It's so much more worrying that this time it's a guy who played 4 full years for the Petes who doesn't want his kid playing here. If it was some random agent who just heard bad things but didn't actually know for himself, I could write that off as just unlucky. But this guy knows Peterborough in and out and he still would rather move his whole family to a different continent than have his kid play here..... That's really, really bad for us
Peterborough Petes 2019 Offseason Thread
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USHL Draft kicks off tonight... interested to see what happens with Jared Mangan, Yuri Ushakov and Mason McTavish. I think Mangan could be someone who surprises and turns out to be a gem... I hope he shows up to Petes rookie camp.
Generalsupdates
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If there's someone who knows about poorly managed hockey clubs, it's Dale Mctavish. Check out the Pembroke Lumber Kings record before (5 consecutive league titles under Sheldon Keefe) and after (2 playoff series wins in 6 years, missed playoffs 2 of last 3 seasons) his arrival. No wonder he wants to move to Switzerland.
A couple more from here:
Hockey Prospects
1 - Tippett
2- Vilardi
3- McLeod
4 - Levin
5 - Phillips
6 - Blacker
7 - Ratcliffe
8 - Meireles
9 - Jones
10 - Hawel
Sean Lafortune
1. David Levin - Don Mills Flyers (GTHL)
2. Gabriel Vilardi - CIHA Voyageurs (OEMHL)
3. Michael Pastujov - Detroit HoneyBaked U16 (HPHL)
4. Ryan McLeod - Toronto Marlboros (GTHL)
5. David Farrance - Syracuse Stars U16 (USPHL)
6. Owen Tippett - Toronto Red Wings (GTHL)
7. Vanya Lodnia - Detroit HoneyBaked U16 (HPHL)
8. Hayden Davis - Hamilton Huskies (ALLIANCE)
9. Ian Blacker - Brampton 45s (OMHA - SCTA)
10. Greg Meireles - Ottawa Jr 67s (OEMHL)
---
no Gallant in sight...
I completely agree that this was almost certainly not Oke's call alone. I feel like it was definitely an organizational decision to draft the best player available, regardless. So I don't think Oke alone can take the blame when (if?) McTavish doesn't show up.
Sounds like rookie camp will be this Saturday (the 11th)... I imagine he will not be attending. Petes haven’t tweeted anything about it so not sure if they will release rosters or not.
I'll be stunned if he ends up playing here. I hope I'm wrong, but I just don't think it will happen.
EvenSteven
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I'm not so sure Oke's selecting McTavish was a big mistake. It's obvious that he is building to go all in for this coming season. That being the case, he has to pull out all the stops to make this team the best it can be.
If I'm him, I have two areas of concern: My draft cupboard and expendable youth that could be traded for a high-end player or two.
The draft cupboard isn't bare, but it isn't rich with excess 2nds and 3rds that potential trade partners always want in return for top players. Over the next five years, Peterboro has five 2nds and six 3rds. That's enough to improve on your roster somewhat. But it would be tough public relations wise, to completely exhaust that cupboard of 2nds and 3rds over the next five years while still only improving the team "somewhat".
So, this being the last year of his contract, if he is successful in going on a long run in the next postseason, it would be beneficial for him to have assets remaining in the cupboard in an effort to be resigned as the Petes GM going forward.
I don't believe Peterboro has enough assets over the next five years to do both.
Regarding the expendable youth on the roster. You have no first round 02 from last year. Your other 02's on the roster either wouldn't bring a ton in return, or are probably players you would want to keep around to help with the run and to at least have some sort of future going forward.
So by looking at your roster, and your draft cupboard, two things are obvious. You're setting yourself up for a run next season and you don't have a wealth of assets in which to improve your roster.
Looking at your overage situation for next year, you may be in the market for a couple OA's because you may lose a couple to graduation. You also may want to improve on the ones you have returning.
As we've seen at the last trade deadline, you can improve your roster without going overboard on spending if you want to bring in a couple very high-end OA's. High-end over agers versus equivalent caliber 19-year-olds usually come cheaper.
You may also want to bring in at least one 19-year-old elite player. Those acquisitions will cost you assets. You may not have enough to make those moves.
