OT: Philadelphia Eagles (NFL): Is there a plan?

[Sniped]

http://new.livestream.com/accounts/8109350/events/2963279/videos/79890124

Thanks man.

 

[Chinatown88]

Huh

 

[Roo Mad Bro]

Oh lawd.

Beaten to it.

 

[YEM]

I've stepped off the Chipper bandwagon, I just don't get this

There's no point in crucifying Chip, who by the way knows a lot more about what he's doing than anybody here.

we'll see
the history of the NFL is littered with failed coaches and GMs who "knew more than" the fans and then failed miserably, demonstrating the opposite...

 

[OrangeAndBlackMetal]

Getting rid of sproles? How could they justify having 3 RBs with pressing needs still in the secondary and at WR?

 

[Fire Tortorella]

I've stepped off the Chipper bandwagon, I just don't get this


we'll see
the history of the NFL is littered with failed coaches and GMs who "knew more than" the fans and then failed miserably, demonstrating the opposite...

That's such a ridiculous statement. The NFL is littered with coaches who've failed? WHO WOULD HAVE GUESSED.

 

[Flyotes]

One thing few are talking about is Chip saying that Lurie gave him the power -- he didn't ask for it or it was "Lurie's decision". Does that mean that Lurie thinks less of Roseman than believed and Chip just let everyone know it on the sly?

Edit: Also, Chip said they would NEVER mortgage the future to move up in the draft like that (Mariota). He used the word Never. Interesting.

 

[TheSpectrum]

haha the end of that press conference was classic Chip owning the media with questions about why he doesn't talk

"Sounds like the problem is here is how my availability doesn't jive with your schedules"

classic

 

[TheSpectrum]

I've stepped off the Chipper bandwagon, I just don't get this


we'll see
the history of the NFL is littered with failed coaches and GMs who "knew more than" the fans and then failed miserably, demonstrating the opposite...

The history of the NFL is also littered with "arrogant" "know it all" coaches who have won in the NFL. As a matter of fact, the latest one to win was is a classic example of a coach doing it his way only.

The last 2 actually

 

[Flyotes]

The history of the NFL is also littered with "arrogant" "know it all" coaches who have won in the NFL. As a matter of fact, the latest one to win was is a classic example of a coach doing it his way only.

The last 2 actually

Pretty much. There are arguments on both sides. Last two SB winners have almost complete control over their organizations.

That's not to say that's the right way to do it, but it does lend evidence it works sometimes.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

[/B]

That's such a ridiculous statement. The NFL is littered with coaches who've failed? WHO WOULD HAVE GUESSED.

If something doesn't work it is because you are stupid. Every year there are 31 fan bases that know more than their coaches and GMs (or at the very least, I'd say there are 10-15). In every sport really. I mean, every single move every GM makes is scrutinized so much, and almost every move "fails" to a certain extent since only one team can win each year and only about half make the playoffs. Ergo, fans are right because almost all of them I would think would do different moves than their GMs in almost every situation (be it signing or trading different guys, signing guys to shorter or longer terms with lower cap hits, etc. to make room for different players). And fans are basing their opinions on hours and hours of studying tape and being intimately familiar with not only the sport itself, but with what else is going on with other teams during practices, games, half-times, etc. Meanwhile, coaches really don't have a solid basis for the moves they are making. Most of them just want to make a splash and get some facetime on ESPN.

 

[healthyscratch]

Has he been inaccurate or has he had nothing to work with? In about 20 fewer games, Nick Foles is 3% more accurate than Bradford. Nick Foles has had at different times DeSean Jackson, Jeremy Maclin, Brent Celek, Zach Ertz, LeSean McCoy and Jordan Mathews at his disposal (two #1 WRs, a #1 TE, and a pretty solid #2 TE, one of the best RBs in the league, and a solid slot WR), plus a very good OL for a good portion of his time here. Sam Bradford has had parts of seasons with Danny Amendola, Branding Gibson, Stephen Jackson, and Chris Givens. It is no guarantee, but I am willing to be a good amount of money, that if Sam Bradford was on the Eagles since day one, he would have better numbers...probably a lot better numbers. True, the argument could be made that good QBs don't need good weapons or whatever, but if you give a guy nothing to work with, chances are he's not going to put up good numbers.

Now he has Matthews, Huff and Coooooop! I hope Sproles is resting up, he may catch 150 passes this season.

 

[Fire Tortorella]

If something doesn't work it is because you are stupid. Every year there are 31 fan bases that know more than their coaches and GMs (or at the very least, I'd say there are 10-15). In every sport really. I mean, every single move every GM makes is scrutinized so much, and almost every move "fails" to a certain extent since only one team can win each year and only about half make the playoffs. Ergo, fans are right because almost all of them I would think would do different moves than their GMs in almost every situation (be it signing or trading different guys, signing guys to shorter or longer terms with lower cap hits, etc. to make room for different players). And fans are basing their opinions on hours and hours of studying tape and being intimately familiar with not only the sport itself, but with what else is going on with other teams during practices, games, half-times, etc. Meanwhile, coaches really don't have a solid basis for the moves they are making. Most of them just want to make a splash and get some facetime on ESPN.

Why do you always have to ruin your valid points with hyperbole.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Chip's changing the game. 2QB (if we want to call them that) 4RB and 0WR formations.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

Now he has Matthews, Huff and Coooooop! I hope Sproles is resting up, he may catch 150 passes this season.

Haha, well obviously that is an issue. Hopefully they still grab a WR in FA and the draft. I'd rather have Mathews, Huff, Cooper, Ertz, and Celek than what Bradford had, but it is still brutally bad.

Why do you always have to ruin your valid points with hyperbole.

