Phoenix CXXIII: Who Wants to Pay Our Bills?

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WildGopher

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Jun 13, 2012
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"...hell, we even tried completely failing to live up to our lease agreement there for a few years, and even THAT didn't work!"

Best line of the day!

Bettman might have messed up in his zeal to show how wonderful this new arena project will be for Arizona. At the end of the second paragraph on page 2, he writes: "And the new taxes retained by the State will exceed current tax dollars." Then near the end of the letter he writes the project "will generate new tax revenue."

That runs smack dab into an Arizona law that sets a higher bar for passing a new law if it means the state will collect more money - a safeguard to make it harder for the legislature to raise taxes or fees. If the bill does the things Bettman is saying, it probably requires a 2/3rds vote - 20 Senators, not a majority of 16. It would be fitting justice if this bozo just raised the bar to impossible levels with his braggadocio. LeBlanc and Worsley have been very careful not to suggest the bill would generate net tax revenue for Arizona. A) because it won't; but B) presumably because if it was determined to do that, it would require 20 votes.

The legislative analyst has already issued an opinion that the bill won't increase net revenues to the state (in fact, he/she wrote it likely will decrease them). But if this bill gets to the floor, Bettman's words could be used by some to challenge that opinion and to try to get someone to rule that it requires 20 votes. Alternatively, an opponent of the bill could offer an amendment to create state revenue from the bill (state revenue from the 2% tax currently would go to pay the state's bonds, with the rest going back to IA), which, if it passed, would trigger the 20-vote rule.
 

mesamonster

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Oct 13, 2011
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Scottsdale, AZ.
The creep came out of the closet in a final act desperation. If you didn't hate him before, now is your last chance to laugh openly at the little corrupt Commish. Talk about bending the facts to get his lies heard. Say Gary, just so you know, the state of Arizona and it elected officials have seen your pathetic act before, this time they will not be buying it!

Should the bill fail to progress through the legislature this will be their last season in Az. After that show of weakness by their petulant leader they will be booed out of town if they elect to play a lame duck season.
 

Fairview

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Jan 30, 2016
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It is accepted by most people that the arena location is not the magic potion for this money pit. We know that the big subsidy is the only way to get the franchise to tread water. So, Bettman is essentially saying that the NHL will not work in Arizona. They have not produced any credible proof that they will do substantially better in another location. And certainly without another "arena management " subsidy they are doomed.
 

WildGopher

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Jun 13, 2012
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The creep came out of the closet in a final act desperation. If you didn't hate him before, now is your last chance to laugh openly at the little corrupt Commish. Talk about bending the facts to get his lies heard. Say Gary, just so you know, the state of Arizona and it elected officials have seen your pathetic act before, this time they will not be buying it!

Should the bill fail to progress through the legislature this will be their last season in Az. After that show of weakness by their petulant leader they will be booed out of town if they elect to play a lame duck season.

With that letter, the legislators just got to see firsthand Bettman and the NHL stab their benefactors (Glendale) in the back. I don't think they'll be in any rush to get in line to be their next benefactors.
 

XX

Waiting for Ishbia
Dec 10, 2002
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If the Coyotes get moved can we handle the transition on HF a little better than what happened with Atlanta?
 

bustamente

Kinda Optimistic
Jun 29, 2015
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I don't know if this has been answered before but who will finance an arena for the Coyotes as a primary tenant in downtown Phoenix, and is this the last arena they are going to build in Arizona for them.
 

Killion

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Feb 19, 2010
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It is accepted by most people that the arena location is not the magic potion for this money pit. We know that the big subsidy is the only way to get the franchise to tread water. So, Bettman is essentially saying that the NHL will not work in Arizona. They have not produced any credible proof that they will do substantially better in another location. And certainly without another "arena management " subsidy they are doomed.