I'm betting that Oke had all this in mind going into the draft. He may be of the opinion that in order to make the moves he will need to make by next year's deadline, he was going to have to trade a high-end young player - meaning, an 03 first round pick. He has two first round picks in the draft. He can designate one of them to be traded at the deadline, and the other to hold onto for the future going forward. He could take the best player who will report at number five and deal that player at the deadline or take the best player available no matter if he would report or not knowing that that player could be designated to be traded at the deadline if he's a no report. I believe he did the right thing by drafting McTavish where he did. Had he taken a lesser player in that spot, that player may not of had the trade value that McTavish has. By doing that, he gives himself a high-end asset to go towards building for next season. I'm betting he originally planned to trade one of his 1st rounders at the deadline anyway. The McTavish camp talking of playing in Switzerland this year, likely a move to force a trade in September, only changes when he moves this first round pick.
Instead of trading an 03 1st rounder in January along with picks for a high-end elite player, trading McTavish in September would give him the assets to deal instead. As we saw at the last deadline, it is possible to acquire high-end elite players without having to give up a first round of 16-year-old, but you have to sweeten the pot with extra picks. By moving McTavish in September, they would have those extra picks.
So instead of doing a deal like Kitchener did a couple years ago for Logan Brown:
To Kitchener:
Logan Brown (WJC player)
Austin McEneny (solid OA D)
To Windsor:
Grayson Ladd (16 yr old 1st round).
2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 5th
...they can do a deal like London did a couple years ago for Mitchell Stevens:
To London:
Mitchell Stephens (WJC player)
To Saginaw:
2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd(cond).
So if you get the return for McTavish comparable to what you got for Cuylle, you will be bringing in three 2nds, three 3rds, and a fifth.
Based on the fact prices have come down a tad since that Stephens deal because restrictions on trading picks years down the road, that return for McTavish should be able to bring you an elite player of world junior championship caliber.
Then you dig into the assets you have remaining to improve your OA situation.
Going forward, you still have an 03 first rounder on your roster (Avon). Also, you have enough 00's (20-21 OA possibilities) to start the replenishment of the cupboard.
If I'm him, I have two areas of concern: My draft cupboard and expendable youth that could be traded for a high-end player or two.
The draft cupboard isn't bare, but it isn't rich with excess 2nds and 3rds that potential trade partners always want in return for top players. Over the next five years, Peterboro has five 2nds and six 3rds. That's enough to improve on your roster somewhat. But it would be tough public relations wise, to completely exhaust that cupboard of 2nds and 3rds over the next five years while still only improving the team "somewhat".
So, this being the last year of his contract, if he is successful in going on a long run in the next postseason, it would be beneficial for him to have assets remaining in the cupboard in an effort to be resigned as the Petes GM going forward.
I don't believe Peterboro has enough assets over the next five years to do both.
Regarding the expendable youth on the roster. You have no first round 02 from last year. Your other 02's on the roster either wouldn't bring a ton in return, or are probably players you would want to keep around to help with the run and to at least have some sort of future going forward.
So by looking at your roster, and your draft cupboard, two things are obvious. You're setting yourself up for a run next season and you don't have a wealth of assets in which to improve your roster.
Looking at your overage situation for next year, you may be in the market for a couple OA's because you may lose a couple to graduation. You also may want to improve on the ones you have returning.
As we've seen at the last trade deadline, you can improve your roster without going overboard on spending if you want to bring in a couple very high-end OA's. High-end over agers versus equivalent caliber 19-year-olds usually come cheaper.
You may also want to bring in at least one 19-year-old elite player. Those acquisitions will cost you assets. You may not have enough to make those moves.
I'm betting that Oke had all this in mind going into the draft. He may be of the opinion that in order to make the moves he will need to make by next year's deadline, he was going to have to trade a high-end young player - meaning, an 03 first round pick. He has two first round picks in the draft. He can designate one of them to be traded at the deadline, and the other to hold onto for the future going forward. He could take the best player who will report at number five and deal that player at the deadline or take the best player available no matter if he would report or not knowing that that player could be designated to be traded at the deadline if he's a no report. I believe he did the right thing by drafting McTavish where he did. Had he taken a lesser player in that spot, that player may not of had the trade value that McTavish has. By doing that, he gives himself a high-end asset to go towards building for next season. I'm betting he originally planned to trade one of his 1st rounders at the deadline anyway. The McTavish camp talking of playing in Switzerland this year, likely a move to force a trade in September, only changes when he moves this first round pick.
Instead of trading an 03 1st rounder in January along with picks for a high-end elite player, trading McTavish in September would give him the assets to deal instead. As we saw at the last deadline, it is possible to acquire high-end elite players without having to give up a first round of 16-year-old, but you have to sweeten the pot with extra picks. By moving McTavish in September, they would have those extra picks.
So instead of doing a deal like Kitchener did a couple years ago for Logan Brown:
To Kitchener:
Logan Brown (WJC player)
Austin McEneny (solid OA D)
To Windsor:
Grayson Ladd (16 yr old 1st round).
