting.
NHL has made the matter worse by selfishly continuing to expand over the last years from 21 to 31 teams. All that has really done is allowed the existing owners to put the expansion fees in their pockets.
What should have been happening is that the existing owners should have shielded the new markets from failure by allowing better run-ups before teams started play. Or, no new teams at all.
Instead, expansion has been sold on the premise that a US-wide broadcast contract was just around the corner, and it has never come, so the problem has just become worse.
And the new markets get behind before they have a chance.
It's just a pity. I am sorry to all the AZ fans. None of your experience should have had to be this way. NONE OF IT.
I am sorry.
Killion
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- Feb 19, 2010
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Exactly, nor is it the fault of the hockey fans who dont go to the games, voting with their wallets, a silent majority in many markets because they wont waste their hard earned money on a broken ownership group & league.
More from Shannon
Shannon tweets the letter is a hardline on Glendale only
https://mobile.twitter.com/JSportsnet/status/839311374895497220
Shannon tweets the letter is a hardline on Glendale only
https://mobile.twitter.com/JSportsnet/status/839311374895497220
If the worst happens, everyone here should understand it could easily happen to any fan's team and have some appropriate respect. Minnesota lost two teams (three times, counting twice in the WHA). There are posters from Ottawa and Edmonton here who had very close calls - had that bad feeling that they might just lose their team. When Winnipeg moved, there was a big article in the Edmonton paper, posted here a few years ago, that reflected a kind of shudder throughout Oilers fandom that it could have been them. Nobody wants that, nor should take comfort in anyone else suffering that.
Fans from Winnipeg and QC should understand better than most what that loss means. Just because a sport isn't deeply imbedded in a market yet doesn't mean many individuals aren't the greatest of hockey fans. They are. I know because I've seen college, minor pro, and NHL games in Arizona and the fans at those events love the sport. They deserve better treatment by the league, of course, but also by all hockey fans everywhere.
cbcwpg
Registered User
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/gary-bettman-coyotes-must-new-arena-location-succeed/
Not sure if this was posted, but who's butt is Bettman pulling this out of?
"The economic impact will be more than $600 million -- meaning that a new arena in the East Valley or downtown Phoenix would nearly double the current impact that the team already brings to Arizona," Bettman said.
Not sure if this was posted, but who's butt is Bettman pulling this out of?
"The economic impact will be more than $600 million -- meaning that a new arena in the East Valley or downtown Phoenix would nearly double the current impact that the team already brings to Arizona," Bettman said.
Llama19
Registered User
If Bettman tried to tell the truth, if that study of $600 million in economic stimulation was backed by the most esteemed group of Nobel-prize winning economists, if everything he said from now on was the absolute Gospel truth . . . no one would believe him any more. He's burned every bridge behind him that you can burn.
Llama19
Registered User
Now...now...it is just Bettman presenting 'alternate facts'...
Next Thread: Hockey in the Desert: A Tale of What Might Have Been, Destroyed by Alternative Facts.
Didn't just recently at the Transportation Committee meeting a rep from the Coyotes say they didn't know what the economic impact the Coyotes currently have in Glendale? Yet somehow a new arena location would bring double the economic impact and L'ill Gary knows this how?
Currently the Coyotes draw about 14 000 in Glendale. The new arena will seat about 16 000. How the heck is the economic impact going to double?
Oh...so no problem then.It sounds like the NHL source is saying that the relocation threat was only towards Glendale. The Legislators can vote NO on the bill. The NHL will leave Glendale no matter what but they will build their own arena in Arizona with their own money if that source is correct.
I will say that I disagree with that source though..to me I think it was a threat to build/subsidize or ELSE
They are trying to pressure the Legislators but at the same time not kill whatever fan support is left for the rest of this season so the source says that the NHL means it...but not really
Oh...so no problem then.It sounds like the NHL source is saying that the relocation threat was only towards Glendale. The Legislators can vote NO on the bill. The NHL will leave Glendale no matter what but they will build their own arena in Arizona with their own money if that source is correct.
I will say that I disagree with that source though..to me I think it was a threat to build/subsidize or ELSE
They are trying to pressure the Legislators but at the same time not kill whatever fan support is left for the rest of this season so the source says that the NHL means it...but not really
Sounds like the best plan if the league and team are so committed to the market. Wherever this pile of dirt for the new arena is located it sounds like it will be massively successful. League should just do a partnership with IA and build the arena together.
I think that Bettman being involved at this time is highly significant. I also think that Barroway mentioning the possibility of a time coming when there is no way forward in Arizona is very significant.
I think it's now 50/50 for a relo this summer.
What do others think?
I think it's now 50/50 for a relo this summer.
What do others think?
Llama19
Registered User
The following are the financial links to the screen-captured slides that were presented by Mitchell Ziets, representing the Coyotes, of Tipping Point Sports...
Financials
02-14-17-STTC-01-FinancingLandscape
02-14-17-STTC-02-ChartingANewCourse
02-14-17-STTC-03-GuidingPrinciples
02-14-17-STTC-04-FundingSources
02-14-17-STTC-05-StateRevenueSharing
02-14-17-STTC-06-StateRevenueResults
02-14-17-STTC-07-TeamInvestment
02-14-17-STTC-08-EconomicImpact
The Economic Impact is where Bettman got his $600 million figure from...
Does Economic Impact imply that the RoadRunners existence also depends on a new arena?
Like I said earlier post it is sounding like the state of Arizona saying no to any funding for a new arena & don't buy what Gary Bettman is selling so in my opinion it is time for the league to throw in towel & start looking for a new home for the coyotes so let see what cities are out there .
Quebec City - Should be the first option but I think the league has them lined up for an expansion team within the next few years most likely the year after next .
Seattle - Could be another option but have yet secure funding & a site to build a new arena also an NHL. team would just be by product of any future NBA. team because that is what Seattle really wants is the sonics back & an NHL. team would be just a bonus.
Kansas City - Has the arena but has low interest in the NHL. right now & I think in Kansas City there is more interest in the NBA. than the NHL.
Southern Ontario (Hamilton) - The interest in Hamilton (Southern Ontario) is sky high & would be the most profitable cities on this list but Hamilton has to get over those obstacles that are Gary Bettmen , Buffalo Sabers & Jeremy Jacobs .
Hartford - High interest but it is a small market there arena is too small & too old .
Houston - Lost interest in the NHL. years ago .
Quebec City - Should be the first option but I think the league has them lined up for an expansion team within the next few years most likely the year after next .
Seattle - Could be another option but have yet secure funding & a site to build a new arena also an NHL. team would just be by product of any future NBA. team because that is what Seattle really wants is the sonics back & an NHL. team would be just a bonus.
Kansas City - Has the arena but has low interest in the NHL. right now & I think in Kansas City there is more interest in the NBA. than the NHL.
Southern Ontario (Hamilton) - The interest in Hamilton (Southern Ontario) is sky high & would be the most profitable cities on this list but Hamilton has to get over those obstacles that are Gary Bettmen , Buffalo Sabers & Jeremy Jacobs .
Hartford - High interest but it is a small market there arena is too small & too old .
Houston - Lost interest in the NHL. years ago .
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