Player Discussion Phillip Danault part 2

[abo9]

In how many games?

How many goals, by line, have we scored, since Lehkonen-Danault-Gallagher was put together?

Ehh they were formed after Winnipeg game 1 correct?
They got 1 goal in game 3, 1 goal in game 4. Out of 9 goals, or out of 10 goals if you count last night.

The Suzuki and Perry lines do most of the goal scoring. If Vegas neutralize those we're as good as dead.

More than the Byron KK Anderson line?

Yep, I think they have 0. They're pretty crappy offensively, I bet the "mot d'ordre" for them is "hit hit hit" - energy line. Both Anderson and Byron have 0 vision, and both are not big scoring threat after all. That leaves Kotkaniemi as the only guy who can contribute to the offense, but he's still so dependant on others to produce.

 

[Archijerej]

Ehh they were formed after Winnipeg game 1 correct?
They got 1 goal in game 3, 1 goal in game 4. Out of 9 goals, or out of 10 goals if you count last night.

I meant even-strength goals, exclusively. No point discussing the lines outside 5 on 5 play. I wouldn't count the empty netters as well.

Bottom line is, who is Ducharme going to play, if not either Suzuki's or Danault's line? Did Kotkaniemi strike you yesterday as needing more minutes? He was one of our weakest forwards and hasn't been creating anything since game 1 against the Jets.

 

[abo9]

I meant even-strength goals, exclusively. No point discussing the lines outside 5 on 5 play. I wouldn't count the empty netters as well.

Bottom line is, who is Ducharme going to play, if not either Suzuki's or Danault's line? Did Kotkaniemi strike you yesterday as needing more minutes? He was one of our weakest forwards and hasn't been creating anything since game 1 against the Jets.

Why no point in counting outside 5 vs 5? When you pull the goalie it's 6 vs 5, not 5 vs 5.
And even under those specific conditions, that line scored 2 goals in the whole playoffs lol. Or 2 goals in the last 4 games if you prefer to count only with Lehkonen on the line.

And why not Kotkaniemi? He at least can score. Armia or Staal should have been before too.

But, like I literally said in my previous comment: Last night I was exceptionally fine with playing Danault in the dying minutes because the team as a whole did not show up.

 

[Hockey Joe]

I have never seen a centre playing that much, while been that inept offensively.

Look no further than the centres he was facing.

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

his line played 10:31 ES last night , also managed to not get scored against while Ns and KK who played a 1-2 mins under him both conceded two goals against...

What a weird take to go after him based on last game

He plays exactly 18:57/night on average since the playoffs started. He's a forward, who's playing a lot, his main job is to produce offensively, his second job is to play well in his own zone, he's doing half of the job. KK and Suzuki are already doing what they can offensively, one scored 4 goals, with two pylons on his wing and the other has 8 points in 12 games.

Neither goal yesterday was Suzuki's fault, but KK missed his man on one goal against, the other he could not do much to prevent it.

It's not weird to blame the only goalless forward in the team when we just lost a game... Maybe I should lower the bar like most Habs fans who are praising Phillip...

 

[canucklover123]

He plays exactly 18:57/night on average since the playoffs started. He's a forward, who's playing a lot, his main job is to produce offensively, his second job is to play well in his own zone, he's doing half of the job. KK and Suzuki are already doing what they can offensively, one scored 4 goals, with two pylons on his wing and the other has 8 points in 12 games.

Neither goal yesterday was Suzuki's fault, but KK missed his man on one goal against, the other he could not do much to prevent it.

It's not weird to blame the only goalless forward in the team when we just lost a game... Maybe I should lower the bar like most Habs fans who are praising Phillip...

So ignoring all your questionable takes as we've discussed them in the past or how you rank what a forward should be doing...

what I want to know is how you don't blame KK or NS for a loss draw that lead to a goal lol, seems like quite the double standard based off what you were trying to blame Dnaault for prior

NS has done well against inferior competition, he also managed to get 8 points with our best winger, 4 of them are on the PP but wtv. He's been good.