Its my opinion that even with it (another subsidy) so long as IA is around & calling the shots the club is absolutely doomed. Incapable, incompetent, simply dont have the money and have never had any credibility with most, what little support theyd managed to engender with their enthusiasm evaporated over the 1st 24mnths of their guardianship. You could see this coming back in 2013 when the COG voted up that abomination of an agreement. Didnt take a rocket scientist to figure out what was really going on.
 

WildGopher

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Jun 13, 2012
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I don't know if this has been answered before but who will finance an arena for the Coyotes as a primary tenant in downtown Phoenix, and is this the last arena they are going to build in Arizona for them.

I haven't heard that anyone would finance an arena downtown where the Coyotes would be the primary tenant. The city of Phoenix might be open to (partially) financing an arena where the Suns, Yotes, and Mercury jointly share an arena, but that's lost revenue for the Suns/Mercury, so few think it would happen.
 

Fairview

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Jan 30, 2016
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So, in his letter Buttman mentions that the team has concluded that they can't make it work in Glendale BUT they have concluded that it is a sure fire success anywhere else in Arizona. My question to Buttman is...After misjudging the Glendale market so badly...How can anyone trust the projections this same organization is making about a new location?
 

Killion

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Feb 19, 2010
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If the Coyotes get moved can we handle the transition on HF a little better than what happened with Atlanta?

.... :laugh: yeah, count on it.... and who's askin?... that you XX?.... nice avy.... barely recognized you in those new threads.... the French, they do know how to dress...
 

madhi19

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Jun 2, 2012
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With that letter, the legislators just got to see firsthand Bettman and the NHL stab their benefactors (Glendale) in the back. I don't think they'll be in any rush to get in line to be their next benefactors.
The letter came as close to using the word "relocation" as you can, without actually using it. But the cat out of the bag, this really could be it folks!
 

Street Hawk

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Feb 18, 2003
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I haven't heard that anyone would finance an arena downtown where the Coyotes would be the primary tenant. The city of Phoenix might be open to (partially) financing an arena where the Suns, Yotes, and Mercury jointly share an arena, but that's lost revenue for the Suns/Mercury, so few think it would happen.

Suns have a clause in their lease that in five years if the arena is deemed outdated, then they can get out of the teaming decade or so of their lease.

What the city of Phoenix has proposed is to build an arena that is to be shared between hockey and basketball. However the suns owner is balking at that plan because he currently controls the revenues if his arena now and doesn't want to share with the coyotes. He also knowS that the coyotes are out of Glendale now and that they really have e no where to go. So he can stall now and hope that the coyotes move, then he can handle e the suns control the revenues of a new arena.

Honestly, this is why the NHL needs to be involved in arena deals. Because if the current owners sells the new owner needs to take over the lease and if the arena is in a crappy location, the team will fail.
 

Killion

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Feb 19, 2010
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The letter came as close to using the word "relocation" as you can, without actually using it. But the cat out of the bag, this really could be it folks!

... yes, the whole tone of it, struck me that way as well. Bettman essentially clearing the runway.
 

Fairview

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Jan 30, 2016
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If the arena is in such a lousy location then why did IA buy the team? If, of course, you were to believe that they actually bought it. I don't know about you, but who in their right mind buys a business in a location that according to GB has been a failure for 15 years? No wonder we call them Clowns
 

XX

Waiting for Ishbia
Dec 10, 2002
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If the arena is in such a lousy location then why did IA buy the team? If, of course, you were to believe that they actually bought it. I don't know about you, but who in their right mind buys a business in a location that according to GB has been a failure for 15 years? No wonder we call them Clowns

I'd buy something if my risk was subsidize and the upside was considerable. They lost the subsidy. Time to sell.
 

Mightygoose

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Nov 5, 2012
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Ajax, ON
So it looks like the time to 'discuss things' is upon us.

With Bettman now getting involved it shows that the latest round of lobbying is ineffective.

Also, to me this says

A new arena downtown is not workable if this bill fails

Partnering with a tribe is not workable if this bill fails

A blantant relocation threat without saying it. The question is how much will the opponents stick to their guns?

