Phoenix CXVI: Soft Deadlines (or ~ As Soon As Practicable)
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Llama19
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TheLegend
Megathread Gadfly
Oy.... how things get twisted around here.... 
If people would take a look at the current roster first before letting their tin hats take over, they would discover the Coyotes suddenly have a log jam at the center position with at least two of the three top center prospects looking to make the roster this year.
Vermette did not have a very productive year last year until the trade deadline when Alex Tanguay was brought in and since he wasn't resigned, it put Vermette's future in doubt. The Coyotes were looking to trade Vermette up until today. Probably hoping to fill a top six right wing position that they sorely need right now.
Of course, you're all welcome to drop by Forum 40 to discuss this HOCKEY move.
If people would take a look at the current roster first before letting their tin hats take over, they would discover the Coyotes suddenly have a log jam at the center position with at least two of the three top center prospects looking to make the roster this year.
Vermette did not have a very productive year last year until the trade deadline when Alex Tanguay was brought in and since he wasn't resigned, it put Vermette's future in doubt. The Coyotes were looking to trade Vermette up until today. Probably hoping to fill a top six right wing position that they sorely need right now.
Of course, you're all welcome to drop by Forum 40 to discuss this HOCKEY move.
Can we discuss how it's just another example of the Coyotes going for "cap savings" instead of building a team, instead?
Oy.... how things get twisted around here....
If people would take a look at the current roster first before letting their tin hats take over, they would discover the Coyotes suddenly have a log jam at the center position with at least two of the three top center prospects looking to make the roster this year.
Vermette did not have a very productive year last year until the trade deadline when Alex Tanguay was brought in and since he wasn't resigned, it put Vermette's future in doubt. The Coyotes were looking to trade Vermette up until today. Probably hoping to fill a top six right wing position that they sorely need right now.
Of course, you're all welcome to drop by Forum 40 to discuss this HOCKEY move.
Would it not be better to have some competition for the center position, rather than just handing things over to unproven players? Last time I checked on the Coyote forum there was concern about whether top center prospect Strome had strong enough skating to step into the NHL. Does the Vermette buyout window close before training camp?
Now that you mentioned it. How much has the team committed to salary this year vs what they spent last year?
Llama19
Registered User
Savings is just 'on paper,' as it appears that IceArizona's actions are showing very little real money to spend...
Boris Zubov
No relation to Sergei, Joe
So why wouldn't they try to trade him for a draft pick if this isn't a salary dump? Or at least let him compete in camp & showcase him in a few pre-season games before buying him out now. What was the rush?
Sorry, but this reeks of a cash flow problem.
Sorry, but this reeks of a cash flow problem.
TheLegend
Megathread Gadfly
Another example??
Ooooookay........ I suppose every team should spend to the cap every year just for the hell of it, rather than maximize their return on investment.
Another example??
Ooooookay........ I suppose every team should spend to the cap every year just for the hell of it, rather than maximize their return on investment.
Arizona could copy Holland and max out on the cap with barely any elite players.
Truth of the matter is that the right answer may be in between these two extremes.
TheLegend
Megathread Gadfly
Because they quite possibly have someone in mind they're making a play for (Kevin Shattenkirk is getting kicked around a lot) and I'm sure there are more than one team interested in bidding for his services.
So do you keep a $3M+ player on the roster to sit in the press box a bunch of games just to show a bunch of posters "neener neener neener!!"??? Or do you take that savings and spend it somewhere else?
They DID try to trade him.... they couldn't get a return worth while for it. As stated above Vermette had a very so-so year. Other than his run in Chicago during their Stanley Cup playoff run he wasn't effective that year either.
I agree with you.
There's just more being played into this than what is actually there, IMO.
Still no need to put the cart before the horse. Giving prospects starting roles before they have proven to be worthy. Clearing Cap space for a player you have not picked up yet. Strange way of doing business, mind you it is Arizona I guess. I will be proven wrong when they acquire Shattenkirk, if there isn't a BIG acquisition then will you consider this to be just a salary dump?
I see Pavel Datsyuk on their still, unless something has changed.
More like the smoke signaling the fire.
Pronger and Pavel.
Paying players not to play for you is maximizing your return on investment? Now that's a new one!Ooooookay........ I suppose every team should spend to the cap every year just for the hell of it, rather than maximize their return on investment.
Well, we know that this team was bought mostly with credit. Secondly, the NHL had said that they needed that $15 million subsidy to stay in the Phoenix market. That is gone. Money is an issue with this team, always has been.
Sure this buyout could be only a hockey move. But based on what the NHL claimed about that subsidy and the fact that not only is that gone, but also the arena management deal as well.
It is possible and more likely than some would like to believe, that this was in fact a salary dump. It would make more sense than making salary space for a player you do not have and giving prospects positions rather than having them earn them.
