Phil Kessel

[Bullseye]

Time for Phil to evolve if he can into a LEADER. No question he will score and lead any team he is on in goals scored but I think to get to the next level the Leafs need Phil to be a role model for his teammates - behave like a hard-working veteran rather than a privileged veteran.

Max Pacoriety scored the same a s Phil - does he get special treatment now?

 

[theIceWookie]

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...1000&teamid=0&type=goals&sort=A20&sortdir=ASC

Out of 365 forwards who have have played 1000+ minutes over the past three years, Kessel is 348th for GA20 (goals against per 20 minutes of ES icetime), Bozak is 358th, Lupul is 364th, JVR is 342nd. Keep in mind that these guys DONT play shutdown minutes against top scoring lines.

So sure, he's among the most productive offensively, but he and the rest of our forwards are also among the very very worst in the league for the # of goals against they're on the ice for.

The point of hockey is to score MORE goals than the opposition, not just to score a lot of goals.

It's pretty misleading to just say "over the past three years". Like really misleading.

You shorten it to two years and he's 49th, behind Tavares at 48th and ahead of Backstrom at 50. Sure makes it look like he's significantly improved don't it? Oh hallowed defensive stud Ryan O'Reilly is only 54.

Suddenly Kessel is no longer "very very worst" in the league for goals against when they are on the ice. Bozak and JVR are a lot higher than him (and neither are top 20).

But continue to ignore that, and expand the sample size to fit into your agenda to try and discredit Kessel. Is he great defensively? Nope, but he sure isn't among the league worst. He's vastly improved the last two seasons.

I don't understand how many times these numbers will have to be posted before people actually start to understand that calling him "awful defensively" is wrong. He's better than Tavares, Duchene, O'Reilly, Ovechkin, Spezza, Hall, Evander Kane, Skinner, Eric Staal, Eberle, RNH, Stamkos, a host of other less offensively studly players, and oh yeah HE'S BEEN BETTER DEFENSIVELY THE PAST TWO SEASONS THAN STAMKOS/OVECHKIN/TAVARES.

I wonder what the anti-Kessel crowd is gonna do now.He has a higher goals for percentage than Stamkos.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I wonder what the anti-Kessel crowd is gonna do now.He has a higher goals for percentage than Stamkos.

probably just say he'd totally be better if he wasn't fat.

 

[613Leafer]

It's pretty misleading to just say "over the past three years". Like really misleading.
.

The person I was responding to was talking about Kessel's offence over the past 3 seasons. It wasnt an arbitrary choice on my part.

It's misleading to imply that I was being misleading by not quoting the person I had been responding to

 

[SprDaVE]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...ssel-isnt-why-the-leafs-lose/article20683403/

Mirtle: Defiant or not, Kessel isn’t why the Leafs lose

He even willingly served up a provocative nugget for down the road, revealing he only skated “10 times maybe” all off-season – a quote that will surely be served back up by his critics whenever his next goal drought is.

Missed in all of it, however, is the fact that of the 64 players at camp, Kessel might well be 64th on the list of organizational problems. He’s one of only two NHL players (along with Alex Ovechkin) who have scored at a 32-goal (or better) pace the past six seasons, displaying remarkable consistency despite often poor linemates and even poorer decision-making from those above him.

 

[theIceWookie]

Time for Phil to evolve if he can into a LEADER. No question he will score and lead any team he is on in goals scored but I think to get to the next level the Leafs need Phil to be a role model for his teammates - behave like a hard-working veteran rather than a privileged veteran.

Max Pacoriety scored the same a s Phil - does he get special treatment now?

What special treatment does Phil get?

 

[theIceWookie]

The person I was responding to was talking about Kessel's offence over the past 3 seasons. It wasnt an arbitrary choice on my part.

It's misleading to imply that I was being misleading by not quoting the person I had been responding to

My mistake Only saw your post, didn't read the one you quoted haha

I was wondering why you were posting something like that, you're usually a much more level headed poster.

Sorry to jump on you, I'm just getting a little annoyed with all the Kessel nonsense lately.

 

[Bullseye]

Ask Phil. He says he gets special treatment. That he gets away with stuff his teammates don't. I'm not a Phil basher - the guy is a machine we need him. But we now need him to get things righted here and saying "I get away with things no-one else does" is not my idea of leadership. Is it yours?

 

[ULF_55]

Time for Phil to evolve if he can into a LEADER. No question he will score and lead any team he is on in goals scored but I think to get to the next level the Leafs need Phil to be a role model for his teammates - behave like a hard-working veteran rather than a privileged veteran.

Max Pacoriety scored the same a s Phil - does he get special treatment now?

If a little guy like Dave Keon can play on the PK, and be the Leafs leading scorer then I see no reason why a guy like Kessel can't be used in that role.

Phil has untapped potential, and I'm sure he's itching to improve his overall game each and every year.

 

[Territory]

Ask Phil. He says he gets special treatment. That he gets away with stuff his teammates don't. I'm not a Phil basher - the guy is a machine we need him. But we now need him to get things righted here and saying "I get away with things no-one else does" is not my idea of leadership. Is it yours?

It's honesty. Of course the star player can get away with things no one else does. Nobody else can do what he can do.

I'm sure when Stamkos signs with the Leafs he will get away with stuff too.

 

[Bullseye]

It's honesty. Of course the star player can get away with things no one else does. Nobody else can do what he can do.