Caving at this stage will make them even more weak IMO especially with the talk of not enough money for education and never mind the principle in using tax money for an unnecessary arena (unless you're the Coyotes) in this day and age.
 

Fairview

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Jan 30, 2016
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I'd buy something if my risk was subsidize and the upside was considerable. They lost the subsidy. Time to sell.

Yes the subsidy was/is everything. No matter where they go in any new location that they can name they are going to need it!
 

Killion

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Feb 19, 2010
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If the arena is in such a lousy location then why did IA buy the team? If, of course, you were to believe that they actually bought it. I don't know about you, but who in their right mind buys a business in a location that according to GB has been a failure for 15 years? No wonder we call them Clowns

... yeah, and where was the NHL in 2002/2003 when Ellman was pitching Glendale?.... funny, how they made no mention of location being a hangup during the Moyes BK when the COG backed their bid to buy the team.... no mention of location being a problem when they were trying to sell it for $170M... no mention it was a "bad location" when they hit up the city twice for $25M "insurance premiums" against sale closings that never, you know, closed?.... dont remember hearing Tony complaining about location until after the City voided the lease & AMC.... now, would they have been better off in Scottsdale starting in 04? Sure. But.... BUT.... the same **** that went down in Glendale wouldve gone down in Scottsdale as you had the same people involved. The only difference being that Scottsdale likely wouldnt have been suckered into dropping hundreds of millions in subsidies & the team leaving a lot earlier.
 

Jonas1235

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Jan 8, 2008
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Calgary
Barroway and company sell to Quebecor for $350 million US and then apply to move to Quebec City? Simple as that.
 

Slashers98

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Oct 3, 2008
2,387
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Quebec City
Barroway and company sell to Quebecor for $350 million US and then apply to move to Quebec City? Simple as that.

We're ready in any case, but that really sucks for Coyotes fans that Bettman came out today like this with such a bold statement regarding the whole mess in Glendale. :shakehead
 

Glacial

Registered User
Jan 8, 2013
1,704
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... yes, the whole tone of it, struck me that way as well. Bettman essentially clearing the runway.

Given this franchise's history in Arizona, does it not seem likely for the relocation plane to be all packed and ready to take off but it strikes an errant abandoned subsidy and crashes and burns, leaving the team in AZ for the time being? :laugh:
 

madhi19

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Jun 2, 2012
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Barroway and company sell to Quebecor for $350 million US and then apply to move to Quebec City? Simple as that.
Plus $150 million transfer fee to be on par with Vegas expansion cost. At least on paper, in reality Quebecor will not pay the transfer fee immediately. The team play in the central until Seattle can get their act together, and the other dumpster fire is moved West.

This is my theory, and if am right the leaks and innuendo will start very soon to prepare the ground.
 

Fairview

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Jan 30, 2016
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... yeah, and where was the NHL in 2002/2003 when Ellman was pitching Glendale?.... funny, how they made no mention of location being a hangup during the Moyes BK when the COG backed their bid to buy the team.... no mention of location being a problem when they were trying to sell it for $170M... no mention it was a "bad location" when they hit up the city twice for $25M "insurance premiums" against sale closings that never, you know, closed?.... dont remember hearing Tony complaining about location until after the City voided the lease & AMC.... now, would they have been better off in Scottsdale starting in 04? Sure. But.... BUT.... the same **** that went down in Glendale wouldve gone down in Scottsdale as you had the same people involved. The only difference being that Scottsdale likely wouldnt have been suckered into dropping hundreds of millions in subsidies & the team leaving a lot earlier.

Yep, and all of LeBlank's blustering about breaking even by year 3 and profit after that. LIAR...LIAR...Clown Pants on Fire.. He said that he had studied the market and everything was rosey(with Glendale buying the team for him with the cool $15 million going to Fortress)..where did he say he had that business plan written on again? ..on a Starbucks napkin??
 
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