KK who plays competition worse than NS, managed to get 4 ES goals, which is commendable. He is also a -5, meaning he has been on for 9 goals these playoffs against awful competition. Good enough for second worst on the team up front.

What I saw last night, is NS and KK finally going up against a team who actually had a legitimate second and third line and sadly, they both ended up -2.

Maybe Danault can get a point or two playing with Toffoli, getting away from the hardest matchup and having some offensive zone starts.... Does that mean we should try that? No


Again, seems like quite the double standard based off the "opinions" you presented. Like I said, what a weird game to come after Dnaault for.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

...Danault is not going to be as effective defensively this Series because Vegas scores as a team, not just a couple of star forwards that we can stick Phil on like glue...that line needs to start producing offensively, period...

 

[Ezpz]

...Danault is not going to be as effective defensively this Series because Vegas scores as a team, not just a couple of star forwards that we can stick Phil on like glue...that line needs to start producing offensively, period...

Danault is showing why he doesn't have a role on the team in the top 6. The truth is there a lot more Vegas-built teams than Toronto in the league. Do we pay Danault 5 mil to get an extra 5-6 points from Toronto, Colorado, Edmonton, Vancouver, Pittsburgh and Washington? What about the other 25 teams that don't rely on 1-2 star players to carry them?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Solid player and I sure was glad to have him vs TO. And I know I'd be happy to have him vs Tampa. Against Vegas though, I think he's going to be limited somewhat. No big center to shadow and they play so physical.

 

[LaTenderness]

Y’a watching him try to create offensively is painful

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

So ignoring all your questionable takes as we've discussed them in the past or how you rank what a forward should be doing...

Tell me what are your expectations for a #2C then...

what I want to know is how you don't blame KK or NS for a loss draw that lead to a goal lol, seems like quite the double standard based off what you were trying to blame Dnaault for prior

I did not blame Danault for that play, where I said that it was Danault's fault, had Price not made the save ? I told you that he would be -1, I also said that it was not his fault... But on paper he would be -1 against Stone's line. Because most people are stat watching, including you with the -/+ stats, nobody would be talking about his shutting down ability. It's like that since the playoffs started, Price is bailing out the D and Danault.

I don't want to blame KK and NS, because they lost faceoffs, it's a toss coin play, especially if they did nothing wrong on the play, excluding losing the faceoff.

NS has done well against inferior competition, he also managed to get 8 points with our best winger, 4 of them are on the PP but wtv. He's been good.

You can try to downplay Suzuki as much as you want, by pointing out that half of his production is from the power play and that he has the best wingers. You want the best wingers to play with whom ? He's our best centre, of course, he should play with the best wingers. Even if you include his rubbish -2 yesterday, Suzuki has been on ice for only 4 goals against at ES since the playoffs started.

KK who plays competition worse than NS, managed to get 4 ES goals, which is commendable. He is also a -5, meaning he has been on for 9 goals these playoffs against awful competition. Good enough for second worst on the team up front.

The fact that he was on ice for 8 GA at ES, means that it's been his fault that these goals were scored ? Stat watching is not a good way to measure the defensive ability of a player.

What I saw last night, is NS and KK finally going up against a team who actually had a legitimate second and third line and sadly, they both ended up -2.

Do you blame NS and KK for the faceoffs they lost that ended behind the net ?

Maybe Danault can get a point or two playing with Toffoli, getting away from the hardest matchup and having some offensive zone starts.... Does that mean we should try that? No

Danault was playing against Marner, Matthews, Dubois, Conor... Pretty sure these guys are not the best defensive players of their teams. Danault is not producing offensively, because his shot is bad, his passing, if we are generous, is above average, he has cemented hands and no creativity in his game.

Again, seems like quite the double standard based off the "opinions" you presented. Like I said, what a weird game to come after Dnaault for.

What are your expectations for Danault ? How is it weird to go after a player who's goalless in 12 games when we just lost, mostly because we were not able to score ?

