Phil Kessel

[FlareKnight]

Kessel just needs to keep doing what he's been doing, being one of the most consistent offensive weapons in the league. His defensive game is never going to win a Selke, but he has gotten better in that respect over the years.

One those odd times I'm with Mirtle. This team has issues if they want to win, but their top player isn't that issue.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

Chip Alexander ‏@ice_chip 27s
EStaal; "I don't need to love my coach to perform and win." Said it's all about winning, getting job done. <- kessel would be crucified here if he said that.

I can't wait for this season to start.

 

[RLF]

The interesting thing I get out of Phil admitting and Carlyle confirming that Phil gets away with things that other players probably wouldn't...is the whole -Carlyle wants Kessel to play a style he is not suited for -doesn't seem to have much weight anymore.

 

[silentbob37*]

In the last 3 seasons, only one player has more points then Phil the Thrill, he may be chubby but he is also one of the fastest players on skates not to mention he produces chemistry with whoever he plays with.

This is true, but he played 46 more games then Malkin. 6 more then St Louis. 8 more then Ovechkin. 74 more then Crosby. 45 more then Stamkos. 23 more then Tavares. 9 more then Getzlaf. 31 more then Hall etc...He isn't 2nd in Point Per Game over the last 3 seasons, though is durability/luck isn't nothing either.

 

[Duke Silver]

This is true, but he played 46 more games then Malkin. 6 more then St Louis. 8 more then Ovechkin. 74 more then Crosby. 45 more then Stamkos. 23 more then Tavares. 9 more then Getzlaf. 31 more then Hall etc...He isn't 2nd in Point Per Game over the last 3 seasons, though is durability/luck isn't nothing either.

So he's tied for 6th in points-per-game over that timespan, in that case.

Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, Giroux, Tavares, Kessel/Hall.

Aren't we splitting hairs a little here?

 

[silentbob37*]

Kessel just needs to keep doing what he's been doing, being one of the most consistent offensive weapons in the league. His defensive game is never going to win a Selke, but he has gotten better in that respect over the years.

One those odd times I'm with Mirtle. This team has issues if they want to win, but their top player isn't that issue.

Kind of. I don't think there are many players on the Leafs who are issues or problems, its more what they don't have that they are the issues.

Mirtle said on the Dangle podcast a couple weeks ago the Leafs play some of their guys 1-2 spots higher then they should be played. His example was Phaneuf, they play Phaneuf as if he was Pronger (#1 in all situations, 23+ minutes a night etc...) but he isn't Pronger and shouldn't be played that way. I think the same thing applies to Kessel.

In my mind Kessel is Lanny MacDonald. Kessel isn't a "problem", the problem is we don't have a Sittler and Salming a head of him in the depth chart.

 

[achtungbaby]

Kessel just needs to keep doing what he's been doing, being one of the most consistent offensive weapons in the league. His defensive game is never going to win a Selke, but he has gotten better in that respect over the years.

One those odd times I'm with Mirtle. This team has issues if they want to win, but their top player isn't that issue.

He's been doing exactly that and it hasn't helped. I agree he's not the problem but if we're going to improve one of two things will have to happen (or both): Kessel will have to get better defensively like Stevie Y, or the team will have to get better around him.

Kessel is wasted on a bad team like this. Our management has been woefully inept over the years.

 

[SprDaVE]

Chip Alexander ‏@ice_chip 27s
EStaal; "I don't need to love my coach to perform and win." Said it's all about winning, getting job done. <- kessel would be crucified here if he said that.

I can't wait for this season to start.

Only in Toronto are headlines like yesterday national news.

The same day Selanne comes out with a book that basically has him swearing at Boudreau for not playing him enough or whatever else, he's still a beloved player and universally liked.

Then Kessel disagrees with a coach about a breakout play, which probably happens a lot, and it's pandemonium and the fans are ripping their hearts out before even playing the first pre-season game.

It's pretty funny when you think about it.

 

[Bullseye]

I know one thing Claude Julien would not be making exceptions for Phil to play the way he feels most comfortable.

Jonathon Toews sacrifices some offense for sound two-way hockey. Everyone knows that Phil is a durable point producer. As the highest paid guy on the team do we need him to be more than that?

It's a lot to ask but do we want him to be a complete player and a leader the way that Toews is for example?

 

[Muston Atthews]

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...1000&teamid=0&type=goals&sort=A20&sortdir=ASC

Out of 365 forwards who have have played 1000+ minutes over the past three years, Kessel is 348th for GA20 (goals against per 20 minutes of ES icetime), Bozak is 358th, Lupul is 364th, JVR is 342nd. Keep in mind that these guys DONT play shutdown minutes against top scoring lines.

So sure, he's among the most productive offensively, but he and the rest of our forwards are also among the very very worst in the league for the # of goals against they're on the ice for.

The point of hockey is to score MORE goals than the opposition, not just to score a lot of goals.

And Phil does his job and scores tonnes of goals. You'd figure the rest of the team could play some defense.

