Phoenix CXVI: Soft Deadlines (or ~ As Soon As Practicable)

[Fairview]

What if I told you the $6M AEG is being paid by the COG was being funneled directly to IceArizona?... That they lied about the "saddest thing in the world is an arena with its lights out"?.

Well if you take that 6 million and add all the wonderful parking revenue to IA, maybe a share of naming rights and add $2 increase across the board on tickets then IA will be close to their $15 million dollar deal(IA projections of course) again Very nice of AEG to set that up for their fellow NHL owners.

 

[Bruins1233]

Just posting this a glimmer of hope that the general population deep down tends to understand these sport dealings and votes accordingly.

http://deadspin.com/politician-who-cooked-up-horrid-braves-stadium-deal-get-1784363693

That makes me happy. It amazes me that
1) people would want to pay for a pro sports stadium
2) they would replace a 20 year old stadium
The opposition to public funding also sunk the Boston Olympic bid last year.
Teams won't leave lucrative markets because they don't get public funding. When the Red Sox wanted to move to a new stadium part of the reason they didn't is that there was no public assistance so it was cheaper to renovate. And the Patriots play in Foxborough because Boston wasn't ready to pay for their new Stadium in Southie.
However the Rangers are getting a half billion to replace a ballpark opened in 1996
and also Las Vegas is 55/35 against public funding for a Raiders Stadium.
The tide may be turning.

 

[Mightygoose]

What if I told you the $6M AEG is being paid by the COG was being funneled directly to IceArizona?... That they lied about the "saddest thing in the world is an arena with its lights out"?.

Well if you take that 6 million and add all the wonderful parking revenue to IA, maybe a share of naming rights and add $2 increase across the board on tickets then IA will be close to their $15 million dollar deal(IA projections of course) again Very nice of AEG to set that up for their fellow NHL owners.

That would be quite the set up for sure. Then again, if this was true ane such a good arrangement, why look at a new arena?

Well, I went out of town for a vacation and it looks like nothing substantive has been posted...

My flight back home took me over all three of the rumored sites - Salt River Fields at Talking Stick, the Karsten area, and the Scottsdale Six location. We banked right over Talking Stick and from the air it is so obvious that that would be the ideal location in terms of infrastructure and development. The other two sites look claustrophobic by comparison.

The interesting thing is that I've heard through the grapevine that there is some intra-tribal intrigue going on with regards to the Coyotes. I guess that there may be some blood in the water and some sharks are getting a sniff. I'm hoping to find out more if I can now that I'm back.

I'm off to eat my box of Smarties I picked up in Victoria, BC, so I'll check in later.

You know, looking at the sites from a plane still counts as plane tracking, right?

 

[aqib]

That makes me happy. It amazes me that
1) people would want to pay for a pro sports stadium
2) they would replace a 20 year old stadium
The opposition to public funding also sunk the Boston Olympic bid last year.
Teams won't leave lucrative markets because they don't get public funding. When the Red Sox wanted to move to a new stadium part of the reason they didn't is that there was no public assistance so it was cheaper to renovate. And the Patriots play in Foxborough because Boston wasn't ready to pay for their new Stadium in Southie.
However the Rangers are getting a half billion to replace a ballpark opened in 1996
and also Las Vegas is 55/35 against public funding for a Raiders Stadium.
The tide may be turning.

The Pats were willing to pay for a Boston stadium themselves. The neighborhood didn't want it.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

You know, looking at the sites from a plane still counts as plane tracking, right?

Looking at the sites from a 737 has nothing to do with anything other than my own curiosity.

I'll also say that as much as I like the Talking Stick site from what I saw from the air, I have heard that their bid is over because they couldn't get money from the tribal authority. So if the tribes are still in, it's the Scottsdale Six site and this dark horse group that appears to be coming out of nowhere that I still need to get details on.

 

[not a troll]

I just don't understand how silent the other parties are. This is a big project not a strip mall. Is this how things are normally done in Arizona?

 

[aqib]

Looking at the sites from a 737 has nothing to do with anything other than my own curiosity.

