Phoenix CII: Oh, the pain the pain

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saskganesh

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Jun 19, 2006
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the Annex
I don't think that if the US contract doubles in the next renew, it would be quite enough. I think it would have to exceed the current Canadian deal which is, I think, unlikely.

Now that leaves local broadcast revenues. There would have to considerable gains made in a very short time for that to become significant to this franchise's health. Again, unlikely. Hockey is just another entertainment option after all. There's no manifest destiny with it.

Sometimes potential is really just fantasy. A desert mirage. El Dorado.
 

Ernie

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Aug 3, 2004
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Frisoni could be interested in a liable/slander suit against COG et al herself. :popcorn:

Which statements did they make that are factually inaccurate and impugn on her character?

The Coyotes need to stop running around like chickens with their heads cut off.
 

Killion

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Feb 19, 2010
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You have to wonder... is this restraining order simply a stall tactic while the NHL and IA explore their options?

Oh no, more than that, they had to do that in order to protect their tenancy.

This is what I've been wondering. They get together next week and put something together and then what? What happens with all of the people who've denounced Glendale? Do they forgive and forget? Tony's made peace and all is well? Could be. The common fan may have a short memory, but sponsors? Hmph.

No, seems to have gone well beyond that point, a point of no return. LeBlanc & Bettman making beyond inflammatory comments, the documents submitted for the TRO echoing same though not quite as vitriolic as what AB & GB have been telling the media. Politicians have long memories. For Glendale to cave & reverse that vote, turn the ship around now, that'd be it for their chances of re-election. Open admission that they didnt have a clue what they were doing & buckled under the weight of their votes consequences. They cant go back now.

Bingo. Glendale is playing hardball to get a better deal. Will IA cave? Do they have any other reasonable option?

I dont think so Whileee. IA has absolutely nothing to gain & everything to lose in re-opening the Agreement. Indeed, one might look at this as really & truly being the final nail in the coffin. That whats transpired virtually guarantees that these guys & this team, absolute goners. Just took one heavy cannonade from the City to take out their masts & sails, blown to smithereens. These positions on both sides now seemingly intractable & entrenched. Matter of principal & pride on both sides along with survival itself.

Those are the key questions for Barroway. If he really put in money, his bank account will soon have a big deposit soon. If he didn't, as the rumor suggests, then it was just a shell game with no money actually changing hands. The shares of the team might as be 1920's German Papiermarks during hyperinflation, worth virtually nothing.

Im absolutely 110% certain this is the case Jim. Shell game. He doesnt have any real money in the game. None of them do & what little they do have is guaranteed by the NHL. Its all a front. Dummy Corporation. The NHL has acted dishonorably & deceitfully throughout this entire fiasco going right back to 2008. That was a "non-sale". Total fabrication back in 2013. Since Dec 2014 & Barroway's entry stage right, merely playing a role, now its exit stage left, the reasons for which Im sure if we think through may find an answer or two. But ya, Ive always thought he was just a Stooge. NHL Recruited Sockpuppet. Disinformation Officer. Never bought that story that he was introduced by "happenstance", just "coincidentally" by Fortress to Anthony LeBlanc. Gimme a break. Strains all credulity. Story doesnt hold up under the light of a match for Godzsake.
 
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Killion

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Feb 19, 2010
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... There was a lot of coercion that went into getting the lease votes passed. The leases were all lopsided in favor of the team and Mr. Tindall was right in the middle of it all. Now he works for them. If a judge pivots to the appearance of impropriety standard, IA is screwed.

Because that's how corruption works?

Precisely. And Im pretty damn sure any Judge looking at this will recognize that and in short order.... And yes, between Tindall & Frisoni, their screwed, imprudent, arrogant & reckless hirings, thinking they could just get away with anything after having looted the vaults. The money was in fact marked & being traced and they spent it far too quickly. Busted. Criminals are dumb.
 

blues10

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Dec 10, 2010
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NHL Recruited Sockpuppet. Disinformation Officer. Never bought that story that he was introduced by "happenstance", just "coincidentally" by Fortress to Anthony LeBlanc. Gimme a break. Strains all credulity. Story doesnt hold up under the light of a match for Godzsake.

The sockpuppet also appeared when ASG had the Thrashers up for sale. L'ill Gary must have him in is rolodex.;)


:)

Barroway is a sham and may also be a contributing factor to the COG's line of recent tactics realizing that IA has been playing them all along. Weirs does not seem like the type of guy who would be amused by this.
 

Killion

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Feb 19, 2010
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Sometimes potential is really just fantasy. A desert mirage. El Dorado.

.... absolutely. And as we know, lots of unscrupulous people selling it in various guises.

calling them criminals seems a little harsh for IA.