 

[Milan90]

I know one thing Claude Julien would not be making exceptions for Phil to play the way he feels most comfortable.

Jonathon Toews sacrifices some offense for sound two-way hockey. Everyone knows that Phil is a durable point producer. As the highest paid guy on the team do we need him to be more than that?

It's a lot to ask but do we want him to be a complete player and a leader the way that Toews is for example?

You do realize that Toews is paid like $4m more than Kessel? As is Kane, who's on the same team. Shouldn't you be berating Kane.. Who's making $12m/year and plays a virtually identical game to Kessel?

It's not as if every player is a blank slate where they can just flip a switch and say "I'm gonna make myself more offensively or defensively apt". That's like asking David Booth why he doesn't just go out and score 60. People are good at different things; there's a who's who of offensive players that weren't great defenders that are considered some of the best players of all time. Not everybody is a two way forward, not everybody's brain is wired to be amazing at hockey. Why doesn't Messi just curb his offensive skill and play defense?

I'd rather Kessel be an A on offense and a D on defense than a second liner because he doesn't excel at either.

 

[SprDaVE]

I know one thing Claude Julien would not be making exceptions for Phil to play the way he feels most comfortable.

Jonathon Toews sacrifices some offense for sound two-way hockey. Everyone knows that Phil is a durable point producer. As the highest paid guy on the team do we need him to be more than that?

It's a lot to ask but do we want him to be a complete player and a leader the way that Toews is for example?

What about Patrick Kane? Does he sacrifice some offence for the sake of defense? What does he do more then Kessel and why don't people get on his back for doing exactly what Kessel does for his team?

Kane will make 2.M more then Kessel too. I don't see many people berating him for doing what Kessel does.

Maybe because Chicago has an actual surrounding for Kane, whereas Kessel has crap to deal with? Kane has Toews, Kessel has Bozak... lucky him.

 

[Muston Atthews]

This is true, but he played 46 more games then Malkin. 6 more then St Louis. 8 more then Ovechkin. 74 more then Crosby. 45 more then Stamkos. 23 more then Tavares. 9 more then Getzlaf. 31 more then Hall etc...He isn't 2nd in Point Per Game over the last 3 seasons, though is durability/luck isn't nothing either.

So he's extremely durable AND puts up tonnes of points? You're making it seem like a bad thing that he's played more games than them

 

[Hanta Yo]

I don't get what's so hard to understand. Kessel isn't Toews, and will never be. Some of you just want to continue to pile it on players just because you can. Not sure what's wrong with appreciating Kessel for what he is, which is an elite offensive talent. I'm surprised some of you haven't poked at Kessel for not training hard enough in the offseason to grow a couple of more inches.

 

[jmart21]

I know one thing Claude Julien would not be making exceptions for Phil to play the way he feels most comfortable.

Jonathon Toews sacrifices some offense for sound two-way hockey. Everyone knows that Phil is a durable point producer. As the highest paid guy on the team do we need him to be more than that?

It's a lot to ask but do we want him to be a complete player and a leader the way that Toews is for example?

That's just the type of player JT is.
Phil Kessel is not that type of player.

Do the Hawks try to force Kane to be like JT? No.

We have an elite talent that's in his prime. Yet instead of appreciating what he brings to the table, people decide to nitpick what he doesn't bring to the table.

 

[silentbob37*]

You do realize that Toews is paid like $4m more than Kessel? As is Kane, who's on the same team. Shouldn't you be berating Kane.. Who's making $12m/year and plays a virtually identical game to Kessel?

It's not as if every player is a blank slate where they can just flip a switch and say "I'm gonna make myself more offensively or defensively apt". That's like asking David Booth why he doesn't just go out and score 60. People are good at different things; there's a who's who of offensive players that weren't great defenders that are considered some of the best players of all time. Not everybody is a two way forward, not everybody's brain is wired to be amazing at hockey. Why doesn't Messi just curb his offensive skill and play defense?

I'd rather Kessel be an A on offense and a D on defense than a second liner because he doesn't excel at either.

The counter argument to this Yzerman. Yzerman, one of the most dynamic offensive players at the time, didn't like playing under Bowman at first and bucked against Bowman's efforts to get him to play better defense to the point where the Red Wings almost traded him. Eventually Yzerman started to listen to Bowman and ended up becoming a two-way monster, and I think most people would agree Yzerman was a better hockey player and leader, and that change in his game was a big part in the Wings becoming the power house they became.

I don't think Kessel has to go through a similar transformation to be a good player, as I already said I think the issue is the Leafs asking Kessel to play a role he shouldn't be playing, but I don't think getting better defensively means not being good offensively or not being an impact player, which is what you seem to be implying.

 

[topched]

That's just the type of player JT is.
Phil Kessel is not that type of player.

Do the Hawks try to force Kane to be like JT? No.

We have an elite talent that's in his prime. Yet instead of appreciating what he brings to the table, people decide to nitpick what he doesn't bring to the table.