I'll also say that as much as I like the Talking Stick site from what I saw from the air, I have heard that their bid is over because they couldn't get money from the tribal authority. So if the tribes are still in, it's the Scottsdale Six site and this dark horse group that appears to be coming out of nowhere that I still need to get details on.

How about the Suns move to Gila River while Talking Stick is torn down and new arena is built on that spot. That gives Glendale 2 tenants for 3 years.

 

[Fairview]

I just don't understand how silent the other parties are. This is a big project not a strip mall. Is this how things are normally done in Arizona?

Really hard to believe.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

How about the Suns move to Gila River while Talking Stick is torn down and new arena is built on that spot. That gives Glendale 2 tenants for 3 years.

Should probably clarify - I was referring to Salt River Fields at Talking Stick, which is a different location and entity from Talking Stick Resort Arena, formerly US Airways/America West Arena in downtown Phoenix. The former is a burgeoning sports and commercial area just east of the heart of Scottsdale, and the latter is a run-down POS arena landlocked in central Phoenix.

As for the silence about the tribe, the reason why there isn't a lot of hard intel is because none of it has to do with the central tribal government; it's all a bunch of smaller families and groups which own parcels of the reservation land. I'm not very familiar with it but I believe it's a lot different from a situation like ASU where extensive reporting and accounting in a deal of this type is required.

The only real reason I brought up the tribe topic again is because, based on what I've heard, the various tribal groups seem to feel they have the best shot at landing the arena. I don't know if that's true; certainly everything concrete I've seen points to IA wanting to do something with ASU and a special tax district. But given the lack of news lately I thought it'd be entertaining to speculate - certainly more interesting than tangents about Hamilton.

 

[aqib]

Should probably clarify - I was referring to Salt River Fields at Talking Stick, which is a different location and entity from Talking Stick Resort Arena, formerly US Airways/America West Arena in downtown Phoenix. The former is a burgeoning sports and commercial area just east of the heart of Scottsdale, and the latter is a run-down POS arena landlocked in central Phoenix.

I get that the arena is nearing the end of its useful life given that its 24 years old. I am just curious why Gila River can't be a temporary home and a new arena be built in the same spot? You save all kinds of time and money because you won't have to pay for land acquisition, environmental studies, traffic studies etc. Then you put both the Suns and Coyotes downtown and put all the concerts and other events in Gila Giver. Or does this make too much sense?

 

[Fairview]

I get that the arena is nearing the end of its useful life given that its 24 years old. I am just curious why Gila River can't be a temporary home and a new arena be built in the same spot? You save all kinds of time and money because you won't have to pay for land acquisition, environmental studies, traffic studies etc. Then you put both the Suns and Coyotes downtown and put all the concerts and other events in Gila Giver. Or does this make too much sense?

Both teams need to have 100% access to all of the revenue that the building can provide to be successful. This is the reason IMO that neither the Suns nor the Coyotes have jumped on the Phoenix mayor's plan to build a multi-use facility for them.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

I get that the arena is nearing the end of its useful life given that its 24 years old. I am just curious why Gila River can't be a temporary home and a new arena be built in the same spot? You save all kinds of time and money because you won't have to pay for land acquisition, environmental studies, traffic studies etc. Then you put both the Suns and Coyotes downtown and put all the concerts and other events in Gila Giver. Or does this make too much sense?

This presupposes that the Suns and Coyotes have the same interests in common, and they most decidedly do not. Phoenix is such a crowded entertainment market that only the strongest teams are profitable, because outside of the hardcore fans there is so much other stuff to do for the general Arizona public to bother investing in mediocrity.

The Suns' current regime has no interest in doing anything but satisfying its own business goals. The Suns could care less about the Coyotes unless they can shoehorn them into a draconian lease where they can siphon off whatever profits the hockey team could generate for their own pocketbooks. The original shared building situation was bad enough - but Sarver and company have their own issues to deal with on the basketball side to bother with helping the NHL team solve their housing situation.