 

[canucklover123]

Tell me what are your expectations for a #2C then...



I did not blame Danault for that play, where I said that it was Danault's fault, had Price not made the save ? I told you that he would be -1, I also said that it was not his fault... But on paper he would be -1 against Stone's line. Because most people are stat watching, including you with the -/+ stats, nobody would be talking about his shutting down ability. It's like that since the playoffs started, Price is bailing out the D and Danault.

I don't want to blame KK and NS, because they lost faceoffs, it's a toss coin play, especially if they did nothing wrong on the play, excluding losing the faceoff.



You can try to downplay Suzuki as much as you want, by pointing out that half of his production is from the power play and that he has the best wingers. You want the best wingers to play with whom ? He's our best centre, of course, he should play with the best wingers. Even if you include his rubbish -2 yesterday, Suzuki has been on ice for only 4 goals against at ES since the playoffs started.



The fact that he was on ice for 8 GA at ES, means that it's been his fault that these goals were scored ? Stat watching is not a good way to measure the defensive ability of a player.



Do you blame NS and KK for the faceoffs they lost that ended behind the net ?



Danault was playing against Marner, Matthews, Dubois, Conor... Pretty sure these guys are not the best defensive players of their teams. Danault is not producing offensively, because his shot is bad, his passing, if we are generous, is above average, he has cemented hands and no creativity in his game.




What are your expectations for Danault ? How is it weird to go after a player who's goalless in 12 games when we just lost, mostly because we were not able to score ?

It's worrisome, that you go to this extent with your takes just because you wanna be "right" about Danault.

Anywho, most of these post just makes you look silly, lacks any form of fact other than your opinion but for fun..... couple things

1- It took me all of five seconds to search "Danault", "faceoff" under your name to see you care an awful lot about the defensive zone face-offs Danault lost, it is unfortunate you cant keep the same standard when talking about anyone other than Danault, especially as it led to two goals. Feel free to delete them, there are a lot

2- Telling someone they are a stat watcher as your only argument isn't a good argument lmao. But lets play through your lens because I enjoy it, you posted above Carey, the defense, (might as well add the fans, god, etc) made Danault look better than he was against the leafs, so let me ask you, if you apply the same logic to the team in the PO (unless you think Carey hates NS or KK), could you imagine the +/- KK would have if it wasnt for Carey.

But I am sure you will find a way to say its not his fault because youre not a "stat watcher"


and the marner, matthews, dubious comment, lmao cmon man, this is exactly what I meant.

So please try to keep the same standard next time for all our players .

Anyway I'm out

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

It's worrisome, that you go to this extent with your takes just because you wanna be "right" about Danault.

Anywho, most of these post just makes you look silly, lacks any form of fact other than your opinion but for fun..... couple things
1- It took me all of five seconds to search "Danault", "faceoff" under your name to see you care an awful lot about the defensive zone face-offs Danault lost, it is unfortunate you cant keep the same standard when talking about anyone other than Danault, especially as it led to two goals. Feel free to delete them, there are a lot

You need to understand the nuance between blaming someone for a goal only because he lost a faceoff and pointing that someone lost many faceoffs, it's not the same thing. You are free to dig my messages, I have nothing to hide and I won't delete anything, maybe that's a tactic you use, but it's not my case.

2- Telling someone they are a stat watcher as your only argument isn't a good argument lmao.

You are using the -/+ to determine if someone is good or bad defensively, that's stat watching, it's what you are doing.

But lets play through your lens because I enjoy it, you posted above Carey, the defense, (might as well add the fans, god, etc) made Danault look better than he was against the leafs, so let me ask you, if you apply the same logic to the team in the PO (unless you think Carey hates NS or KK), could you imagine the +/- KK would have if it wasnt for Carey.

Without Price in God mode, KK's and Suzuki's -/+ would be worse, but fortunately the kids are doing more than just defending, they contribute offensively, they have four goals each, some of them were crucial in our playoff run. Again, Suzuki was on ice for only one more goal against at ES than Danault, even if you include the -2 for two faceoffs he lost.

