Phoenix CII: Oh, the pain the pain

[BinCookin]

Why should other cities bail out Glendale's mess??? They got themselves into this by trying to develop their own entertainment district to compete and take business away from other municipalities. While people are willing to drive to the boonies 8 times a year in droves for the NFL, it does not seem to work with the NHL, the arena location would also give the Diamondbacks and Suns trouble.

Well my comment was more like. "Nice financial plan, but this entire plan is based on stupidity"... no city should ever do what glendale did. Suggesting several cities group up to help glendale out, is just as stupid. But it is a solution

 

[madhi19]

No one, the governor said, worked harder than Bettman to keep the Coyotes in Glendale for the past decade.

The problem is he should never have gone this far in the first place. He did the NHL and Glendale no favour. If they get out of this mess with a black eye and a damaged reputation, it all down to Gary Bettman not knowing when to walk away. The CoG was run by gullible hicks that did not know the kind of business they were in. He took advantage of that fact instead of being the voice of reason.

They had so many chances to walk away, and every time they found another peddler with a crazier plan than the last one. From Hulsizer to Jamison, from Jamison to Gosbee/Leblanc and Barroway. I can understand getting in the way of Balsillie that made some sense. The rest was just ego getting in the way of good management.

 

[RandR]

You do realize that you are saying that may well have just committed tax fraud?

At minimum, it would be tax avoidance.

It wouldn't be surprised if the reduced stake that Barroway eventually ends up with matches what he actually did contribute. However, on top of the financial ability of Ice Arizona to deal with debt burden and fund ongoing operations of the club, I do wonder if Leblanc et al will also have to worry about possible tax implications if it turns out, as some suspect, that Barroway never did pony up his full share to become majority owner.

The whole financing aspect of the Coyotes ownership reeks as much as how they finangled their way into such a one-sided deal with the CoG.

 

[Coyotedelmar]

Wells Fargo is built for basketball no? They would have to do what US Airways did. US Airways actually renovated the arena with moving chairs and such so hockey could play. A hockey rink couldn't fit in wells fargo currently I imagine, and some construction/changes would have to be made for that to happen. ASU is going to be playing a US Airways though aren't they once they hit D1? I believe it's split games between GRA and US Airways. Why wouldn't US Airways welcome the idea of hosting this tournament if Glendale doesn't want the tournament to happen? Not a big deal if you ask me. I can't imagine Sarver, one of my least favorite owners, saying no to a college hockey tournament.

Yeah Wells Fargo is purely basketball, was just kind of thinking out loud/throwing out ideas. Figured if they wanted to save money and planned to do work on it, they (ASU) might try to find a way to get the rink in as well.

Hadn't heard about the US Airways/Talking Stick Resort Arena thing that I recall, though possible just missed it as I don't really keep up with ASU hockey (or ASU that much despite living pretty close haha) ><. It'd make sense if Sarver was good with it though. See they are playing at least a game at GRA so sounds like a split (couldn't find much else about the other games =/).

 

[awfulwaffle]

Yeah Wells Fargo is purely basketball, was just kind of thinking out loud/throwing out ideas. Figured if they wanted to save money and planned to do work on it, they (ASU) might try to find a way to get the rink in as well.

Hadn't heard about the US Airways/Talking Stick Resort Arena thing that I recall, though possible just missed it as I don't really keep up with ASU hockey (or ASU that much despite living pretty close haha) ><. It'd make sense if Sarver was good with it though. See they are playing at least a game at GRA so sounds like a split (couldn't find much else about the other games =/).

I don't know too much about it, but I read up on it a little. US Airways was basketball only. They had to change some things to make it hockey viable. It went from 18k capacity to I think 16.5k. Some sections were blocked off because of the bad view. My first game was a game a AWA, we got a 4 pack with hot dogs, ticket, and soda. We couldn't see 1/4 the rink.

