Player Discussion Phillip Danault - The Centermania Sequel

[Mrb1p]

I personnaly think this is a fair value. Why trade him and try to replace him by a 3-4M center whith average defensive number to save 1-2M ?

This guy is not a trouble in the room, is dedictated to the game is showing up every night and as an extra is from the Quebec area. This could easily become a Radulov #2 story because of a cheap GM that won't pay the right money to keep useful player.

Hes not trouble in the room? He literally said he was the best center on the team and needed to be paid as such and wants the best wingers and most ice time.

Also Radulov was bad because they lost him for nothing. I agree, dont lose him for nothing and actually strengthen a weakness on the wing with a position of strength.


3C is much less important than top 6 RW, especially when you consider the Habs wingers. Two top 6 wingers out of all of them, two.

 

[Kriss E]

That was exactly Dennis Bernstein's take earlier this afternoon on 690. The team is no closer to contention just because of the play-ins. He also mentioned how you don't want to go into the season not knowing if Danault is going to sign and then lose him for nothing next year.

I think it's fine going into the season not knowing what Danault wants, what is most important is where we see the team moving because Danault is a moving piece. I think his offense is easily replaceable. He's not a catalyst. He doesn't create much, he's not a big playmaker, he doesn't score having never produced 15 goals yet, so I'm not worried about losing his offensive touch. What he brings is versatility with the ability to slot in at a higher spot if needed and smart defensively play along with strong FO abilities.
So worse comes to worst, I'm confident we could replace his contributions fairly easy.
We are not talking about a Patrice Bergeron, Anze Kopitar, Jon Toews here. Not even talking about a Tomas Plekanec.

So I'm fine going into the season without speaking to Danault. I move him regardless of where we are in the standings if the intention is not to extend him.

 

[DAChampion]

3C is much less important than top 6 RW, especially when you consider the Habs wingers. Two top 6 wingers out of all of them, two.

That's not obviously true.

 

[Mrb1p]

That's not obviously true.

It is, especially when you have good top 6 Cs and no good wingers. You want to maximize your player value, best way for that is to play your players. A top winger will play more and in more importsnt situations than a third C.

Relying on lesser talents has killed this team for so long, its enough now.

Teams win with their best player outplaying the leagues bests, the Habs try to win with Danault shutting down the leagues best.

Asinine.

 

[Runner77]

I think it's fine going into the season not knowing what Danault wants, what is most important is where we see the team moving because Danault is a moving piece. I think his offense is easily replaceable. He's not a catalyst. He doesn't create much, he's not a big playmaker, he doesn't score having never produced 15 goals yet, so I'm not worried about losing his offensive touch. What he brings is versatility with the ability to slot in at a higher spot if needed and smart defensively play along with strong FO abilities.
So worse comes to worst, I'm confident we could replace his contributions fairly easy.
We are not talking about a Patrice Bergeron, Anze Kopitar, Jon Toews here. Not even talking about a Tomas Plekanec.

So I'm fine going into the season without speaking to Danault. I move him regardless of where we are in the standings if the intention is not to extend him.

How do you figure it's fine going into the season not knowing what Danault wants? He's already stated what he wants. And we know there is a certain price tag attached to his wishes.

So, are you not getting more certainty by trading him now rather than going through the season and then turn him into a TDL candidate, if negotiations failed?

 

[Mrb1p]

How do you figure it's fine going into the season not knowing what Danault wants? He's already stated what he wants. And we know there is a certain price tag attached to his wishes.

So, are you not getting more certainty by trading him now rather than going through the season and then turn him into a TDL candidate, if negotiations failed?

Youll get more value now than when he will have played most of the year away from the two smurfs.

 

[Runner77]

Youll get more value now than when he will have played most of the year away from the two smurfs.

That's what I figure. They should get to the bottom of it now.

 

[Kriss E]

How do you figure it's fine going into the season not knowing what Danault wants? He's already stated what he wants. And we know there is a certain price tag attached to his wishes.

So, are you not getting more certainty by trading him now rather than going through the season and then turn him into a TDL candidate, if negotiations failed?

