Player Discussion Phil "The thrill", "Pizza man" Danault (Part 4) - The Final Edition

[Belial]

I don't mind Dvorak as Danault's replacement, but we still need a middle-6C, capable of 30-40 points.

Well KK was not really providing that so we'll see.

I think Evans has enough skill to put up 30 points.

But I still think they'll start the season with Perreault at center.

 

[Archijerej]

Well KK was not really providing that so we'll see.

That's one of the reasons we barely made the playoffs.

But I don't necessarily mean next season. I don't have much expectations. I meant more generally.

I think Evans has enough skill to put up 30 points.

Perhaps, but I wrote 30-40 points. We need a very solid #3C if we want to compete with the best teams in our division. I don't see that in Evans. We likely don't have a better option right now, but I see him more like a good #4C moving forward.

But I still think they'll start the season with Perreault at center.

I think that's a possibility, yes.

 

[Belial]

Perhaps, but I wrote 30-40 points. We need a very solid #3C if we want to compete with the best teams in our division. I don't see that in Evans. We likely don't have a better option right now, but I see him more like a good #4C moving forward.

30-40 points without any PP time is more like a #2 center, to be honest.

I think people overestimate real production that's going on in the league.

Depends on the system you're playing also...

If you roll 4 lines and your #1 center gets 60 points, don't you think it's kinda crazy to expect 40 points out of your #3 center?

 

[Archijerej]

30-40 points without any PP time is more like a #2 center, to be honest.

I think people overestimate real production that's going on in the league.

Depends on the system you're playing also...

If you roll 4 lines and your #1 center gets 60 points, don't you think it's kinda crazy to expect 40 points out of your #3 center?

I didn't necessarily mean even strength only.

I agree it has to be put in context. If your competitors have point per game stars as their #1C and you don't, then you have to compensate with depth. Take St. Louis, for example. They had O'Reilly - Schenn - Bozak down the middle during their cup run. The Islanders have Barzal - Nelson - Pageau and perhaps the best #4C in the league in Cizikas.

Tampa had Point - Cirelli - Gourde.

Boston had Bergeron - Krejci - Coyle.

 

[Belial]

I didn't necessarily mean even strength only.

I agree it has to be put in context. If your competitors have point per game stars as their #1C and you don't, then you have to compensate with depth. Take St. Louis, for example. They had O'Reilly - Schenn - Bozak down the middle during their cup run. The Islanders have Barzal - Nelson - Pageau and perhaps the best #4C in the league in Cizikas.

The big advantage in building a team with the roll 4 lines strategy is that you will never end up with players making 12M$/year.

When you draft a star and you feed him a crazy amount of ice time you're probably doing it wrong in the long game.

What I'm trying to say is that it's not as easy as it seems.

 

[sandviper]

Well KK was not really providing that so we'll see.

I think Evans has enough skill to put up 30 points.

But I still think they'll start the season with Perreault at center.

More likely Paquette. Perreault has been suffering from back issues for a few years and himself has cited this as to why he can’t play center. I’m sure he can fill in if the center on his line gets tossed or play a game here and there but I’d be surprised if he starts the season in the position, especially when you factor in he just hasn’t played the position much in the past few years period.

 

[Belial]

More likely Paquette. Perreault has been suffering from back issues for a few years and himself has cited this as to why he can’t play center. I’m sure he can fill in if the center on his line gets tossed or play a game here and there but I’d be surprised if he starts the season in the position, especially when you factor in he just hasn’t played the position much in the past few years period.

The reason why I and other posters are penciling Perreault at center is that he's not pushing any wingers out of the lineup but I definitely think he was signed to play and not to be the extra forward.

Paquette will be the extra forward.

 

[morgan_mtl]

What I was wondering was what made Danualt such a good defensive centerman and could younger centers like Evans or Poehling study tape on Danault to try and mirror his defensive play?

 

[Archijerej]

What I was wondering was what made Danualt such a good defensive centerman and could younger centers like Evans or Poehling study tape on Danault to try and mirror his defensive play?

Hockey sense, skating, work rate, conditioning and excellent board play.

Also, a lot of his "defending" came from the ability to facilitate transition up the ice and keep the puck in the ozone. This requires not only the ability to support the play all over the ice, but also solid puck skills.

In short, it's easier said than done.

Poehling is probably the closest match in terms of physical abilities, although his puck skills might be lacking.

Evans is smart, but not quite as physically gifted. He also has not demonstrated the kind of puck skills Danault has.

 

[417]

30-40 points without any PP time is more like a #2 center, to be honest.

I think people overestimate real production that's going on in the league.

Depends on the system you're playing also...

If you roll 4 lines and your #1 center gets 60 points, don't you think it's kinda crazy to expect 40 points out of your #3 center?

Yet you shit on KK for being a 30pt player.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

please end it once for all.

 

[Doc McKenna]

30-40 points without any PP time is more like a #2 center, to be honest.

