Phil Kessel

[Duke Silver]

No-one wants to run our leading scorer outa town - but I guess suggesting an all round game to go with his impressive scoring is unfair.

Maintaining his impressive scoring and becoming a Selke candidate is unfair to ask of him, yes, because he would be the best hockey player in the world.

What is Phil Kessel paid to do? Put up goals and points. What has he done? Put up goals and points.

Expecting him to be something he's not whilst continuing to be what he is (a top-10 point producer in the entire NHL) is only setting yourself up for disappointment and setting him up for failure.

Why don't we focus on players who don't make a overly positive impact in either zone?

Jesus, you would think that his point production for us would grant him a little leeway with fans, but no. His defensive game isn't even poor, in fact it has improved by leaps and bounds over the last 5 years.

Phil Kessel is not the problem. He's one of the few solutions.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I just wonder, regardless of the offensive output Phill puts forth, how does Shanahan perceive this.. Remember his stance was how people come to camp will indicate how he sees people being Leafs.

Phil's comments, regardless if it's lololol just kidding you, may not sit well with him.

 

[Bullseye]

What Shanny's not here to continue the love-in?

 

[pcruz]

I just wonder, regardless of the offensive output Phill puts forth, how does Shanahan perceive this.. Remember his stance was how people come to camp will indicate how he sees people being Leafs.

Phil's comments, regardless if it's lololol just kidding you, may not sit well with him.

Which is ludicrous. How many people continue to do their jobs during their vacations?
How many teachers decide that their summer vacation is the right time to teach some more voluntarily?
How many truck drivers decide that their vacations are the right time to go on cross-country road trips with their family?
Or scientists, how many of them continue to do their research while vacationing?

All anyone should ask is that the players play to their full potential during the season - starting from training camp all the way through the playoffs.

What they do in the off season should be absolutely nobody's concern as long as they don't get tangled up in illegal activities that could have repercussions during the season.

 

[Bullseye]

I think the message Shanny wanted to send to the team that has collapsed three times in the past three years is come to camp like you are here to prove something and help change the culture on this team.

And then there's Phil - God bless him. We know he's gonna score 35-40 goals again but an example setter he is not. The idiosyncrasies are part of what I love about Phil but it's not the best leadership stance he coulda arrived with.

 

[Bluelines]

Which is ludicrous. How many people continue to do their jobs during their vacations?

Most pro athletes do significant off ice training during the of season. I forget who said it but a coach a few years back said that most hockey players come to the training camp in such good shape he didn't think training camp was a necessity anymore. Anyone remember back in the days whn players use to smoke between periods in the locker room? Looking at you Guy LaFleur

Just think what a beast Phil would be if he trained like Crosby does in the off season.

I have no issues with Phil, besides his indifference on the back check, he does what he is paid to do but it would be nice if a little more off ice effort was made.

 

[silentbob37*]

Maintaining his impressive scoring and becoming a Selke candidate is unfair to ask of him, yes, because he would be the best hockey player in the world.

What is Phil Kessel paid to do? Put up goals and points. What has he done? Put up goals and points.

Expecting him to be something he's not whilst continuing to be what he is (a top-10 point producer in the entire NHL) is only setting yourself up for disappointment and setting him up for failure.

Why don't we focus on players who don't make a overly positive impact in either zone?

Jesus, you would think that his point production for us would grant him a little leeway with fans, but no. His defensive game isn't even poor, in fact it has improved by leaps and bounds over the last 5 years.

Phil Kessel is not the problem. He's one of the few solutions.

I agree his defense has gotten better, but lets call a spade a spade. Its not "good". His HARD last year was -40.

Was it unfair of Bowman to ask Yzerman to become a better defensive player? I think its only unfair to ask Kessel to become better if you think he isn't capable of it. If its something he is able to do, then its a fair criticism.

And Kessel isn't a solution. The problem is Kessel (and others) being expected to be something they aren't. The solution is a franchise center the Leafs don't currently have. The solution is a #1 D-man the Leafs don't currently have (maybe, hopefully Rielly?)