But I am sure you will find a way to say its not his fault because youre not a "stat watcher"

Answer my question, do you blame NS and KK for the goals scored because they lost faceoffs ?

and the marner, matthews, dubious comment, lmao cmon man, this is exactly what I meant.

So please try to keep the same standard next time for all our players .

Anyway I'm out

If player X is not producing offensively, his sole jobs are to defend and win faceoffs, if he fails to do that, of course, I will be less compliant with him, it's not hard to understand why, it has nothing to do with double standard.

It's not hard to understand why I called out Phillip after the last game. He is the only one with no goal and only two points in 12 games. Gallagher who was putrid at the start, since his first goal, has 4 points in 6 games, Lehkonen who is worse than Danault offensively has more points in fewer games and is just as good defensively.

Why it's so hard for Phillip to do something offensively, with all the time he's playing per night ?

 

[azcanuck]

...Danault is not going to be as effective defensively this Series because Vegas scores as a team, not just a couple of star forwards that we can stick Phil on like glue...that line needs to start producing offensively, period...

DAnault is no offensive juggernaut by any stretch but he created as much offense as any player on the team in game one, which isnt saying a lot.

Now is the time for his line to open up a little because of what you stated, no doubt. Because KK did squat in game one. Suzuki tried but really had no A-1 scoring chances outside of the PP.

 

[Archijerej]

And even under those specific conditions, that line scored 2 goals in the whole playoffs lol.

Yes, which is 50% of 5 on 5 goals scored since game 2 against the Jets.

Now is the time for his line to open up a little because of what you stated, no doubt. Because KK did squat in game one. Suzuki tried but really had no A-1 scoring chances outside of the PP.

Suzuki did not create much, but he did have a glorious chance at 5 on 5 during the first 10 minutes, when he pounced on a bad clearance by Fleury.

We were basically a two line team in game 1. That won't do against Vegas.

 

[Gravity]

Best case scenario is signing both KK and Danault to 2 year contracts worth a combined 7-8 mill. Gives KK 2 years to earn a long term contract (probably a 6 year deal to take him to 28) and it also gives Poehling 2 more years of development to take over Danaults eventual spot on the team.

Why on earth would Danault sign for 2 years? He's going to seize his opportunity to get paid.

 

[HuGo Burner Acc]

Why on earth would Danault sign for 2 years? He's going to seize his opportunity to get paid.

He's 28. You're absolutely right but in 2 years, the cap might be projected to go for the next year years (from the standpoint of then now now) and teams might be more willing to throw money less frugally. But your point is probably right. That's why I said best case scenario

 

[canucklover123]

He's 28. You're absolutely right but in 2 years, the cap might be projected to go for the next year years (from the standpoint of then now now) and teams might be more willing to throw money less frugally. But your point is probably right. That's why I said best case scenario

if he doesn’t get what he likes , he’ll probz pull a hall and do a year. I expect that to be a norm maybe this off season

 

[HuGo Burner Acc]

if he doesn’t get what he likes , he’ll probz pull a hall and do a year. I expect that to be a norm maybe this off season

Even that might be good for Habs long term. Throw a 1 year 6 mill contract at him. I just think Poehling needs another year of development before he assumes 3C duties. I thought 2 years was ideal because Danaults role right now will change as Suzuki and KK continue to develop closer to 23 years of age so when Poehling eventually replaces danault he won't actually be doing the same thing thankfully

 

[The Great Weal]

What a game by Phil. 61% on faceoffs and perfect defensive hockey.

 

[crosbyshow]

Phil danault the monster!!!!!!!!

Wgat a game tonight

 

[Skip Bayless]

What a f***ing game Phil.

 

[gillyguzzler]

Amazing effort by #24

 

[Dichow Stopper]

Give him 8 more years now!

 

[The Great Weal]

wE dOnT nEeD HiM aGaInSt VeGas