Not necessarily. I don't think every upcoming UFA makes it clear before the beginning of the season exactly what his intentions are.
You can have a general idea, Danault mentioned he'd be open to stay but wants a good role, okay...so I have an idea. Now I can hear what his value is today around the league, I can see what it is at the draft again and by the opening of next season. I won't move him earlier if I'm not satisfied with the offer just because his value might drop. Maybe it won't. A guy like Danault could be a very valuable addition at the TDL for a contending team.

I'll move Danault when I'm happy with the deal, if that never comes, I'll happily wait to the last moment and cut my losses short if I have to.

 

[DAChampion]

It is, especially when you have good top 6 Cs and no good wingers. You want to maximize your player value, best way for that is to play your players. A top winger will play more and in more importsnt situations than a third C.

Relying on lesser talents has killed this team for so long, its enough now.

Teams win with their best player outplaying the leagues bests, the Habs try to win with Danault shutting down the leagues best.

Asinine.

The Habs are not the other teams. They have to work with what they have.

If Danault neutralizes the opponent's to forwards, that liberates Kotkaniemi and Suzuki to feast on the rest of those rosters.

 

[Runner77]

Not necessarily. I don't think every upcoming UFA makes it clear before the beginning of the season exactly what his intentions are.
You can have a general idea, Danault mentioned he'd be open to stay but wants a good role, okay...so I have an idea. Now I can hear what his value is today around the league, I can see what it is at the draft again and by the opening of next season. I won't move him earlier if I'm not satisfied with the offer just because his value might drop. Maybe it won't. A guy like Danault could be a very valuable addition at the TDL for a contending team.

I'll move Danault when I'm happy with the deal, if that never comes, I'll happily wait to the last moment and cut my losses short if I have to.

So, you don't think you could get max value for Danault before the start of the season? Let's assume Danault's position remains as is and wants to play a top line role -- you know you can't pay him that, nor promise him that role. I know you can get good value at the TDL for him but I just figured you can get more for him in the off season.

 

[Bouboumaster]

Like someone on this forum previously said, someone like Guy Carbonneau should go sit with him and explain to him that his chances to enter the HHOF one day are better if he wins a bunch of Selkes, because he's not entering otherwise. He's a pretty good 2nd line center, he would be the best 3rd liner in the league, who could replace either Suzuki or Kotkaniemi if needed.

One of the better PK specialist in the league.
I don't want to trade him, I love me some Danault, but he's not putting enough numbers :/

 

[Kriss E]

So, you don't think you could get max value for Danault before the start of the season? Let's assume Danault's position remains as is and wants to play a top line role -- you know you can't pay him that, nor promise him that role. I know you can get good value at the TDL for him but I just figured you can get more for him in the off season.

Sadly it's impossible for us to actually know. We aren't privy to this information.
All I'm saying is, if I wasn't please with the return, I wouldn't rush to trade him. I'd rather gamble on him improving his value and moving him later.

 

[Runner77]

Sadly it's impossible for us to actually know. We aren't privy to this information.
All I'm saying is, if I wasn't please with the return, I wouldn't rush to trade him. I'd rather gamble on him improving his value and moving him later.

I see what you mean. I was referring to precedents at large, based on how GMs seem to do well in the off season.

 

[Mrb1p]

The Habs are not the other teams. They have to work with what they have.

If Danault neutralizes the opponent's to forwards, that liberates Kotkaniemi and Suzuki to feast on the rest of those rosters.

What they have is too many centers and not enough wingers.

Danault is not good enough to neutralize opponents, it hasnt worked in three years now, even with the best two way player on the tram strapped to his hip.

Its okay to let go of players, every team does it. The goal is to get better, you can do this by moving things around.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

At one point you gotta commit. Hes entering his 3rd year in the NHL already. You have to give him good wingers. Nothing will come up if you don't give him the tools to get better. Obv the best thing would be Danault accepting to be a 3rd liner , but the looks of it , he will probably be gone.

I think it's time that habs commit into a real change instead of keep the same core. I have nothing against trading Danault and Domi. We can still sign a decent thirdliner. Danault is luxury for a 3rd liner for us. But you gotta make a decision. If habs keep danault as 2nd center , then trade Kotkaniemi.