 

[Muston Atthews]

 

[hockeywiz542]

Hey guys,

According to Michael Grange of Rogers Sportsnet, a person in the Leafs’ brain trust said that "Phil’s an amazing talent, but he hates authority."

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/toronto-maple-leafs-give-phil-kessel-leeway-but-at-what-cost/

It goes round and round until it gets easy to forget the Leafs finished 3-13-0 and sank from ninth in the NHL to 23rd in the space of a month and are returning a core of players — Kessel, Dion Phaneuf, David Clarkson, Tyler Bozak and Joffery Lupul — that many in the hockey world feel are simply not good enough to change the club’s trajectory.

That was all brought into sudden and sharp relief by a Toronto Star story by Dave Feschuk that pulled the curtain back on the challenges the Leafs and Carlyle face.

It featured a trio of minor hockey coaches who attended a clinic put on by the Ontario Hockey Federation back in August, where new Leafs assistant Steve Spott spoke revealingly about the realities of making a difference with the team.

He told a story about getting Kessel’s input on a new breakout strategy — no small matter given the Leafs spent more time in their own end than almost any other team in the league — and the superstar winger basically said, "Nope, not doing it."

Spott went on to say — tongue-in-cheek — that Kessel hates Randy Carlyle and coaches generally.

"He hates me and he doesn’t even know me yet," jokes Spott, who earned his NHL promotion for his work with the AHL’s Toronto Marlies a year ago after a long career with the Kitchener Rangers of the OHL.

I can’t speak for the sources and what they heard — and it says volumes about how small the world of elite hockey is in Canada that none of them wanted to be quoted by name — but I can confirm that the gist of what Spott was quoted as saying rings true.

As one person in the Leafs’ brain trust put it to me: "Phil’s an amazing talent, but he hates authority."

The Leafs first on-ice activity at training camp will come Friday and will involve an on-ice version of the ‘beep’ test, where the participants basically skate lengths of the ice until they can’t keep up with the metronome-like beeps, which come at increasing frequency. It’s not really a test of hockey ability, but a test of how hard you trained in the summer and how important it is to you to make a first impression.

The expectation internally on the Leafs is that Kessel will be the first to tap out; let the guys battling for their careers skate until they vomit.

It’s another case of Phil being Phil. The theory is doing well on a beep test or buying in on a specific proposal for a breakout won’t matter in about three weeks time as Kessel starts to get down to the serious business of scoring goals.

 

[Muston Atthews]

Hey guys,

According to Michael Grange of Rogers Sportsnet, a person in the Leafs’ brain trust said that "Phil’s an amazing talent, but he hates authority."

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/toronto-maple-leafs-give-phil-kessel-leeway-but-at-what-cost/

"We talkin about beep tests"

 

[silentbob37*]

Hey guys,

According to Michael Grange of Rogers Sportsnet, a person in the Leafs’ brain trust said that "Phil’s an amazing talent, but he hates authority."

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/toronto-maple-leafs-give-phil-kessel-leeway-but-at-what-cost/

I don't think Kessel's off-season training (or lack their of) is a big deal as long as he can be the explosive, agile, effective skater and offensive threat he is expected to be. If he can do that with less training then other guys, more power to him. I have a mild fear of him regressing earlier then we hope if he doesn't increase the training as he gets older but that hasn't happened yet.

However I hope the beep test thing isn't true. Sure Kessel doesn't have to do well in the beep test to earn his job or anything but a teams best player giving it his all in that situation when he doesn't have too would send a good message to the rest of the players.

 

[The Apologist]

Maintaining his impressive scoring and becoming a Selke candidate is unfair to ask of him, yes, because he would be the best hockey player in the world.

What is Phil Kessel paid to do? Put up goals and points. What has he done? Put up goals and points.

Expecting him to be something he's not whilst continuing to be what he is (a top-10 point producer in the entire NHL) is only setting yourself up for disappointment and setting him up for failure.

Why don't we focus on players who don't make a overly positive impact in either zone?

Jesus, you would think that his point production for us would grant him a little leeway with fans, but no. His defensive game isn't even poor, in fact it has improved by leaps and bounds over the last 5 years.