I dont take kindly to extortionists, people who quite consciously over-promise & grossly under-deliver. What would you call people like that DyerMaker?
 

kdb209

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Jan 26, 2005
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Gila River Arena is in Glendale. US Airways(and more firepower with money available for booking gigs, and a much easier sell), is in Phoenix. The airport is just down the road from US Airways compared to Glendale. Why wouldn't acts want to go to US Airways to easily sell more tickets since that's where the population lives and can get to easier than the middle of nowhere.

From 2003 when it opened through 2010 Glendale Arena / Jobbing.com Arena generally outdrew the AWA / US Airways Center for concerts - based on the Pollstar numbers (tickets sold for non-sporting events) - some years significantly.

It was only after the bankruptcy, under the NHL and IA, that the arena bookings died of neglect.
 

Killion

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Feb 19, 2010
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From 2003 when it opened through 2010 Glendale Arena / Jobbing.com Arena generally outdrew the AWA / US Airways Center for concerts - based on the Pollstar numbers (tickets sold for non-sporting events) - some years significantly.

It was only after the bankruptcy, under the NHL and IA, that the arena bookings died of neglect.

Ya. Excuses. All we've heard from LeBlanc. The domain of amateurs, the disingenuous.
 

DyerMaker66*

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I dont take kindly to extortionists, people who quite consciously over-promise & grossly under-deliver. What would you call people like that DyerMaker?
I view the NHL as the extortionists, not IA.

Over-promise is bit disingenuous: All businesses talk about the greatest possible return. I doubt many achieve it. Under-delivery was evident in the market prior to them buying the team, imo.

Generally, I'd call that type of person "a politician".
 

MeticulouslyDishevel

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Oct 23, 2012
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A couple thoughts regarding two issues that have been posted a bit lately... 1) The possibility of the club moving to downtown Phoenix and 2) The Canadians selling majority control to Barroway for tax reasons.

1 - They lost massive amounts of money in the first place when they were downtown before moving to Glendale, and this club has virtually zero local broadcast revenues ... how would they survive, even in the short term, as renters again ?

2 - What tax reasons ? There's no income to pay tax on.




Yes !! Shoaltsie is back ... I missed those beautiful Hawaiian shirts ... now if only Richard Rodier and the Ice Clowns would weigh in (although Leblanc has definitely stepped up for the group) ... and has anyone ever found Jamison's body ? So exciting ! Thanks Glendale.

To answer your 2nd question, the value of the franchise is supposedly around $300-350m (I can't give you the exact number at the moment as I'm on my phone) now with NHL related revenues like the new broadcast deal. If the Canadians have majority ownership they have to declare this to Revenue Canada, and would have to pay capital gains tax to reflect the increased value of the franchise. The tax hit is estimated at about $20m.
 
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NickWIHockey

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Jan 3, 2013
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a reduction to 6m subsidy would kill the coyotes. 6m itself is on the high end for subsidies, lets alone the 15M robbery they've been getting away with . no. this upcoming season is almost certainly going to be the last in Arizona for the Coyotes imo.
 

blues10

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Dec 10, 2010
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Hot take alert!



I didn't know Craig Morgan wrote for the NYP.:sarcasm:

Really, this is true? the NHL pocket $170 million in the Thrashers sale.:laugh:

then let the Coyotes relocate East, say to Quebec City, getting something like what Winnipeg paid ($170 million) for the Thrashers to move from Atlanta.

Pure silliness. Until the next drivel from either side.:popcorn:
 

Ciao

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Jul 15, 2010
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Gila River Arena is in Glendale. US Airways(and more firepower with money available for booking gigs, and a much easier sell), is in Phoenix. The airport is just down the road from US Airways compared to Glendale. Why wouldn't acts want to go to US Airways to easily sell more tickets since that's where the population lives and can get to easier than the middle of nowhere.

It's not a hard sell for US Airways to say "We are on the light rail, closer to the east side of the valley that has more money, more people, etc." Yes, people will still go to concerts if an artist they like is in town. But I for one don't like going down to Rawhide in Chandler. There have been some DJs that have come through that i didn't go see because it sucks to go down there. I'd much rather go to Marquee Theater or Monarch Theater.

Location, location, location!

FYI, Rexall Place is in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, a small city a fraction the size of the Greater Phoenix area. Even my family in Winnipeg don't go to Edmonton nearly as often as Phoenix.

If you think performers don't like going to Glendale, try getting someone to go to Edmonton (in February).

Your points are valid, AW (you are an inscrutably fair and balanced poster), but the OP has a point too and the comparison to the Rexall Centre is valid.
 
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IPreferPi

A Nonny Mouse
Jun 22, 2012
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Phoenix, AZ
Glendale knows what roles she played while with the city. IA and the NHL don't, unless they just take her word for it. That seems to put IA and the NHL in a rather risky situation.