2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 5th
...they can do a deal like London did a couple years ago for Mitchell Stevens:
To London:
Mitchell Stephens (WJC player)
To Saginaw:
2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd(cond).
So if you get the return for McTavish comparable to what you got for Cuylle, you will be bringing in three 2nds, three 3rds, and a fifth.
Based on the fact prices have come down a tad since that Stephens deal because restrictions on trading picks years down the road, that return for McTavish should be able to bring you an elite player of world junior championship caliber.
Then you dig into the assets you have remaining to improve your OA situation.
Going forward, you still have an 03 first rounder on your roster (Avon). Also, you have enough 00's (20-21 OA possibilities) to start the replenishment of the cupboard.
EvenSteven
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Lol. I'm just a Ranger fan waiting around for the import draft. I've a lot of time on my hands!
Pick database still needs updating from trade window prior to 2019 draft; Petes acquired future 2,3,6,8 picks from OS & Erie.
Edit: actually, it seems only Miss 2020-2nd is missing from Petes listed picks
Last edited:
EvenSteven
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Lol!
One more point I'll add:
(And it's huge!)
If the Petes were to deal McTavish for the same return they traded Cuylle for last year (and there's every indication they would get the same return), the Petes make out like bandits!!
To Windsor:
Cuylle
To Peterboro:
Three 2nds. Three 3rds. One 5th.
Awarded:
Comp 1st rounder (McTavish)
Comp 2nd rounder.
Then:
To Whoever:
McTavish
To Peterboro:
Three 2nds. Three 3rds. One 5th.
Awarded:
Comp 2nd rounder.
Once the dust settles:
For drafting Cuylle and dealing him as a defective player, the Petes haul in:
Six 2nds. Six Thirds. Two 5ths. Two comp 2nds.
Wow!!!!
In my opinion, the Petes are in a no lose situation by drafting first Cuylle, then McTavish.
And Zebra suggested EvenSteven for GM? Hey, I'm humbled.
But how the heck could Oke be without a job after pulling off this heist??
The way I see it, he should be given an extension!!! Cuylle not reporting arguably propped up the Petes fortunes going forward.
And some fans rued the day that Oke picked Cuylle instead of the best player who would report.
Can someone explain again how this defective player rule is not good for perceived "have not" teams?
I think at some point you need top top end players both from the standpoint of winning a championship and getting other top top end players to report. All the 2nd and 3rds are nice but Petes fans haven't had a true OHL star player since... ? Even guys like Bogosian and Jordan Staal left after two years before they really dominated. People wonder why Petes fans are so willing to overlook Merkley's flaws... of course we are.
Is the last Petes player who could be considered a top 10 or 20 player in the league Eric Staal? The short Steve Downie eta? If we're very generous, maybe Ritchie.
It's so tiring have all those picks and only getting either more picks or the best player willing to report.
Not a bad argument at all, I actually think you make some very good points. But at the end of the day if those draft picks we keep stocking up on are never turned in to game breaking talent then it never really means anything.
For this plan of Oke’s to be successful he needs to turn this boatload of draft picks into another star player like he did with Merkley.... and the second rounders he keeps he better hit on otherwise we are going to be in for a long rebuild.
EvenSteven
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I know the Petes didn't draft him, but say what you want about Merkley, and I've said a lot over the last couple years, but he was the number one player taken in the OHL draft and is an NHL first rounder. That's high-end.
You can trade for very good players if not high end players if you have multiple second and third round picks.
Oshawa traded for Kitchener's former first round draft pick Vallatti last off-season. That's a mid first round OHL draft pick with a long playoff run under his belt that he was a big part of. It cost Oshawa two seconds and two thirds. They will get 2+ years service out of him.
Are the Petes better off with Cuylle in the lineup? Or are they better off with that huge return that resulted in him not wanting to play in Peterboro.
I suppose it can be argued both ways. He would be a dynamic player this coming year in a Petes uniform in a season that they are pushing to contend. But, would his presence be enough to make up for all those assets gained from him not reporting? How much better would Peterboro be able to make their team this season without all of those assets?
You can trade for very good players if not high end players if you have multiple second and third round picks.
Oshawa traded for Kitchener's former first round draft pick Vallatti last off-season. That's a mid first round OHL draft pick with a long playoff run under his belt that he was a big part of. It cost Oshawa two seconds and two thirds. They will get 2+ years service out of him.