Phil Kessel is not the problem. He's one of the few solutions.

No no, he's got a point. You know what bugs me? I know Bergeron is a Selke forward and all, but why the hell can't he be a ppg Selke forward? Is that asking too much of him?

 

[The Apologist]

I agree his defense has gotten better, but lets call a spade a spade. Its not "good". His HARD last year was -40.

Was it unfair of Bowman to ask Yzerman to become a better defensive player? I think its only unfair to ask Kessel to become better if you think he isn't capable of it. If its something he is able to do, then its a fair criticism.

And Kessel isn't a solution. The problem is Kessel (and others) being expected to be something they aren't. The solution is a franchise center the Leafs don't currently have. The solution is a #1 D-man the Leafs don't currently have (maybe, hopefully Rielly?)

Who's our Fedorov? And how old was Yzerman when he became 'better'?

 

[silentbob37*]

No no, he's got a point. You know what bugs me? I know Bergeron is a Selke forward and all, but why the hell can't he be a ppg Selke forward? Is that asking too much of him?

Elite offensive ability isn't something that can be taught as easy good defensive play and positioning.

If Yzerman, one of the most dynamic offensive players of his day can commit to defense and become a Selke winning forward is there any reason Kessel can't? Is Kessel not as good or talented or smart or hard working as Yzerman was?

That being said I don't think Kessel has to do that to be an good, effective player. As I said already I think the issue is Kessel should really be your 2nd or 3rd best player, not your #1. But why say it wouldn't improve his game and the team or its not fair to ask of him?

 

[Bullseye]

No no, he's got a point. You know what bugs me? I know Bergeron is a Selke forward and all, but why the hell can't he be a ppg Selke forward? Is that asking too much of him?

You guys are right - that was unfair. I think we all need to let Phil just be Phil and enjoy the scoring he provides. If he finds it within himself to develop other areas of his game he will do so as his schedule allows. Being a super fit hockey player can be over rated I mean - he has played almost full seasons every year since he's gotten here from Boston and I know Bruins fans like to jeer him but they didn't have much chance to when the Leafs dominated them 2 years ago. The last thing we want to do is create an uncomfortable environment for him and sour his Toronto experience so that he wants a trade outa town. BACK OFF PEOPLE.

 

[BondraTime]

Elite offensive ability isn't something that can be taught as easy good defensive play and positioning.

If Yzerman, one of the most dynamic offensive players of his day can commit to defense and become a Selke winning forward is there any reason Kessel can't? Is Kessel not as good or talented or smart or hard working as Yzerman was?

That being said I don't think Kessel has to do that to be an good, effective player. As I said already I think the issue is Kessel should really be your 2nd or 3rd best player, not your #1. But why say it wouldn't improve his game and the team or its not fair to ask of him?

Are you serious? No, he certainly isn't

 

[hockeystick89]

You guys are right - that was unfair. I think we all need to let Phil just be Phil and enjoy the scoring he provides. If he finds it within himself to develop other areas of his game he will do so as his schedule allows. Being a super fit hockey player can be over rated I mean - he has played almost full seasons every year since he's gotten here from Boston and I know Bruins fans like to jeer him but they didn't have much chance to when the Leafs dominated them 2 years ago. The last thing we want to do is create an uncomfortable environment for him and sour his Toronto experience so that he wants a trade outa town. BACK OFF PEOPLE.

LOL this a professional sports team, not elementary school. We shouldn't ask Phil to show up to camp in shape or evolve as a player lest we make him feel uncomfortable? That is pathetic, just pathetic.

Gary Roberts last week actually addressed this point last week on Leafs Lunch. He didn't refer to Phil specifically but he pointed ut that a lot of super talented players can get by in their early to mid twenties on raw skill before their game starts to decay.

 

[topched]

Elite offensive ability isn't something that can be taught as easy good defensive play and positioning.

If Yzerman, one of the most dynamic offensive players of his day can commit to defense and become a Selke winning forward is there any reason Kessel can't? Is Kessel not as good or talented or smart or hard working as Yzerman was?

