Confirmed with Link: [PHI/WPG] Kevin Hayes UFA rights for a 2019 5th, pt II

[LegionOfDoom91]

The last time the Flyers traded for a player’s rights it was Streit. They traded for them on the 12th of June & he ended up signing on the 28th.

 

[David St Hubbins]

The last time the Flyers traded for a player’s rights it was Streit. They traded for them on the 12th of June & he ended up signing on the 28th.

I don't understand. He clearly walked if it took more than a day or 2 ... ? Nobody takes more than 2 weeks without just going UFA. Isn't that how this works?

 

[Larry44]

Maybe Fletch is actually negotiating instead of just handing Hayes and his agent the contract he wants.

Hayes has all the leverage. Fletch has to overpay/add year(s) to get Hayes to forego his right to see what's out there. Which is why this is a dumb strategy unless you already know the guy is interested or he's THE ONE and you're prepared to over pay. Can anyone see Hayes as that high a priority? He's strictly meh.

He should not sign until at least the UFA talking window is open. Call Chicago or wherever and get a sense of what's out there. They aren't supposed to talk money but, yeah, right sure.

Then come back and sign if there isn't a better offer.

 

[deadhead]

I don't understand. He clearly walked if it took more than a day or 2 ... ? Nobody takes more than 2 weeks without just going UFA. Isn't that how this works?

No. Because the Flyers have a two week window, there's no reason to use high pressure tactics (this is our final offer, sign now or walk . . .).
I'm sure they're talking, first to gauge mutual interest, then to hammer out the details of a deal if Hayes is interested in playing here.

His agent has a pretty good sense by now what the market is, Duchene going off the market doesn't change that, anymore than JT being set on going to Toronto forced us to give JVR a 7 year deal.

In fact, looking at the FA market the last couple years, contracts have tended to be smaller and shorter than media experts expected, I think because most teams are close enough to the cap that they aren't willing to throw money around, the bad deals were teams like Vancouver (Beagle). Bad teams have to overpay, well, because why else would a player consider them as a destination?

 

[Psuhockey]

Hayes has all the leverage. Fletch has to overpay/add year(s) to get Hayes to forego his right to see what's out there. Which is why this is a dumb strategy unless you already know the guy is interested or he's THE ONE and you're prepared to over pay. Can anyone see Hayes as that high a priority? He's strictly meh.

I think he was the Flyers number one priority meh or not.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Hayes has all the leverage. Fletch has to overpay/add year(s) to get Hayes to forego his right to see what's out there. Which is why this is a dumb strategy unless you already know the guy is interested or he's THE ONE and you're prepared to over pay. Can anyone see Hayes as that high a priority? He's strictly meh.

He should not sign until at least the UFA talking window is open. Call Chicago or wherever and get a sense of what's out there. They aren't supposed to talk money but, yeah, right sure.

Then come back and sign if there isn't a better offer.

Hayes was always going to have all the leverage as a UFA. In this scenario, we have more leverage than every other team though (which is all that matters to me) since we can negotiate, convince him a little less $ is better for him long-term with this lineup and can even share Fletch's plans to go BIG in the coming years/this year.

The window is more valuable than people care to think. I don't love Hayes, but he makes our team better and he isn't a dinosaur. He'll be a positive in the end I think. Most UFAs traded right before free agency tend to sign with their new teams, I think. Not sure where the mentality that a UFA isn't going to sign comes from.

 

[Icedog2735]

Hayes has all the leverage. Fletch has to overpay/add year(s) to get Hayes to forego his right to see what's out there. Which is why this is a dumb strategy unless you already know the guy is interested or he's THE ONE and you're prepared to over pay. Can anyone see Hayes as that high a priority? He's strictly meh.

He should not sign until at least the UFA talking window is open. Call Chicago or wherever and get a sense of what's out there. They aren't supposed to talk money but, yeah, right sure.

Then come back and sign if there isn't a better offer.

Out of curiosity, if the goal is to attain a 2C, I would be interested in who your targets are if your opinion of Hayes is "meh".

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

It’s obviously early but acting like Hayes all the incentive to wait until July 1st if the Flyers put a competitive offer on the table is foolishness. There absolutely is risk on his end assuming better money/situation is going to be out there & that the Flyers offer will always stand as some type of fall back.

This isn’t some shitty free agent class where there’s little names out there. There likely is more names than money at this rate. Some guys are going to likely end up disappointed.

 

[46zone]

Hayes has all the leverage. Fletch has to overpay/add year(s) to get Hayes to forego his right to see what's out there. Which is why this is a dumb strategy unless you already know the guy is interested or he's THE ONE and you're prepared to over pay. Can anyone see Hayes as that high a priority? He's strictly meh.

He should not sign until at least the UFA talking window is open. Call Chicago or wherever and get a sense of what's out there. They aren't supposed to talk money but, yeah, right sure.

Then come back and sign if there isn't a better offer.

Fletcher doesn't have to do anything. I doubt Fletcher would simply cave to Hayes and his agent's demands. I like Hayes as a player, but there is definetly a ceiling to what teams would be willing to give him; there are comparable contracts for players of Hayes's caliber and I don't think any team will value Hayes substantially more than them (Nelson for example).

