Speculation: Phaneuf, revisited

[InjuredChoker]

I move Q because we can probably get a 2nd or 3rd for him. He shouldn't have a future here beyond this contract. His turnaround in play has a certain degree of DeKeyser carrying him, I think he has improved and the physicality is certainly welcome but I still ship him this off-season. Especially since in my opinion that allows a double swoop for Green and Phaneuf. Ericsson goes down to the third period and PK guy that he is, he is good at that role. He also can play with a lot more nastiness as he doesn't conserve his energy nearly as much. It is what I would like to see in all honesty.

Kronwall - Green
DeKeyser - Phaneuf
Ericsson - Marchenko
Ouellet/Jensen

You then trade either Howard or Ericsson entering the off-seaosn and the other goes to Vegas in the allocation draft. Freeing a couple of the spots. IF Ericsson is really good in that third pairing heavy pk role you could reconsider but that would be my plan.

For all the hand-ringing both Howard and Ericsson would be very attractive options should they be left exposed in the expansion draft.

with that defense, we would be paying in 3-5 years about 23 million for bottom pairing defenseman.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

I move Q because we can probably get a 2nd or 3rd for him. He shouldn't have a future here beyond this contract. His turnaround in play has a certain degree of DeKeyser carrying him, I think he has improved and the physicality is certainly welcome but I still ship him this off-season. Especially since in my opinion that allows a double swoop for Green and Phaneuf. Ericsson goes down to the third period and PK guy that he is, he is good at that role. He also can play with a lot more nastiness as he doesn't conserve his energy nearly as much. It is what I would like to see in all honesty.

Kronwall - Green
DeKeyser - Phaneuf
Ericsson - Marchenko
Ouellet/Jensen

You then trade either Howard or Ericsson entering the off-seaosn and the other goes to Vegas in the allocation draft. Freeing a couple of the spots. IF Ericsson is really good in that third pairing heavy pk role you could reconsider but that would be my plan.

For all the hand-ringing both Howard and Ericsson would be very attractive options should they be left exposed in the expansion draft.

Isnt the draft for the new team supposed to be below average players. I dont see Howie or Ericsson in that. well Maybe Ericsson

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

with that defense, we would be paying in 3-5 years about 23 million for bottom pairing defenseman.

You hope they can get some retention on Phaneuf.

I wouldn't pay DeKeyser over 5 million we will see where it comes in. Four D-man on a team make good money and that is a fact of life. Kronwall's cap hit is fairly low because of his deal and that is good news.

I really do think Ericsson winds up in Vegas. But we will see, I think the Wings are going to use that to push a good enough player that they are interested but one that doesn't fit with our salary structure.

20 to 30 million on D isn't a big deal if they are good. Especially if the cap stays around 70 million or goes up, seems unlikely with the Canadian dollar and the long-term impact of Shale Oil on their economy.

But yes there would be some cap dancing. The movement of Quincey, Weiss and Smith alleviates some of the concern short-term and you can figure out more down the road. That is life in the cap system, perhaps it drives one of our wings in Tatar or Nyquist out of town eventually such is life a lot easier to win with lesser wings than a lesser defense in my opinion.

 

[stonewalled]

Detroit fans please dont forget how good the last Toronto D that was run out of town played for you guys. Phaneuf is good when used properly.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Detroit fans please dont forget how good the last Toronto D that was run out of town played for you guys. Phaneuf is good when used properly.

he can be good when used properly but imo that isn't on top pairing RD and he likely won't be able to maintain his level of play for the duration of his contract.

 

[detredWINgs]

The longer we go with this stretch of mediocre play, the more I sour on the idea of getting Phaneuf. Kronwall is either starting to go downhill or at an age where he just can't be as effective after 60+ games of hockey (hopefully not both), Ericsson's solid 1.5 seasons are now looking like a fluke, Ouellet trailed off once the adrenaline faded, March has looked terrible in his first stint on a 2nd pairing, Smith is a mess, Kindl is done, Quincey's solid play comes with Dekeyser and/or bottom pairing match-ups as denominators and Zidlicky is polarizing.