Sure this buyout could be only a hockey move. But based on what the NHL claimed about that subsidy and the fact that not only is that gone, but also the arena management deal as well.
It is possible and more likely than some would like to believe, that this was in fact a salary dump. It would make more sense than making salary space for a player you do not have and giving prospects positions rather than having them earn them.
TheLegend
Megathread Gadfly
We
In both cases they took on those contracts to get a player they wanted.
The Coyotes are not a max cap team. But if they can use that extra space to obtain a player that does help them that isn't a sign of anything other than they're using the system in a way that any other team can. They didn't need either of those contracts to reach the floor this year or last, so it means absolutely nothing unless you're simply looking for an excuse to gripe about it.
BTW.... Both of those contracts will be off the books next year. It cost them exactly ZERO dollars in real money to take them on to begin with. So how does that explain your claim they're paying players not to play???
In both cases they took on those contracts to get a player they wanted.
The Coyotes are not a max cap team. But if they can use that extra space to obtain a player that does help them that isn't a sign of anything other than they're using the system in a way that any other team can. They didn't need either of those contracts to reach the floor this year or last, so it means absolutely nothing unless you're simply looking for an excuse to gripe about it.
BTW.... Both of those contracts will be off the books next year. It cost them exactly ZERO dollars in real money to take them on to begin with. So how does that explain your claim they're paying players not to play???
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You just proved my point in your first sentence: They want players who carry a larger cap hit than dollars they pay out. That's not building a team, it's being cheap.
They aren't at the Cap, so there's not anything "extra" about it. They aren't going to use that "extra" space and they don't need to because they're cheap.
And your last paragraph proved my point: it costs them nothing and gets them credit for spending more cap. So how is that maximizing the return on investment again? They didn't invest a thing.
They aren't at the Cap, so there's not anything "extra" about it. They aren't going to use that "extra" space and they don't need to because they're cheap.
And your last paragraph proved my point: it costs them nothing and gets them credit for spending more cap. So how is that maximizing the return on investment again? They didn't invest a thing.
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It gives them the appearance of not being cheap, when in reality they are being exactly that. Even on forum 40 there are some Coyote fans that admitted that.
TheLegend
Megathread Gadfly
There is a difference in real money and cap money no????
Think about that for a while.
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TheLegend
Megathread Gadfly
There are also fans on Forum 40 who don't agree with it. That's like trying to say if there's one guy in the group who agrees with you then its proof everyone else does to.
There is a difference in real money and cap money no????
Think about that for a while.
You shouldn't need more than a second to see they're going for contracts that have higher cap hits and lower salaries.
Well, you might so you can spin it some way but I don't. They're being cheap, pure and simple.
There are also fans on Forum 40 who don't agree with it. That's like trying to say if there's one guy in the group who agrees with you then its proof everyone else does to.
You can disagree with it all you like, but it's clearly happening. How is a player who is never going to play for them a player they want?
There are also fans on Forum 40 who don't agree with it. That's like trying to say if there's one guy in the group who agrees with you then its proof everyone else does to.
As I stated above there are 2 lines of thought. There is good reason to believe either one, and we each have our own reasons to believe what we choose to believe.
TheLegend
Megathread Gadfly
True.... but that wasn't the reason behind bringing this up in the megathread in the first place. I found Feckless' flyover post to be more informative to discussing the franchise's business end than this.
The fact that Anthony LeBlanc has self-gagged himself (and that is a good thing) these past several weeks over the arena has made some itchy to the point where they'll try anything to keep this thread on the front page.
There is nothing clear here....... except a lot of mud being slung around.
But.... give me an honest answer to this question.
You really think Jakob Chychrun would have fell four more spots in this year's draft thus allowing the Coyotes to avoid taking on Datzyuk's contract??
The Coyotes were ready to draft him at #7 until Clayton Keller fell to them. At that point the Coyotes set off to move up from the #20 spot they got from the Rangers to get Chychrun... no takers. Until Detroit's turn.
Ken Holland was going to draft Chychrun at #16. Even said so. The clock had literally reached zero when the Coyotes came to him. Holland's price was #20 and Datzyuk's contract. Holland needed to unload the contract because otherwise he was going to have to lose a couple of his own players to cap issues. Coyotes had the room to absorb it for the one year it had on it. It was a trade that benefited both clubs.
BTW.... Chychrun signed a 3-year ELC yesterday.
kdb209
Registered User
- Jan 26, 2005
- 14,870
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Of course, on the main board they are discussing how this is prelude to the 'Yotes Offer-sheeting Nikita Kucherov
Llama19
Registered User
According to General Fanager, the Coyotes are next-to-last in salary spending...
Calgary Flames - $59,920,500
New Jersey Devils - $59,440,000
Arizona Coyotes - $58,803,078
Carolina Hurricanes - $54,650,833
Source: http://www.generalfanager.com/teams
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