The Flyers sacrificed a 5th rounder for negotiating rights in a draft where they had 10 picks. They're not married to Hayes. Though should he decline to sign with the Flyers...it would be a look for the organization.

 

[baudib1]

It’s obviously early but acting like Hayes all the incentive to wait until July 1st if the Flyers put a competitive offer on the table is foolishness. There absolutely is risk on his end assuming better money/situation is going to be out there & that the Flyers offer will always stand as some type of fall back.

This isn’t some ****ty free agent class where there’s little names out there. There likely is more names than money at this rate. Some guys are going to likely end up disappointed.

In a world where Brock Nelson gets 6x6, I disagree.

 

[freakydallas13]

Well, to be fair, they’re right about 99%.

"But what are you doing about shootouts?"

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

In a world where Brock Nelson gets 6x6, I disagree.

Lou overpays all the time. The Isles are also looking at Lee, Eberle, & Lehner as current pending UFA’s on top of being a team that doesn’t even have a stable stadium situation.

You don’t think all those things didn’t play a hand in it & everything is just black/white?

 

[Foggy14]

This says ek had groin surgery today

Defenseman Erik Karlsson Undergoes Successful Groin Surgery

I love Karlsson's game. He was amazing when he drove the Senators to the conference finals in 2017.

But I don't love his left ankle:

Erik Karlsson says doctors removed 'half my ankle bone' - Sportsnet.ca

And the latest surgery isn't good news.

I'd still take EK in a heartbeat here. If he got injured like Pronger couldn't he just retire or go on LTIR anyway to open up cap space? I don't know too much about the LTIR and cap space so maybe I'm wrong.

Like Striiker, I was only two years old when the Pronger thing went down.

But I recall that his contract, and all the LTIR issues and cap juggling that went with it, was a royal pain.

Unlike Pronger (whose contract extension was a +35 deal which penalized retirement) Karlsson could retire without us being hosed, but why would he?

The Pronger deal got so weird we traded him to the Yotes for cap relief and to help Arizona get to the floor.

Would Fletch be willing to open himself up to the possibility of these problems by signing EK to a big, long-term deal? Maybe, but I'm not sure he should.

 

[Strawberry Fields]

"But what are you doing about shootouts?"

"What's the difference between a draft pick and a prospect?"

(Imagine spending God knows how much money on NHL season tickets and not knowing the difference)

 

[Tripod]

Mark Stone took 11 days to sign after he was traded....so no need to panic yet.

 

[baudib1]

Lou overpays all the time. The Isles are also looking at Lee, Eberle, & Lehner as current pending UFA’s on top of being a team that doesn’t even have a stable stadium situation.

You don’t think all those things didn’t play a hand in it & everything is just black/white?

The Isles' reasons for doing whatever they did is irrelevant. But Nelson absolutely sets the market higher than many anticipated.

 

[baudib1]

Mark Stone took 11 days to sign after he was traded....so no need to panic yet.

The Knights had a verbal agreement in place before making the deal.

 

[deadhead]

The Isles' reasons for doing whatever they did is irrelevant. But Nelson absolutely sets the market higher than many anticipated.

Not really, overpays don't set the market, they just cause other GMs to shake their heads.
An agent can't just point to Nelson, a GM will tell him to see if Lou will pay his player.

Just look at the contracts given out the last two years, Neal was overpaid and it had little impact on what Stastny, for example, got.

A better metric is how much the cap has increased, and apply that to contracts for similar players (age, talent, consistency, health). Teams are generally going to allocate a different % of their cap to different quality of players.

There are always a couple teams that will overpay for a couple players, same as in the draft, where there are always a couple "reaches."
Then the market settles down.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

The Isles' reasons for doing whatever they did is irrelevant. But Nelson absolutely sets the market higher than many anticipated.

Friedman said yesterday his camp was looking for 5x5 at least. So by all accounts they’re not even using Nelson’s deal as baseline at this moment.

 

[David St Hubbins]

"What's the difference between a draft pick and a prospect?"

(Imagine spending God knows how much money on NHL season tickets and not knowing the difference)

 

[baudib1]

Friedman said yesterday his camp was looking for 5x5 at least. So by all accounts they’re not even using Nelson’s deal as baseline at this moment.

That's not all accounts, that's one account. I'll be shocked if he takes less than Nelson.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

Still better than hexy going after one of his vet types and trading for dubinsky or some crap. Even if we miss on Hayes we at least made an attempt to add a good player to this roster, that is never a bad thing.

 

[baudib1]

Not really, overpays don't set the market, they just cause other GMs to shake their heads.
An agent can't just point to Nelson, a GM will tell him to see if Lou will pay his player.

Just look at the contracts given out the last two years, Neal was overpaid and it had little impact on what Stastny, for example, got.

Neal signed after Stastny did so yes, it had so little impact it shouldn't even be mentioned.

 

[DancingPanther]

Can't believe Hayes' rights are all we got back in the Lehtera trade

 

[Curufinwe]

Still better than hexy going after one of his vet types and trading for dubinsky or some crap. Even if we miss on Hayes we at least made an attempt to add a good player to this roster, that is never a bad thing.

When Hextall finally had a similar amount of cap room as Fletcher does now, he went after good players like JVR and Stastny. He just didn't trade picks for their UFA rights.