I'm worried that Phaneuf will find himself in a situation in Detroit that is far too similar to what he's going through in Toronto: playing too far up the ladder, not being surrounded by many other strong leaders on defense, etc.

If we overhaul the defense and Phaneuf is part of that - for example, adding one of Sekera/Petry/Green in addition to Phaneuf and integrating March into the bottom pairing - then I'd be on board, but I worry that the risk-averse Holland will be so smug that he made a big move in bringing in Phaneuf that he'll be far too content to do little else.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

The longer we go with this stretch of mediocre play, the more I sour on the idea of getting Phaneuf. Kronwall is either starting to go downhill or at an age where he just can't be as effective after 60+ games of hockey (hopefully not both), Ericsson's solid 1.5 seasons are now looking like a fluke, Ouellet trailed off once the adrenaline faded, March has looked terrible in his first stint on a 2nd pairing, Smith is a mess, Kindl is done, Quincey's solid play comes with Dekeyser and/or bottom pairing match-ups as denominators and Zidlicky is polarizing.

I'm worried that Phaneuf will find himself in a situation in Detroit that is far too similar to what he's going through in Toronto: playing too far up the ladder, not being surrounded by many other strong leaders on defense, etc.

If we overhaul the defense and Phaneuf is part of that - for example, adding one of Sekera/Petry/Green in addition to Phaneuf and integrating March into the bottom pairing - then I'd be on board, but I worry that the risk-averse Holland will be so smug that he made a big move in bringing in Phaneuf that he'll be far too content to do little else.

my fear is that holland smugness will lead him to thinking the best way to build a professional sports franchise is through free agency, will put all his eggs in that one basket, strike out on Mike Green(for any one of a # of reasons fans will agree with) and will have no plan B and will enter camp with the same island of misfit toys we have today, will allow Babcock to keep one rookie(Marchy or Ouellet) and will then waive kindl or smith to accomodate it all the while not getting a single thing back on their multi-million dollar investments

 

[Heaton]

my fear is that holland smugness will lead him to thinking the best way to build a professional sports franchise is through free agency, will put all his eggs in that one basket, strike out on Mike Green(for any one of a # of reasons fans will agree with) and will have no plan B and will enter camp with the same island of misfit toys we have today, will allow Babcock to keep one rookie(Marchy or Ouellet) and will then waive kindl or smith to accomodate it all the while not getting a single thing back on their multi-million dollar investments

When has that ever been the case? Holland has always built through the draft.

 

[Squirrel in the Hole]

When has that ever been the case? Holland has always built through the draft.

Agree. If anything, losing out on Suter and Parise should have taught him that.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Detroit fans please dont forget how good the last Toronto D that was run out of town played for you guys. Phaneuf is good when used properly.

Mike Green is a much better comparable to Larry Murphy than Dion Phaneuf.

 

[Winger98]

Mike Green is a much better comparable to Larry Murphy than Dion Phaneuf.

Murphy? I thought he was referencing Jamie Macoun.

 

[PelagicJoe]

Detroit fans please dont forget how good the last Toronto D that was run out of town played for you guys. Phaneuf is good when used properly.

Very true. We got some good D from Toronto: Murphy, Macoun, Rouse (well, he was FA out of TOR, but still counts.)

 

[Claypool]

Very true. We got some good D from Toronto: Murphy, Macoun, Rouse (well, he was FA out of TOR, but still counts.)

Speaking of Murphy, he was traded to Detroit for future considerations. Anyone know what that ended up turning into?

 

[sarcastro]

Speaking of Murphy, he was traded to Detroit for future considerations. Anyone know what that ended up turning into?

Pretty sure it was nothing.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Speaking of Murphy, he was traded to Detroit for future considerations. Anyone know what that ended up turning into?