I think it stands to reason as well that the Coyotes are never going to prosper as the undercard to the NBA team downtown. The only way they might possibly make it work in Arizona is to build a hockey culture, tie it in with ASU's D1 team, and create a Coyotes-centric commercial district somewhere without being under the thumb of another pro team. They need all the revenue they can corral, and they need to maintain an identity where they are considered a prime sporting property. Even in Glendale, they're not the top dog - Westgate essentially belongs to the Cardinals.

Whatever solution they arrive at will not be one that appeals to common sense. This is Arizona, after all, and common sense is in short supply in this state by default.

 

[Whileee]

Both teams need to have 100% access to all of the revenue that the building can provide to be successful. This is the reason IMO that neither the Suns nor the Coyotes have jumped on the Phoenix mayor's plan to build a multi-use facility for them.

This is certainly true of the Coyotes, as illustrated in the endless lease negotiations with Glendale. The NHL and a diverse parade of potential owners insisted that the team would not be financially viable without leveraging substantial subsidies out of the arena operations and the City of Glendale.

 

[aqib]

This presupposes that the Suns and Coyotes have the same interests in common, and they most decidedly do not. Phoenix is such a crowded entertainment market that only the strongest teams are profitable, because outside of the hardcore fans there is so much other stuff to do for the general Arizona public to bother investing in mediocrity.

People keep saying this with southern markets. Its not as if people in New York, Chicago, Philly, Toronto, etc don't have other entertainment options outside of sports.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

People keep saying this with southern markets. Its not as if people in New York, Chicago, Philly, Toronto, etc don't have other entertainment options outside of sports.

What those cities don't have is year-round mild weather; but also, Phoenix is not a metropolitan area with an overwhelming concentration of its population around one city center like the cities you list. Phoenix has all the sprawl of the LA area without the highly-populated downtown nucleus.

 

[Tommy Hawk]

So, I haven't read these in quite some time. I see it is SSDD still

 

[Llama19]

So, I haven't read these in quite some time. I see it is SSDD still

Well...this is not SSDD...

AEG Facilities, the management company of Gila River Arena, is holding a job fair on Friday, August 5 from 4 pm to 7 pm for several part-time positions for the 2016- 2017 Arizona Coyotes season and concert events. They include guest services, parking, security, housekeeping, box office and several other positions.

Source: http://www.abc15.com/money/odysea-aquarium-holding-job-fair-other-companies-hiring-hundreds

 

[Whileee]

Coyotes are buying out Vermette? Is this a budget issue? Makes you wonder how tight IA is keeping the player salary budget for the team.

 

[Llama19]

coyotes are buying out vermette? Is this a budget issue? Makes you wonder how tight ia is keeping the player salary budget for the team.

 

[enarwpg]

Coyotes are buying out Vermette? Is this a budget issue? Makes you wonder how tight IA is keeping the player salary budget for the team.

http://thehockeywriters.com/coyotes-to-buy-out-antoine-vermette-report/

It may just be another move by the organization to lower costs they view as unnecessary in a year where they are still building the contender they believe they will become.

What else could it be....

 

[The Feckless Puck]

 

[Llama19]

Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
Coyotes are buying out Vermette? Is this a budget issue? Makes you wonder how tight IA is keeping the player salary budget for the team.

http://thehockeywriters.com/coyotes-to-buy-out-antoine-vermette-report/

It may just be another move by the organization to lower costs they view as unnecessary in a year where they are still building the contender they believe they will become.

What else could it be....

Lack of actual money...

 

[Whileee]

So, they're dropping Vermette so they can defer a couple million in salary? Even if he doesn't fit into the long-term plans, the smart hockey move is to keep him and trade him for futures at the trade deadline. IA must be facing very tough budgetary issues.

 

[Llama19]

So, they're dropping Vermette so they can defer a couple million in salary? Even if he doesn't fit into the long-term plans, the smart hockey move is to keep him and trade him for futures at the trade deadline. IA must be facing very tough budgetary issues.

When has IceArizona not faced budgetary issues...

 

[The Feckless Puck]

So, they're dropping Vermette so they can defer a couple million in salary? Even if he doesn't fit into the long-term plans, the smart hockey move is to keep him and trade him for futures at the trade deadline. IA must be facing very tough budgetary issues.

I'll agree with this as soon as we find out that this is not the precursor to a trade.