Totally agree. It's arguable Phil is the best pure goal scorer in the Nhl, with maybe Stamkos and Ovechkin slightly better. And if you look at Ovie, his defensive game has been way more suspect than PK and is trending in the wrong direction

The problem really is a lack of elite talent on this team. Because Phil is our best player it's expected he be the most complete player. Like you said, most other elite offensive players have more complete players around them.

 

[Bullseye]

So what you're sayin' is... No?

 

[The Beyonder]

Just another player leaf fans and leafs media are trying to run out of town. I don't care if players or coaches don't get along, win and that's all that matters. Don't win, then make changes. All this drama is superfluous and just reflective of the rabid media and fan base that is Toronto and the Canadian hockey market; anywhere else this would not even be news. Judge these players by their results this season, not how they act off the ice or during practice.

 

[Bullseye]

Just another player leaf fans and leafs media are trying to run out of town. I don't care if players or coaches don't get along, win and that's all that matters. Don't win, then make changes. All this drama is superfluous and just reflective of the rabid media and fan base that is Toronto and the Canadian hockey market; anywhere else this would not even be news. Judge these players by their results this season, not how they act off the ice or during practice.

That's what was written here last training camp - judge them by the team wins - so now what? BTW you are part of the rabid culture - you are writing on a Leafs chat board.

No-one wants to run our leading scorer outa town - but I guess suggesting an all round game to go with his impressive scoring is unfair.

 

[FlareKnight]

That's what was written here last training camp - judge them by the team wins - so now what? BTW you are part of the rabid culture - you are writing on a Leafs chat board.

No-one wants to run our leading scorer outa town - but I guess suggesting an all round game to go with his impressive scoring is unfair.

I think you are definitely exaggerating on this second part. Plenty want to run our leading scorer out of town because of their issues with his personality and character.

I'd say it is unfair since no matter how his all round game has improved since he's gotten here no one actually seems to care about that

 

[JoeyBeans]

I don't talk hockey in the summer.

 

[blueberrie]

I think the frustration from Kessel's game comes from a lack of a true franchise forward. Ideally your top forward who you pay the most, give the most ice time too, your longest active serving player should be a role model of the culture and game you want to play.

Two-way play, leadership, work ethic on/off the ice, willingness to go to war for your teammates are all traits you want your younger players to learn from and look up to.

Unfortunately Kessel is Kessel and unlikely to change now after 8 seasons in the NHL. Kane isn't asked to change in Chicago, but he's lucky to have Toews and Keith doing the majority of the heavy lifting.

The problem isn't Kessel, it's the lack of a true franchise forward that make Kessel worthwhile to have around. If we don't have a Toews, why bother having a Kane when you'll just finish in the basement most years?

 

[JoeyBeans]

I think the frustration from Kessel's game comes from a lack of a true franchise forward. Ideally your top forward who you pay the most, give the most ice time too, your longest active serving player should be a role model of the culture and game you want to play.

Two-way play, leadership, work ethic on/off the ice, willingness to go to war for your teammates are all traits you want your younger players to learn from and look up to.

Unfortunately Kessel is Kessel and unlikely to change now after 8 seasons in the NHL. Kane isn't asked to change in Chicago, but he's lucky to have Toews and Keith doing the majority of the heavy lifting.

The problem isn't Kessel, it's the lack of a true franchise forward that make Kessel worthwhile to have around. If we don't have a Toews, why bother having a Kane when you'll just finish in the basement most years?

So what hes not political, he still puts the puck in the net.

 

[The Beyonder]

That's what was written here last training camp - judge them by the team wins - so now what? BTW you are part of the rabid culture - you are writing on a Leafs chat board.

No-one wants to run our leading scorer outa town - but I guess suggesting an all round game to go with his impressive scoring is unfair.

Kessel was not the problem last year, and he isn't the problem this year. Does he have personality issues that might clash with the media and fans, probably, but the reality is that he gets a ppg season practically every year.

Pretty much every year it's the same thing with the media pertaining Kessel, yet every year he is the only consistent thing about this team. He's the only thing that comes even close to an elite category. So why are we here chastising the only thing that is good about this team? I am not saying he is is not tradeable, or a guy you build around, but he is the solitary thing that has performed on this team year in and out. Kessel is not a problem for this team; their problem is their ATROCIOUS centre depth, their terrible defensive system, and equally atrocious defensive depth.

And by rabid fanbase and media I'm not talking about just being a fan, but about being meticulous about one thing and magnify it to where it doesn't need to be. Anywhere else, this would have just blown through. This team's problems has nothing to do with Kessel, this team is bad for the reason I've stated and the management staff not addressing those needs enough.

And as for all around game, some players will never have that two-way game, Kessel isn't the first player nor the only player in the NHL to not have an all around game. When you have talented players who perform at PPG levels, you let things like that slide. He isn't liability anymore to the same level he was when he got here. He has improved his two way game; he does backcheck, he's implemented stop-and-go in his game, but regardless Phil will never improve his two-way to the point where some people will be satisfied. He is just not that kind of player. You deal with it and let him play, his offence is a big help to the team.