Current setup isn't viable long term, and just reading that they had to have renovations to switch out some seats for movable ones to allow hockey, wells fargo wouldn't be an option. As far as I know, ASU hockey is going to play at GRA and US Airways. US Airways can house hockey, but it just wasn't the best setup.

If the Coyotes move to Phoenix, they would need a new arena built. The biggest thing in our corner is that the Suns would like a new arena as well right now.

 

[Whileee]

Yeah.... they hard-balled themselves right off the cliff.

In one swift swoop they un-did every single bit of progress the franchise had made since 2009 when Moyes sucked what he could out of the franchise can and tried to make a quick buck on the deposit.

I'm really finding it amusing that people who spent months here referring to them as "Gongdale", or a bunch of backwoods yahoos (along with a few other snappy terms), suddenly feel they're such a righteous bunch.

Nothing " righteous " about any of the characters. It's all about money and politics. The NHL and its lackey owners have been kicking the stuffing out of Glendale for several years using various types of threats and pressure tactics. The crew in Glendale now appear to have had enough, and realize that they won't get a fair deal unless they also play hardball.

 

[TheLegend]

Nothing " righteous " about any of the characters. It's all about money and politics. The NHL and its lackey owners have been kicking the stuffing out of Glendale for several years using various types of threats and pressure tactics. The crew in Glendale now appear to have had enough, and realize that they won't get a fair deal unless they also play hardball.

They aren't going to get anything now.

They nuked themselves.

And not just with the Coyotes and NHL.

 

[Whileee]

They aren't going to get anything now.

They nuked themselves.

And not just with the Coyotes and NHL.

Maybe they had figured out that IA was probably using their out clause and moving in 3 years anyway. Why pour in good money after bad? They will never make money on the arena, but losing less money is still an improvement. They did the math.

 

[OthmarAmmann]

Maybe they had figured out that IA was probably using their out clause and moving in 3 years anyway. Why pour in good money after bad? They will never make money on the arena, but losing less money is still an improvement. They did the math.

As did Barroway apparently.

 

[DopeyFish]

So apparently julie frisoni helped the coyotes make their bid for WJC.

Remember guys, you can't hire a city employee who worked on the contract for anything on the subject matter of the contract... in this case it's arena management

Ouch.

 

[Whileee]

As did Barroway apparently.

Barroway's play always felt like a gambit for relocation. Maybe the NHL poured cold water on that potential windfall.

The Coyotes still haven't really been sold or bought. It's just that a few entities have put money to keep them going like some weird Ponzi scheme. At some point someone needs to pay for everything, and without any profit or deep-pocketed investor this felt like it was going to a relocation sale. Glendale appear to have decided to get off the ride now, rather than after pouring in another 45 million only to see the house of cards tumble and leave them with nothing.

 

[Whileee]

So apparently julie frisoni helped the coyotes make their bid for WJC.

Remember guys, you can't hire a city employee who worked on the contract for anything on the subject matter of the contract... in this case it's arena management

Ouch.

Ice Idiots.... Seriously.

 

[JimAnchower]

I don't know too much about it, but I read up on it a little. US Airways was basketball only. They had to change some things to make it hockey viable. It went from 18k capacity to I think 16.5k. Some sections were blocked off because of the bad view. My first game was a game a AWA, we got a 4 pack with hot dogs, ticket, and soda. We couldn't see 1/4 the rink.

Current setup isn't viable long term, and just reading that they had to have renovations to switch out some seats for movable ones to allow hockey, wells fargo wouldn't be an option. As far as I know, ASU hockey is going to play at GRA and US Airways. US Airways can house hockey, but it just wasn't the best setup.

I can't imagine ASU needing much more than a capacity of 5-6k for ice hockey, so they have a lcouple options for where to play. Only a few college programs need much more than that. For Wells Fargo, does it even have the capability to host hockey? Maybe in the future, probably distant future, ASU builds its own arena for basketball and hockey.

If the Coyotes move to Phoenix, they would need a new arena built. The biggest thing in our corner is that the Suns would like a new arena as well right now.