That being said I don't think Kessel has to do that to be an good, effective player. As I said already I think the issue is Kessel should really be your 2nd or 3rd best player, not your #1. But why say it wouldn't improve his game and the team or its not fair to ask of him?

This is just ignorance IMO

If Selke Level defence were as simple as working hard everyone would do it.

Kessel isn't as talented as Yzerman, who was a first ballot hofer, as smart and skilled as they come.

Phil just isn't that. He works hard enough to play passable defense and provide elite level scoring. He is what he is, and we should enjoy it. I'd love if he was a complete player, but at this point in his career that's probably not going to develop, and that's fine.

 

[7even]

Phil Kessel Not A Robot, Outrage Ensues

 

[Diatomic]

Kessel should look as to hiring his sister Amanda as a personal trainer.

 

[silentbob37*]

This is just ignorance IMO

If Selke Level defence were as simple as working hard everyone would do it.

Kessel isn't as talented as Yzerman, who was a first ballot hofer, as smart and skilled as they come.

Phil just isn't that. He works hard enough to play passable defense and provide elite level scoring. He is what he is, and we should enjoy it. I'd love if he was a complete player, but at this point in his career that's probably not going to develop, and that's fine.

I didn't say Selke level defense is just working hard, I said good defensive play and positioning is something that can be taught and while elite offensive skill isn't.

In the late 80's and early 90's Yzerman "wasn't that" either. He was a dynamic, elite scorer and he didn't start really developing his defensive game until he was in his late 20's. I think some would argue he was a first ballot hall of famer because he worked on his defensive game.

I agree with you Kessel doesn't have to become a great two-way player to be a valuable, effective player & I don't think its likely that he'll make that kind of transformation. But I disagree with you (and Pilgore88) about him not having the talent to do so if he wanted to and you can't argue that he'd be less effective with a more complete game.

 

[KPower]

I can't blame free agents for not wanting to play in Toronto.

Only washed up local boys want to play here.

Can't wait for Stamkos to play here in 2025.

 

[Durrr]

This thread is a pretty good example of why players don't want to come to Toronto. The media should be focusing on how this coaching staff/team will change it's game plan from last year, and instead we have to hear about a bunch of mouth breathers call Phil a "bad character".

Seriously guys, I'd be more worried about Carlyle's system sucking out loud again, or player like Franson being able to actually play his position then the best player on the team talking about how he needs a break from hockey in the summer.

 

[Trapper]

LOL this a professional sports team, not elementary school. We shouldn't ask Phil to show up to camp in shape or evolve as a player lest we make him feel uncomfortable? That is pathetic, just pathetic.

Gary Roberts last week actually addressed this point last week on Leafs Lunch. He didn't refer to Phil specifically but he pointed ut that a lot of super talented players can get by in their early to mid twenties on raw skill before their game starts to decay.

The Maple Leafs have committed 8 million/year for 8 years. Doesn't anyone in that situation have an obligation to stay in peak condition? If he declines at 31 because he doesn't take care of himself what happens? The day Kessel loses his speed is the end for him. I'm sure some day he will score 40 goals and everyone will be just overjoyed here. Are we even making the playoffs anymore? When you have zero team success the only thing left to cheer for is individual success.

 

[Duke Silver]

You guys are right - that was unfair. I think we all need to let Phil just be Phil and enjoy the scoring he provides. If he finds it within himself to develop other areas of his game he will do so as his schedule allows. Being a super fit hockey player can be over rated I mean - he has played almost full seasons every year since he's gotten here from Boston and I know Bruins fans like to jeer him but they didn't have much chance to when the Leafs dominated them 2 years ago. The last thing we want to do is create an uncomfortable environment for him and sour his Toronto experience so that he wants a trade outa town. BACK OFF PEOPLE.

If only Phil Kessel was in shape, he'd have 100 points and a Selke nod!

You know what, we should trade him for Ryan O'Reilly. It's only a 14-point downturn but dat defense tho'.

When Kessel puts in a 60-point season or drops out of the top-15 in scoring then you guys can crank up the heat on him. But while he's still one of the elite scorers in this league... FOCUS ELSEWHERE PEOPLE.