Speculation: Phaneuf, revisited

[sarcastro]

Yeah, I agree. Green, Marchenko, and Pulkinnen make Zidlicky's presence redundant. And as you mentioned he hasn't looked great since his initial burst. And is it just me, or has our PP looked steadily worse since Zidlicky's arrival?

It has, but then during that time have they had Zid, Hank, Pavel, and Abdelkader all in the lineup at the same time? I don't think they have.

Having Weiss on your power play is going to make it look bad.

 

[Leadzedder]

Yikes. Toronto couldn't eat enough salary for me to take Kessel off their hands. He's a ghost when it matters.

Both those guys have been playing for a loser club. I'm starved for offensive talent. Kessel might not be ideal but there's not much out there available. If you can add a nice pick or two and pile more assets into a Phaneuf deal and end up with Kessel on Pav's wing I think it should be looked at.

I'd prefer Kessel than unused cap space. But the other option there is to hope Franzen and Cole come back. Use the salary there and demote Callahan from the plan. Or hope Kovalchuk makes it back over here and signs but that's extreme longshot.

 

[TCNorthstars]

My armchair roster and lines for next year.

Helm - Datsyuk - Kessel
Abdelkader - Zetterberg - Pulkinnen
Nyquist - Sheahan - Tatar
Miller - Glendening - Ferraro
Andersson & Callahan

Kronwall - Green
Phaneuf - Dekeyser
Ericsson - Marchenko
Ouellet

Howard / Mrazek


A boat load of salary coming in but we've dropped...
Weiss, Franzen (LTIR), Cleary, Jurco, Kindl, Smith, Quincey

I have the above roster coming in at 70 mil. Roll every line equal time, stay fresh.


My proposed deal to Toronto was 2 1sts, Weiss, Jurco (or Pulkinnen but I'd like to keep him), Smith, Quincey (or Ericssson) , maybe another B prospect (Frk, Nasty, Bert or Sproul?)

No way Toronto would go for this.

 

[Leadzedder]

The suggested offer for Phaneuf was Weiss, Smith and Pulkinnen. I'll substitute Pulk for Jurco as some TO fans have said they'd either prefer or be ok with Jurco instead of Pulk.

So from there, we've added 2 1sts, Quincey and a B prospect (Frk, Nasty, Bert, Sproul) for the addition of Kessel and his nasty contract.

I actually think it's too much but should be in the ball park as to actually be of interest to TO.


So TO gets
1st round pick
1st round pick
Weiss (camp dump / 2nd line centre)
Smith (decent young defender with some upside, good contract)
Jurco (good young top 9 forward with upside)
Quincey (quality 3/4 dman at market value)
B prospect (lots of good names on that list)

They could unload some of those assets at the TDL for quality picks. That's a pretty big haul for them.

 

[sarcastro]

Both those guys have been playing for a loser club. I'm starved for offensive talent. Kessel might not be ideal but there's not much out there available. If you can add a nice pick or two and pile more assets into a Phaneuf deal and end up with Kessel on Pav's wing I think it should be looked at.

I'd prefer Kessel than unused cap space. But the other option there is to hope Franzen and Cole come back. Use the salary there and demote Callahan from the plan. Or hope Kovalchuk makes it back over here and signs but that's extreme longshot.

Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan, Helm, Abdelkader, Mantha, Larkin. I don't see any such lack of offensive talent in this team's future. They have a wealth of skill, size, speed, playmaking, and leadership within that group and there are also several others in the pipeline who could add to the list if they keep developing.

Those guys will require cap space to keep as they get better and their entry level deals expire. That's space you won't have if you add Kessel.

Not to mention the fact that he would clog up a top line spot that over of those other guys should be filling.

 

[Leadzedder]

I hear that. But we got 14 shots on goal last night.



Just took a look at Kessel... he's 27. He has 13 goals and 8 assists in 22 playoff games. Doesn't seem too "ghostly".

 

[sarcastro]

I hear that. But we got 14 shots on goal last night.

Understood, but that doesn't mean Kessel is a good idea.

Get Abby, 2016 Mantha, and 2017 Larkin in there and it's a different game.

 

[Leadzedder]

Yeah, I'm not so much disagreeing with you. But I think it's a thought. Without digging into salary spreadsheets I'd take a wild guess that we could fit his salary in long term but I'm just guessing.

There's a big gap in ages between D/Z and the next wave. Maybe Kessel isn't the right player but there's certainly room to take on a star player at the age of 27ish. Even if he needs to be beat into shape a bit.

 

[detredWINgs]

No business worrying about offense up fromt until we rectify that problem on the back-end.

 

[PelagicJoe]

Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan, Helm, Abdelkader, Mantha, Larkin. I don't see any such lack of offensive talent in this team's future. They have a wealth of skill, size, speed, playmaking, and leadership within that group and there are also several others in the pipeline who could add to the list if they keep developing.

Those guys will require cap space to keep as they get better and their entry level deals expire. That's space you won't have if you add Kessel.

Not to mention the fact that he would clog up a top line spot that over of those other guys should be filling.

Datsyuk will most likely be retired by the time Mantha and/or Larkin will be worth any kind of franchise price tag, would he not?

 

[sarcastro]

Datsyuk will most likely be retired by the time Mantha and/or Larkin will be worth any kind of franchise price tag, would he not?