God forbid

Sigh

 

[DAChampion]

What they have is too many centers and not enough wingers.

Danault is not good enough to neutralize opponents, it hasnt worked in three years now, even with the best two way player on the tram strapped to his hip.

Its okay to let go of players, every team does it. The goal is to get better, you can do this by moving things around.

Is Danault's +35 in the past two years while playing predominantly defensive matchups against predominantly better players somehow not meaningful?

To the extent things haven't been working, it's because the rest of the lineup hasn't been working. That includes the lack of puck support from the D, Carey Price's .909 SV%, and the poorly managed power play.

It's kind of like Subban in 2012. The team didn't do badly because he was a bad number 1D, the team did badly in spite of him being a great number 1D.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

How do you figure it's fine going into the season not knowing what Danault wants? He's already stated what he wants. And we know there is a certain price tag attached to his wishes.

So, are you not getting more certainty by trading him now rather than going through the season and then turn him into a TDL candidate, if negotiations failed?

Time to trade is now, but obviously, since their goal is to milk the fanbase to its very last drop, they'll keep him around for the season, because of some dim chance of a first round exit.

 

[Mrb1p]

Is Danault's +35 in the past two years while playing predominantly defensive matchups against predominantly better players somehow not meaningful?

To the extent things haven't been working, it's because the rest of the lineup hasn't been working. That includes the lack of puck support from the D, Carey Price's .909 SV%, and the poorly managed power play.

It's kind of like Subban in 2012. The team didn't do badly because he was a bad number 1D, the team did badly in spite of him being a great number 1D.

Being +35 in the regular season means nothing because that team is good enough to feed on bad ones. Around january or February last year, I compiled every single one of his points and the goals scored against him, he gets completely destroyed by actual top lines in the NHL. His point production came against something like 80% 3rd/4th line opponents and the rest was top line production. Now Im not going to say i checked lately but Id imagine the numbers are still similar.

 

[Canadienna]

Finished 6th for the Selke...

Auston Matthews got the same amount of Selke winner votes as Danault?

Danault is a very good hockey player, regardless of what #C he should be he's definitely part of that top 6 selke tier before the points dropoff.

I feel like his value right now would be sky high as well. I don't want to move him just to move him, but I am hoping that some GM out there is really looking for an elite shutdown C and willing to pay a good price.

 

[Archijerej]

Irony of ironies is how over the past few years, we've been hearing how the team would really have taken a step forward when they could slot Danault on the third line.

Now that we seem to be in that position, Danault doesn't want to play on the 3rd line.

Slotting Danault on the third line always made sense only when we have two centermen that are better then him. We don't.

 

[SOLR]

Slotting Danault on the third line always made sense only when we have two centermen that are better then him. We don't.

They are already better offensively + I think Suzuki is better in every aspect already. What is chasing Danault from the top 6 is Suzuki's dominance. For the next 3-4 years this will only amplify. The 2nd line is always an offensive line with a protected center. KK is vastly superior to Danault offensively.

I never thought of Danault as a good leader and now he's proving it.

 

[WickedPegJets]

For Claude Julien’s heart sake and to prevent an ulcer, trade Max Domi. They simply do not like each other and for Bergevin to saddle Julien with un garçon mauvais would be cruel.

 

[Archijerej]

They are already better offensively + I think Suzuki is better in every aspect already. What is chasing Danault from the top 6 is Suzuki's dominance. For the next 3-4 years this will only amplify. The 2nd line is always an offensive line with a protected center. KK is vastly superior to Danault offensively.

I never thought of Danault as a good leader and now he's proving it.

That's simply not true.

 

[1000eeer]

Erik Haula would be a really good option on the UFA market to replace Danault if they should trade him..

He's from Pori Finland.. Who else is from Pori, Finland? KK and Armia...

Haula would be perfect as a third line center.

 

[Mrb1p]

That's simply not true.

What isnt?

Hes shown a lack of leadership by not accepting his role and throwing teammates under the bus.

Suzuki produced more than him in worse circumstances, we can expect this to keep up.

KK needs to prove it over more games but in the POs, he was absolutelt better offensively. He wasnt far off in his first season either. But, more so, its KKs 3rd season now, a step has to be taken.