The two biggest issues for the new arena are how to split the money between the two teams, both costs and revenues, to make it work. This could be solved somewhat if Sarver decided to buy the Coyotes. The other problem is the politics of building another new large arena. That would be three in the area in less than 25 years. Are the people and politicians willing to pay for it?

 

[DopeyFish]

So apparently Frisoni was not hired as interim assistant city manager until august 2013. She was doing PR work for Glendale at the time of lease negotiations... I think this is going to be very difficult to prove.

Though on her website she lists crisis communication under what she does and lists the shehockey conflict between the coyotes and the city... Which would be categorically significant and would fall under the negotiations phase

 

[Whileee]

So apparently Frisoni was not hired as interim assistant city manager until august 2013. She was doing PR work for Glendale at the time of lease negotiations... I think this is going to be very difficult to prove.

Though on her website she lists crisis communication under what she does and lists the shehockey conflict between the coyotes and the city... Which would be categorically significant and would fall under the negotiations phase

Glendale knows what roles she played while with the city. IA and the NHL don't, unless they just take her word for it. That seems to put IA and the NHL in a rather risky situation.

 

[Whileee]

By the way, one of the leaders of the "BeavisPac" Coyotes support group seemed to think that Frisoni was involved in meeting with the IA group at the time, for what it's worth...

 

[JimAnchower]

So apparently Frisoni was not hired as interim assistant city manager until august 2013. She was doing PR work for Glendale at the time of lease negotiations... I think this is going to be very difficult to prove.

Though on her website she lists crisis communication under what she does and lists the shehockey conflict between the coyotes and the city... Which would be categorically significant and would fall under the negotiations phase

What evidence they have is probably irrelevant at this point. As CF and legal experts here have said, neither side wants to go to trial. Trials take time (which the Coyotes don't have), trials cost money (which neither side has), trials foce you to give evidence to the other side (which neither side wants, but particularly the NHL/Coyotes don't want). All for a very uncertain judgement. That all sounds like great reasons for both sides to go back to the bargaining table.

 

[Whileee]

What evidence they have is probably irrelevant at this point. As CF and legal experts here have said, neither side wants to go to trial. Trials take time (which the Coyotes don't have), trials cost money (which neither side has), trials foce you to give evidence to the other side (which neither side wants, but particularly the NHL/Coyotes don't want). All for a very uncertain judgement. That all sounds like great reasons for both sides to go back to the bargaining table.

Bingo. Glendale is playing hardball to get a better deal. Will IA cave? Do they have any other reasonable option?

 

[TheLegend]

So apparently julie frisoni helped the coyotes make their bid for WJC.

Remember guys, you can't hire a city employee who worked on the contract for anything on the subject matter of the contract... in this case it's arena management

Ouch.

Ice Idiots.... Seriously.

Uh.... big difference between negotiating a multi-million dollar lease agreement and putting together a promo package.

But don't let me spoil the moment.

 

[TheLegend]

Bingo. Glendale is playing hardball to get a better deal. Will IA cave? Do they have any other reasonable option?

Phoenix.

The push is on for a new downtown arena for the Suns, or as some have suggested, farther east on the Salt River reservation next to DBack's spring training site. But the latter may not be possible due to state laws if it involves public funds (came up when two other AZ tribes bid on the Cardinals stadium).

Phoenix's mayor has already talked to IA's outside legal team about hosting them in case they lose in court, and the Suns' owner is open to talks.

 

[Chileiceman]

I wonder just how interested Phoenix is in bringing back the team. The Ice Clowns couldn't get an AMF as they wouldn't be the ones "managing" the arena. But if they were able to keep parking and concessions from game-day revenue, and sell more tickets (presumably this would be a lot easier to do playing in downtown PHX), their revenues might be a bit higher. However, if they charge them to use the arena (like most normal landlord-tenant agreements), then they probably wouldn't want anything to do with such a thing.

 

[Whileee]

Uh.... big difference between negotiating a multi-million dollar lease agreement and putting together a promo package.