I'm sure when Stamkos signs with the Leafs he will get away with stuff too.

Yes of course but leadership is about being that guy everyone looks to - Stamkos for example is a fitness machine as well as a goal scorer - I can't imagine him ever saying "I get special treatment because I score the most goals".

Leadership. Leadership. Leadership. We need it badly.

 

[theIceWookie]

Ask Phil. He says he gets special treatment. That he gets away with stuff his teammates don't. I'm not a Phil basher - the guy is a machine we need him. But we now need him to get things righted here and saying "I get away with things no-one else does" is not my idea of leadership. Is it yours?

The very fact that he's saying that speaks volumes. That's called accountability. And he's doing it.

The guy was the onyl player on our team to say "we screwed up, I should have been better". That's accountability. Leadership.

And of course he gets special treatment. You don't think Toews does? Or Stammer? Or any other star player in the league? Many many coaches have said that they have no problem with that for star players. Many of them leaders.

 

[MajorityRules*]

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...1000&teamid=0&type=goals&sort=A20&sortdir=ASC

Out of 365 forwards who have have played 1000+ minutes over the past three years, Kessel is 348th for GA20 (goals against per 20 minutes of ES icetime), Bozak is 358th, Lupul is 364th, JVR is 342nd. Keep in mind that these guys DONT play shutdown minutes against top scoring lines.
So sure, he's among the most productive offensively, but he and the rest of our forwards are also among the very very worst in the league for the # of goals against they're on the ice for.

The point of hockey is to score MORE goals than the opposition, not just to score a lot of goals.

I totally agree with you that they don't play a shutdown role however didn't Carlyle consistently match the Leafs top line against the opponents top line which would mean they were going up against the most difficult competition.

 

[Bullseye]

The very fact that he's saying that speaks volumes. That's called accountability. And he's doing it.

The guy was the onyl player on our team to say "we screwed up, I should have been better". That's accountability. Leadership.

The whole team is saying we screwed up - everyone. I love Phil - I'm not a hater but he has responsibility now to be the guy in the organization that sets the tone for his teammates.

 

[FriedEgg]

I can't believe these guys (uncle randy and Phillip) actually admit in public the special treatment. What an absolute gong show this organization is. Day 1 of training camp. Unbelievable.

 

[Bullseye]

It's honesty. Of course the star player can get away with things no one else does. Nobody else can do what he can do.

I'm sure when Stamkos signs with the Leafs he will get away with stuff too.

If Stamkos signs here he will challenge anyone to outwork him on the ice and in the weight room. Stamkos bought into the Gary Roberts school of hockey - be a beast in every way and you will make your teammates accountable to you as a leader.

 

[Morbo]

Max Pacoriety scored the same a s Phil - does he get special treatment now?

When did Pacioretty finish top 6 in scoring?

 

[TLeafsFan]

Kessel leads with his "gut".

 

[gabeliscious]

I can't believe these guys (uncle randy and Phillip) actually admit in public the special treatment. What an absolute gong show this organization is. Day 1 of training camp. Unbelievable.

no need to worry. by this time next year there will be a bigger diva working with the leafs. im pretty sure babcock wont have a problem getting phil to dance for him.

 

[Bullseye]

When did Pacioretty finish top 6 in scoring?

Don't muddy the waters - I said goals - they were even. The point here is special treatment - what is your opinion about that?

 

[MajorityRules*]

Don't muddy the waters - I said goals - they were even. The point here is special treatment - what is your opinion about that?

It happens everywhere, whether it be jobs, schools or just life in general. Even in the military where i am I see it on a regular basis and I'm one of the supervisors. Individuals are treated different. Anyone who claims it doesn't happen are either lying or ignorant to the fact.

 

[Hounsy]

Don't muddy the waters - I said goals - they were even. The point here is special treatment - what is your opinion about that?

Depends really what is meant by special treatment. I took it to mean he is allowed to take more chances offensively which I think guys like him and patches etc. are much better equipped to convert than middle of the roster guys. Based on the outrage I am reading most suspect the comment was about work ethic stuff. Not really going to get into which one it was as it could be either and no one here has that info.

 

[Bullseye]

Depends really what is meant by special treatment. I took it to mean he is allowed to take more chances offensively which I think guys like him and patches etc. are much better equipped to convert than middle of the roster guys. Based on the outrage I am reading most suspect the comment was about work ethic stuff. Not really going to get into which one it was as it could be either and no one here has that info.

Ya I think that's fair - there was offensive liberties intended there but also defensive responsibility too.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Time for Phil to evolve if he can into a LEADER. No question he will score and lead any team he is on in goals scored but I think to get to the next level the Leafs need Phil to be a role model for his teammates - behave like a hard-working veteran rather than a privileged veteran.

I'll be shocked if this happens.

I admit, not a fan of Kessel, at all.

 

[jmart21]

I can't believe these guys (uncle randy and Phillip) actually admit in public the special treatment. What an absolute gong show this organization is. Day 1 of training camp. Unbelievable.

That's not what happened at all. Yet again, Feschuk completely taking a quote out of context to make a point.

Carlyle said that in the NHL you have to give star players more rope so they can apply their "art to the canvas". This happens all over the league...not doing this is what so many people refer to as "coaching the talent out of them".

Feschuk then turned around and made it seem like RC gives Phil special treatment because he's some cancerous dressing room exception. Yet again complete propaganda from the Toronto media.