I think people overestimate real production that's going on in the league.

Depends on the system you're playing also...

If you roll 4 lines and your #1 center gets 60 points, don't you think it's kinda crazy to expect 40 points out of your #3 center?

So is this your version of a snake eating its own tail. Remember KK, or chuck, or eller?

 

[sandviper]

The reason why I and other posters are penciling Perreault at center is that he's not pushing any wingers out of the lineup but I definitely think he was signed to play and not to be the extra forward.

Paquette will be the extra forward.

Then you and the other posters are wrong if any of you think Perreault will be a full time center. However, we can pretend Perreault didn’t say HIMSELF that the role would be difficult given his injury history.

 

[Paddyjack]

Yet you shit on KK for being a 30pt player.

Maybe it had to do with the fact he was a 3 OA

 

[canucklover123]

So is this your version of a snake eating its own tail. Remember KK, or chuck, or eller?

glad to see you contributing doc

 

[417]

Maybe it had to do with the fact he was a 3 OA

Doesn't matter if he was 1st overall...

He played a 3rd line, even sometimes a 4th line role and he produced 3rd line numbers.

Expecting more, within that role, simply because he was drafted 3rd overall is complete madness.

 

[tazsub3]

we very deep at forward, so 3rd line /4th line centers is not a worry for me, i think someone will emerge with the wingers we have. In fact i am very very high on both evans and RP.

ust the fact that evans will stay on his skates vs KK , will make a world of difference lol

 

[Belial]

Yet you shit on KK for being a 30pt player.

30 points with plenty of PP time and soft minutes is not the same as getting 30 ES points and being used in a shutdown role.

So is this your version of a snake eating its own tail. Remember KK, or chuck, or eller?

Context.

Then you and the other posters are wrong if any of you think Perreault will be a full time center. However, we can pretend Perreault didn’t say HIMSELF that the role would be difficult given his injury history.

He had back problems 8 years ago!

He said he's ready to play center if Dom wants him at center.

 

[417]

30 points with plenty of PP time and soft minutes is not the same as getting 30 ES points and being used in a shutdown role.

Plenty of PP time?

Firstly, the Habs PP sucked

Secondly, he was 8th amongst Habs forwards in PP TOI/g.

Why would you expect one of the least used forwards on the PP, to be productive on a bottom 1/3 PP unit???

Once more...you're expecting one of the least used forwards to put up 1st line production.

The problem wasn't Kotkaniemi...its fans who have have unfair and unrealistic expectations.

 

[Belial]

Plenty of PP time?

Firstly, the Habs PP sucked

Secondly, he was 8th amongst Habs forwards in PP TOI/g.

Why would you expect one of the least used forwards on the PP, to be productive on a bottom 1/3 PP unit???

Once more...you're expecting one of the least used forwards to put up 1st line production.

The problem wasn't Kotkaniemi...its fans who have have unfair and unrealistic expectations.

Come on man, stop being disingenuous...

KK was getting 1:54 PP TOI/GP while Toffoli who led the team was at 2:25 PP TOI/GP.

Yes, he was getting plenty of PP.

 

[417]

Come on man, stop being disingenuous...

KK was getting 1:54 PP TOI/GP while Toffoli who led the team was at 2:25 PP TOI/GP.

Yes, he was getting plenty of PP.

He the last 30 secs on the 2nd PP unit Ona terrible PP...stop.

You're over here acting like the PP was built around him and I'M being disingenuous?

Lol...you're right, I'll try to be more fair and act like the 8th most used forward on the PP was supposed to led the lead league in PP scoring then.

 

[TannedBum]

Come on man, stop being disingenuous...

KK was getting 1:54 PP TOI/GP while Toffoli who led the team was at 2:25 PP TOI/GP.

Yes, he was getting plenty of PP.

But but.. He was probably banged up whole season and his PP unit was bad.

 

[417]

We can use defensive zone faceoffs to explaine to excuse Danault's lack of production ...

But God forbid we do the same and provide context, for others lol

 

[Belial]

He the last 30 secs on the 2nd PP unit Ona terrible PP...stop

You can keep arguing against numbers all day long that will not change the fact that he was the center piloting the second unit and in total minutes played on the PP last season he finished third only behind Toffoli and Suzuki.

 

[417]

You can keep arguing against numbers all day long that will not change the fact that he was the center piloting the second unit and in total minutes played on the PP last season he finished third only behind Toffoli and Suzuki.

Context, if it matters for Danault, it should matter for Kotkaniemi too, no?

Yet you seem to only want to apply context when it's convenient to whatever you're arguing.

But again...I'M disingenuous.

Let's remember, I'm not even debating that Kotmaniemi is a good PP player, I just found it funny how in your original post you knocked someone for expecting a 3rd line C to get 40pts...

Yet you constantly shit on KK for being a 30pt player.

But again...I'M disingenuous.

Lol