Frisoni was a public spokesperson/communications director for Glendale when the lease was negotiated. In what universe does a city allow their PR guy with a B.A. in Communications to become significantly involved in drafting/negotiating a multimillion dollar lease agreement on their behalf when they have actual lawyers for that task?
 

Whileee

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May 29, 2010
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Not answering this on moral grounds nor asking the question about right or wrong, but IMO.... in the world of high priced million dollar deals and business, I honestly don't think there are many people in this world that wouldn't have done what IA did.... and that is, when having to negotiate a deal with the CoG, hiring "ex-employees" whom might know the inner-workings of the city, and hence might help me get the best deal.

I think this is done by big business every single day in every business in the world. Why else would we have so many lawyers around who's only job is to push the barrier as far as they can without breaking it OR getting caught breaking it.

So again not saying right or wrong or smart or stupid.... IMO IA did what most businesses would have done. They just made the mistake of thinking nobody would notice.

.... absolutely. And as we know, lots of unscrupulous people selling it in various guises.

I dont take kindly to extortionists, people who quite consciously over-promise & grossly under-deliver. What would you call people like that DyerMaker?

Ya. Excuses. All we've heard from LeBlanc. The domain of amateurs, the disingenuous.

I view the NHL as the extortionists, not IA.

Over-promise is bit disingenuous: All businesses talk about the greatest possible return. I doubt many achieve it. Under-delivery was evident in the market prior to them buying the team, imo.

Generally, I'd call that type of person "a politician".

The CoG really has nobody to blame but themselves. They had deep suspicions about the motives and wherewithal of the NHL and IA, specifically:

1) Concerned that IA has put very little money up to actually purchase the team, so that their $15 million in AMF wasn't actually going to help operate the team, but just to pay off a huge loan to purchase the team.

2) They were understandably concerned with IA's insistence of a 5-year out clause. This largely stemmed from the structure of the deal, which had IA having to pay back the large LOC from the NHL after 5 years. IA had trouble scraping together $45 million to purchase equity in the team, so how likely are they to come up with the money to pay back up to $85 million in loans from the NHL if the Coyotes continued to lose tons of money? They wanted IA to forego the "out clause", but that was rejected.

3) They were worried that IA had no experience or motivation to put a lot of effort into attracting non-hockey events. Without good performance in that area, they knew that they were going to lose big on the AMF. So, they requested a performance clause, which was flatly rejected by IA.

However, also remember that these negotiations weren't all smiles and giggles. The NHL had put a severe threat to Glendale that they would yank the team out unless Glendale met all of their conditions. So much for an amicable partnership.

Now, move ahead a couple of years....

IA is losing money on the Coyotes operation at an alarming rate. The planned investment of new money from Barroway seems to have evaporated. It seems highly unlikely that IA will be able to pay back the NHL for use of the LOC, so the likely outcome is relocation at five years, after Glendale has poured another $70+ million into the Coyotes.

IA's performance on bringing non-hockey events to the arena remain dismal. It's almost as though they aren't trying. So all of the reassurances that they will make efforts in this area seem hollow. Without a performance clause, Glendale has no recourse to balance the equation between the management fee and the revenue generation at the arena.

Glendale is clearly ticked off that they were forced into this deal with threats of imminent relocation, and that IA has been such a dismal failure in their performance of arena management. They looked for a loophole to try to force IA to renegotiate. IA gave it to them by hiring Tindall and Frisoni, and we're off to the races....
 

CasualFan

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Nov 27, 2009
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Frisoni was a public spokesperson/communications director for Glendale when the lease was negotiated. In what universe does a city allow their PR guy with a B.A. in Communications to become significantly involved in drafting/negotiating a multimillion dollar lease agreement on their behalf when they have actual lawyers for that task?

the universe where the majority of the city staff acted unethically and were subsequently fired for such? who said they "allowed" her to play a role in the securing of the lease? perhaps she played a role that was outside of her job title and duties? have you considered that possibility yet?
 

blues10

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Dec 10, 2010
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Frisoni was a public spokesperson/communications director for Glendale when the lease was negotiated. In what universe does a city allow their PR guy with a B.A. in Communications to become significantly involved in drafting/negotiating a multimillion dollar lease agreement on their behalf when they have actual lawyers for that task?

Is this Frisoni at Scruggs side?

 

letowskie

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the universe where the majority of the city staff acted unethically and were subsequently fired for such? who said they "allowed" her to play a role in the securing of the lease? perhaps she played a role that was outside of her job title and duties? have you considered that possibility yet?

So basically you are saying that you don't really know the details about Frisoni;

{Mod}
 
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