Are the Petes better off with Cuylle in the lineup? Or are they better off with that huge return that resulted in him not wanting to play in Peterboro.
I suppose it can be argued both ways. He would be a dynamic player this coming year in a Petes uniform in a season that they are pushing to contend. But, would his presence be enough to make up for all those assets gained from him not reporting? How much better would Peterboro be able to make their team this season without all of those assets?
I'd say Eric Staal. Mostly because the other guys either left rather quickly, or just didn't put it all together (Ritchie). And before Staal, I think you'd have to go back to the Cameron Mann years.
EvenSteven
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I think it's great that a team can boast that they've produced elite players from their junior programs. Eric Staal was an elite player at the OHL level and a high end player at the NHL level. However, there are two different opinions on two year players at this level.
Who would you rather have in your lineup? A two year elite player or a four year very good player?
Back in the day, London drafted Rick Nash in the draft. He was a two year OHL player who moved directly into the NHL after he was drafted by Columbus. Conversely, in that same draft, St Mike's picked Tim Brent. Tim Brent was a high end four year player in this league. Sure, London has posters and pics all over their building of Rick Nash and how he graduated as a London night. But Rick Nash didn't help the London Knights one bit in years three and four of his eligibility.
A few picks later in that same draft, Kitchener selected Andre Benoit in the first round. They got five years service out of Benoit. If you ask a Ranger fan today who they would've rather had as a Ranger, Nash or Benoit, they'll go with Benoit 10 out of 10 times. Mainly because Benoit was still in the league when Kitchener won their 03 Memorial Cup. He was a huge part of that Cup win while Nash had already graduated to the NHL.
Hey. There's a big reason Bert Templeton selected Daniel Tkachuk 1st overall in Barrie's inaugural draft instead of top ranked Joe Thornton.
It had nothing to do with Tkachuk being the better player. Thornton wasn't going to do the Colts any good after he moved on to the NHL after year two - which he was expected to do. Templeton wanted a four year player to lead his expansion team.
Who would you rather have in your lineup? A two year elite player or a four year very good player?
Back in the day, London drafted Rick Nash in the draft. He was a two year OHL player who moved directly into the NHL after he was drafted by Columbus. Conversely, in that same draft, St Mike's picked Tim Brent. Tim Brent was a high end four year player in this league. Sure, London has posters and pics all over their building of Rick Nash and how he graduated as a London night. But Rick Nash didn't help the London Knights one bit in years three and four of his eligibility.
A few picks later in that same draft, Kitchener selected Andre Benoit in the first round. They got five years service out of Benoit. If you ask a Ranger fan today who they would've rather had as a Ranger, Nash or Benoit, they'll go with Benoit 10 out of 10 times. Mainly because Benoit was still in the league when Kitchener won their 03 Memorial Cup. He was a huge part of that Cup win while Nash had already graduated to the NHL.
Hey. There's a big reason Bert Templeton selected Daniel Tkachuk 1st overall in Barrie's inaugural draft instead of top ranked Joe Thornton.
It had nothing to do with Tkachuk being the better player. Thornton wasn't going to do the Colts any good after he moved on to the NHL after year two - which he was expected to do. Templeton wanted a four year player to lead his expansion team.
To be honest, I've never much cared what a player does as a pro after leaving the Petes. If they have a great NHL career, that's wonderful. I care about what they do in their career as a Pete and what they contribute. So I'd much rather have a guy who helps the Petes for 3 (or 4) seasons and goes on to play CIS and gets a normal job (absolutely nothing wrong with that) or plays a few years in the minors over a guy who shows potential, plays 2 seasons and is drafted and gone.
It is nice when you have an elite player who, for whatever reason, isn't going right to the NHL. I think of guys like Mann or Jason Dawe for the Petes. Elite players who also provide the team with multiple good seasons. Just my opinion, but I hold a player like Mike Harding in higher regard than Jordan Staal in terms of Petes history.
It is nice when you have an elite player who, for whatever reason, isn't going right to the NHL. I think of guys like Mann or Jason Dawe for the Petes. Elite players who also provide the team with multiple good seasons. Just my opinion, but I hold a player like Mike Harding in higher regard than Jordan Staal in terms of Petes history.
Thats fine, but Dawe and Harding don't sniff an OHL title without 2 years and done MVP Chris Pronger.
EvenSteven
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And the Petes drafted that 2 years and done MVP with a 6th round pick.
So when that 6th rounder graduated to the show after just two years of eligibility, how were the Petes affected, really, by that graduation? Sure they lost a great player, but they still had their top few picks from that draft.
A lot different than my Rick Nash example.
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