Yes, but Mrazek will be up for a new deal by then, as will Dekeyser, Glendening, and others. The Wings will have their hands full keeping their good players without taking $15m in cap dump from the Leafs. The Phaneuf deal would be almost cap neutral since they'd be dumping Weiss. But adding Kessel would be prohibitive. Not to mention the added asset costs, which presumably would be huge. Two firsts = Larkin and Mantha. Ouch.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

The bad thing about Phanuefs contract is the length


Toronto has to eat some Major salary. Like 4 mil

 

[SoupNazi]

The bad thing about Phanuefs contract is the length


Toronto has to eat some Major salary. Like 4 mil

That's not going to happen for a package Wings fans would be happy with.

 

[odin1981]

If we make a trade for that ***** this off season every person affiliated with the DRW pro scouting needs to be fired.

 

[lidstromiscool]

After watching the Caps today, I wouldn’t mind taking a hard look at Green. He looked like money in the offensive zone and transitioned the puck up ice pretty well a few times, something our current defense lacks. Didn’t see him much in the dzone so can’t really comment on that but he looked like Zidlicky on steroids from what I saw.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Lol @ the guy saying we should get Kessel

 

[Sadekuuro]

After watching the Caps today, I wouldn’t mind taking a hard look at Green. He looked like money in the offensive zone and transitioned the puck up ice pretty well a few times, something our current defense lacks. Didn’t see him much in the dzone so can’t really comment on that but he looked like Zidlicky on steroids from what I saw.

Yep, if he wants to come to Detroit I think he's a far better option than Phaneuf.

 

[InjuredChoker]

retaining 4 mil is also impossible. CBA doesn't allow that. 50% of contract is max.

 

[Leadzedder]

Lol @ the guy saying we should get Kessel

Good contribution.

Are you happy with our offensive production this year? Next year? And onward? If not, any suggestions?

 

[Sami]

I want Marchenko and Ouellet. Go for Green, trade Ericsson and Smith.

 

[Run the Jewels]

I want Marchenko and Ouellet. Go for Green, trade Ericsson and Smith.

This thread is careening off the rails so might as well offer up my $0.02 on the defense.

Tyler Myers was my #1 target and I said as much on the threads that indicated we were in negotiations to trade for him. I would have fought to get the best deal I could get but if it cost Larkin I would have made that deal. #1 d-men just entering their prime who are right handed and are capable of 50+ points are incredibly rare and you could have gotten one since the Sabres are going through a rebuild. That ship has sailed.

I woudn't touch Phaneuf as he doesn't address a core need, he's not a #1 d-man, he makes an obscene amount of money for what he brings to the table, he's not a top level offensive d-man, he isn't a right-handed shot, and all he really brings is the ephemeral "grit" that some people like. I think it's pretty rad too, just not worth $7 million for a guy with slow recognition skills and a penchant for making boneheaded plays.

Green seems like the most likely because acquiring him is pretty straightforward. He'd address our need for a RHD who can pile up the points. He's not a #1 d-man and that's means we'd still need Ericsson unless DeKeyser becomes a top pairing guy, but even in that scenario he can't really play with Kronner as they both play on the left side. So it's tough to see a scenario where we have another RHD who can play on the top pairing with either Kronner or DeKeyser when he probably takes over in the near future.

So you'd probably be looking at something like:

Kronwall-Ericsson
DeKeyser-Green
Quincey-Marchenko
Ouellet

That's a clear improvement and gets us just above mediocre. Holland needs to get rid of Kindl and Smith but I suspect he will keep Smith around until his value plummets to Kindl levels and then no one will take him off your hands.

 

[Winger98]

Good contribution.

Are you happy with our offensive production this year? Next year? And onward? If not, any suggestions?

Was happy until we lost Franzen, Gator, and Cole. Going into next year, we still have ten forwards undercontract, and five RFA forwards to be re-signed that are currently with the big club. We also have Mantha, Larkin, Athanasiou, Callahan, and Nosek knocking on the door. While I wouldn't be entirely against bringing in a forward, it has to be a contract that works for us and we have to be able to arrange the rest of the roster to accommodate it. Kessel is a good player, but an $8m cap hit for the next four years for a wing is a bit hard to swallow - especially with the number of kids we have coming up who could fill that same spot (to varying degrees of efficiency).

If we're bringing in a forward, I think we need to focus on a center - if we're basically ruling Weiss out from that spot. Z and D are getting older. I still think it would help both of them to be put on one line, and to have greater scoring support from beneath them with Sheahan centering line 2 and someone other than Andersson or Glendening centering line 3. Maybe open it up to competition in camp and see if AA can take it and run with it, maybe sign a guy like Horcoff or Fisher to one or two year deal to center that third line.

I don't think a guy like Kessel would be a great use of resources, especially if we fix our blueline and get better play from our backend.

 

[8snake]

Sheahan has to show me more before I pencil him in as the #2 going forward. A LOT more. His upside to me is still a quality #3 with some skill. He's shown flashes of possibly more, but I don't see him as a long term top 6 guy.

 

[Winger98]

Sheahan has to show me more before I pencil him in as the #2 going forward. A LOT more. His upside to me is still a quality #3 with some skill. He's shown flashes of possibly more, but I don't see him as a long term top 6 guy.

he was nearly .5 ppg, pretty much broke even at faceoffs, and he's still just 23. I'd run him out there as our #2 to at least start the year next year and not really worry about it. If he can't hack it, you can break up Z&D later in the year (or maybe we'll have Weiss still...).

 

[Ennui]

As much as it pains me to say it, given the laughable faceplant the Wings D performed in game 2, we need to sign someone like Phaneuf and get rid of a few D men that have no idea how to play D.