But don't let me spoil the moment.

The Ice Idiots, NHL and Glendale give an abundance of "precious" moments...

If Frisoni was only putting together promo packages, what possessed Glendale to promote her to Assistant City Manager? My guess is that she was more involved than she (and you) are letting on.

“Working with Julie during the last several years, she consistently displayed a wealth of knowledge, creativity, intelligence, and persistence. These qualities will serve her clients very well in any future projects.â€

Anthony LeBlanc
Arizona Coyotes President, CEO and co-owner

http://www.frisonipr.com/testimonials/

Regardless, Glendale administrators know exactly what she has been doing and the Glendale legal team have decided to throw her out there. Now it's up to IA and the NHL to decide whether it's a bluff. The stakes are pretty high.

Ice Idiots: Why on earth would they decide to employ two former Glendale employees with whom they had dealt with extensively when the one clause in the contract that clearly pointed to an exit strategy for Glendale was related to conflict of interest? Couldn't they find another suitable lawyer or PR firm in the greater Phoenix area?

 

[Whileee]

Phoenix.

The push is on for a new downtown arena for the Suns, or as some have suggested, farther east on the Salt River reservation next to DBack's spring training site. But the latter may not be possible due to state laws if it involves public funds (came up when two other AZ tribes bid on the Cardinals stadium).

Phoenix's mayor has already talked to IA's outside legal team about hosting them in case they lose in court, and the Suns' owner is open to talks.

I expect that a new arena in a better location in the Phoenix area would be a terrific solution for the NHL, fans, etc.

However, someone still needs to come up with a lot of cash to pay for the FIG loan and the NHL's LOC (much of which has probably been burnt up). I think IA was banking on cashing in through relocation to pay a lot of that back. Can the NHL find a new deep-pocketed owner that will hang around until things are sorted out in Phoenix? Who is going to foot the bill for big losses next year in Glendale?

 

[LPHabsFan]

They aren't going to get anything now.

They nuked themselves.

And not just with the Coyotes and NHL.

I'm picking on you because you're the most recent person to mention this but by far not the only one.

I can understand the awkwardness of all of this moving forward but why is this an actual issue moving forward for COG's ability to secure business? Assuming this goes through...

Business X: Ya so just one more thing about this contract. You know that whole thing with the NHL and going back on that deal after two years has left us just a bit skiddish.

COG: Yeah I can understand that but here's the thing. The NHL was only time we did something like that and the only reason we were forced to do it is because THEY VIOLATED STATE LAW. So, we have no intention of doing that, however if you want to be sure it doesn't happen, just don't hire anyone who worked for the COG during the deal and ya know, VIOLATE STATE LAW.

Yes I know it's a bit wishy washy this whole thing but at the end of the day the law is the law.

 

[LPHabsFan]

I expect that a new arena in a better location in the Phoenix area would be a terrific solution for the NHL, fans, etc.

However, someone still needs to come up with a lot of cash to pay for the FIG loan and the NHL's LOC (much of which has probably been burnt up). I think IA was banking on cashing in through relocation to pay a lot of that back. Can the NHL find a new deep-pocketed owner that will hang around until things are sorted out in Phoenix? Who is going to foot the bill for big losses next year in Glendale?

It goes way beyond that Whilee. It's been shown that a successful business model in the NHL pretty much requires owning the building so that you can control every single revenue stream. Any new arena in Phoenix would mean losing out on millions of dollars of revenue from those streams even if they do get a percentage of them. Not only that, are we really expecting ticket prices to jump by 50% within a reasonable amount of time to get them closer to league average for gate revenue?

All this talk about downtown Phoenix being a significantly better option for them is a bit simplistic. It would be better but they would still need an owner with deep pockets to cover losses for several years to come.

And while I doubt this would actually happen, the best and in my opinion only likely scenario for success in Arizona would be for Sarver to buy them since a lot of the overhead costs would be easily absorbed by owning the arena and having the system in place to manage it and manage it properly.