I don't think it ruins the point, at least not in this case. I was just pointing out that most, if not all fans, really have very little knowledge of the game outside of what they did in high school and watching football on Sundays and listening to sports talk tv/radio. I could have just said that, but I chose to emphasize how silly it is by pretending like most fans spend all their time analyzing video with a keen eye for talent, while head coaches really don't know what they are doing. Sorry if that ruined it for you.

But seriously, fans love to criticize based on the fact that they saw every game of the season or have watched YouTube highlights or read blog posts or whatever. They never say that, they just say their opinions, but in reality, that is what they are using as the basis for their opinions. When they criticize a coach or GM, the things they are saying about them don't really hold a lot of weight. Even in the end if the fans are "right," they really aren't right. They are just guessing that something will happen, and as I pointed out earlier, most moves turn out to not have the impact fans or coaches wanted, so by saying something bad will happen, you are almost guaranteed to be right in most situations. That doesn't mean your line of thinking was correct, it means you guess right. If you win the lottery it doesn't mean you knew what the winning numbers would be, even if you chose them yourself. You guessed right.

I'm not a fan of the Bradford move. I sincerely do not understand it. I think it probably will not work out the way Chip wants it to. But I am basing that off what little information I have about Chip Kelly and about Sam Bradford. You can guarantee that Chip Kelly and all his staff spent a lot more time on this subject, and at the end of the day they might be wrong, but that doesn't mean that you or me or anyone was smarter than them. It means we guessed right.

 

[Stonehands77]

You can guarantee that Chip Kelly and all his staff spent a lot more time on this subject, and at the end of the day they might be wrong, but that doesn't mean that you or me or anyone was smarter than them. It means we guessed right.

I disagree with your premise here somewhat. I do NOT think it is true that just because people spend a lot of time on something means they are an expert and know more. I think as sports fans there are lots of examples where we can say "What the hell were they thinking?" We all knew Andrew Macdonald for the years/money he was signed for was a bad move, for example. There are head scratching draft picks every year, where people would say "Why the hell would you draft this guy?" and those fans are correct. Matt Millen had a job for years, and I think my mom might have done a better job then him despite all the time he put in.

So given that, I don't think it's that people "guess right". I think there are definitely times where fans have more insight then the professionals. Particularly when it comes to analytics, but in general professionals make bad moves all the time. To claim that fans have no right to say they "know more" is not accurate. In some cases, they DO know more.

 

[YEM]

it's sports you guys, not rocket surgery, one can absolutely thoughtfully analyze the games/talent and not be a pro, we read journalists who do so & posters who do so & do a good job doing it everyday...

sometimes the fans do know as much as the coaches based on just watching & paying attention, this is simple stuff here-look at this board, tons of posts here everyday about how bad berube sucks and how he should be doing this & that, etc.

I guess bradford is not good because I've watched bradford not be good for years now. Chipper is not and has not [yet] proven himself to be a good NFL talent evaluator-he might be, he might not be.

 

[Stonehands77]

it's sports you guys, not rocket surgery, one can absolutely thoughtfully analyze the games/talent and not be a pro, we read journalists who do so & posters who do so & do a good job doing it everyday...

sometimes the fans do know as much as the coaches based on just watching & paying attention, this is simple stuff here-look at this board, tons of posts here everyday about how bad berube sucks and how he should be doing this & that, etc.

I guess bradford is not good because I've watched bradford not be good for years now. Chipper is not and has not [yet] proven himself to be a good NFL talent evaluator-he might be, he might not be.

I think there's also a distinction to be made between evaluating talent and evaluating value. These concepts are related, but not the same. You can determine someone is able to play in the NFL, or produce in a system, but not understand their relative value compared to other players or the system as a whole.

You only have to look as far as Chip's admitting he wanted to draft a player 2 rounds ahead of where they did to see he did not understand draft value. That guy may be able to play, but maximizing the value of a draft pick means knowing where others value him and picking him in a place as low as possible, so that you maximize your chances to get other, equally or greater talented, players.

 

[TheSpectrum]

One thing few are talking about is Chip saying that Lurie gave him the power -- he didn't ask for it or it was "Lurie's decision". Does that mean that Lurie thinks less of Roseman than believed and Chip just let everyone know it on the sly?

Edit: Also, Chip said they would NEVER mortgage the future to move up in the draft like that (Mariota). He used the word Never. Interesting.

It is important to note he said never MORTGAGE THE FUTURE. I have to go back and listen but I am pretty sure he didn't say NEVER TRADE UP for Mariota.

Mortgage the future is subjective to the eye of the beholder. Our perception may differ from Chip's so if he trades say 4-5 picks + Bradford in his eyes he may not be mortgaging the future while we would think so.

Personally coming out of that press conference I think he feels very good about Bradford at QB and most definitely has plans to stick with him. But as we all know, the draft is a weird business and if Mariota starts to fall I believe he will be open to a move.

 

[Flyotes]

If Chip would split hairs and do as you say potentially and trade 4-5 picks plus Bradford for one guy isn't mortgaging the future then he lives on another planet....

but I could live with that.

 

[Jack Straw]

Watching Bradford's presser- he sure seems happy to be in Philly. Seems like one of the more intelligent pro athletes I've heard as well.

 

[Jack Straw]

Bradford trying to get Demarco Murray in Philly

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Bradford is pushing for Murray to come to Philly. Been in contact with him about coming here.

 

[Flyotes]

If Murray happens, sign the best 2 WRs available given the money left, draft another one.

 

[Halladay]

Not happy with the trade, but I have to live with it and really want it to work out. will be switching over to bradford avatar in the future, because he is what is keeping up from Sanchez .