Nobody

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

When has that ever been the case? Holland has always built through the draft.

sorry i should have said, "address major/structual team needs" and ever since lidstrom retired(and before even if one knew lidstrom was getting older) he has tried, very poorly mind you, to address the state of the backend solely through free agency in which he puts all his eggs in one basket.

i hope he has learnt that dosent work.

you either have to draft in the lottery spots or get very lucky in the mid rounds or, you make clever trades that benefit you both today and long term

 

[Heaton]

sorry i should have said, "address major/structual team needs" and ever since lidstrom retired(and before even if one knew lidstrom was getting older) he has tried, very poorly mind you, to address the state of the backend solely through free agency in which he puts all his eggs in one basket.

i hope he has learnt that dosent work.

you either have to draft in the lottery spots or get very lucky in the mid rounds or, you make clever trades that benefit you both today and long term

Erm, who has been available through trade? And he's drafted pretty well when it comes to defense. I don't see him putting all his eggs in one basket.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Erm, who has been available through trade? And he's drafted pretty well when it comes to defense. I don't see him putting all his eggs in one basket.

well 6 months ago leddy and boychuk were traded for scraps

myers
methot
bouwmeester
yandle
bogosian
big buff
phaneuf
campbell
burns
garrison
coburn


those are off the top of my head in the last five years

if they were traded then they were available and all of them are better then guys in our top 6

 

[InjuredChoker]

well 6 months ago leddy and boychuk were traded for scraps

myers
methot
bouwmeester
yandle
bogosian
big buff
phaneuf
campbell
burns
garrison
coburn


those are off the top of my head in the last five years

if they were traded then they were available and all of them are better then guys in our top 6

except some of those were unlikely available for wings and/or we didn't have the cap space.

there are some god targets but the same issue would exist. top 2 centers are too old. at the time of some of those trades they were not but in a case of player like burns it would've been fairly short window. and he can't play defense. and in many of those trades it likely means no nyquist or tatar. or it doesn't address our biggest weakness on top pair RD.

now it's already too late. jets weren't trading bogo just for pure futures. myers wasn't going just for larkin no matter what that crap report said.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

except some of those were unlikely available for wings and/or we didn't have the cap space.

there are some god targets but the same issue would exist. top 2 centers are too old. at the time of some of those trades they were not but in a case of player like burns it would've been fairly short window. and he can't play defense. and in many of those trades it likely means no nyquist or tatar. or it doesn't address our biggest weakness on top pair RD.

now it's already too late. jets weren't trading bogo just for pure futures. myers wasn't going just for larkin no matter what that crap report said.

I am not sure its the best policy to always find excuses why others found ways to improve but that we couldnt.

 

[Frk It]

Erm, who has been available through trade? And he's drafted pretty well when it comes to defense. I don't see him putting all his eggs in one basket.

Drafted pretty well when it comes to defense, how? We haven't drafted a regular/top 4 guy since Quincey in 2003. That's awful.

 

[Avery Rule]

Murphy? I thought he was referencing Jamie Macoun.

What we need is another Uwe Krupp

 

[Run the Jewels]

I am not sure its the best policy to always find excuses why others found ways to improve but that we couldnt.

Well the first excuses were that Myers wasn't any good any more because of his stats on a terrible Buffalo team. Then the excuse becomes oh well he wasn't worth what it would have cost to get him. A savvy GM would have bought low and addressed a major need but that ship has sailed.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Well the first excuses were that Myers wasn't any good any more because of his stats on a terrible Buffalo team. Then the excuse becomes oh well he wasn't worth what it would have cost to get him. A savvy GM would have bought low and addressed a major need but that ship has sailed.

Bought low?

Buffalo wanted Mantha/Larkin, a 1st, and likely something else. There was never any "buy-low" opportunity for Tyler Myers. If there was a buy low opportunity, Holland would have taken it.

 

[InjuredChoker]

I am not sure its the best policy to always find excuses why others found ways to improve but that we couldnt.

analysis. not excuses. kenny has his share of blame in that as his asset management hasn't been good. many other teams have more assets, expandable assets and young core. we don't. i'm far from kenny apologist, i've criticized him a ton.

Well the first excuses were that Myers wasn't any good any more because of his stats on a terrible Buffalo team. Then the excuse becomes oh well he wasn't worth what it would have cost to get him. A savvy GM would have bought low and addressed a major need but that ship has sailed.

i thought myers was top 4D and maybe more. even said it back then and iirc called out others who said he sucks.

there was never buying low with myers when murray was the GM.