Post-Game Talk: Pens vs. Jets: Pens w/o 8 of their dmen from last year.... wait?!

[Pancakes]

I feel like JJ does only 3 things well at ES at this point: 1 on 1 defense in the dirty areas, blocking shots and disrupting zone entries (I think he's legit good at this, it's his best trait at this point). I feel like those 3 things complement Marino well, while Marino's strengths really complement JJ well.

Marino is obviously a great skater and puck mover, but the huge thing he's especially good at is carrying the puck. If that pair is JJ breaking up the rush and Marino carrying and moving the puck, I think it could work well. You have problems when you're stuck in your zone (because JJ is bad positionally and I'm not sure if Marino is good enough to compensate), but I think that pair would be highly effective in transition. Basically let Marino play like Letang and tell JJ to just hit people and break up the rush, I think that's about as good of a 3rd pair as you can make right now.

If JJ were good at disrupting zone entries you'd think that would translate into solid possession numbers. If he's good at that, why is the puck in our zone constantly when he's on the ice?

Anyways I didn't see the game tonight, but it sounds like the same issues we've had for a few years now. You can't blame the usual suspects either. Malkin is out. Kessel is gone. This is a forward and defensive group that should be capable of being defensively responsible. If they're not, you have to pin that at Sullivan's feet at this point.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

If we can make small moves NOW then we need to do that, not give up after 3 games. I'm all for a retool, but I don't wanna pack it in. I wanna see them fix the team along the way. Use more of your young WBS players for a start.

I genuinely do not think that approach is possible. This team needs big changes and a reboot. JR isn't the man to do that.

I'm all for giving young guys a shot, but this team was on shaky ground to begin with. Injuries and inconsistent play are going to combine for a scenario that's impossible to overcome, I think.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Yeah, it’d really suck if JR sells the farm for a quick fix, especially because it’ll be like some JJ+Addison+1st for Dustin Brown bull****.

You don't blame JR for that type of trade, you blame Mario since he would have to sign off on something like that. My guess is if things go South Ownership will meet with Management to hear their plan for this year an beyond.

 

[Pancakes]

Again, I'd rather we just pack it in and take our lumps to come back stronger next year and moving forward. The worst possible thing we could do is make crazy, desperation moves to push for the playoffs. This team is not close to being a good team. It's gonna take a lot of work. Work that should've started in earnest a long time ago, and should've been undertaken by a different GM.

The worst outcome I can think of for our situation is to spend assets like crazy in a mad, panicked scramble to stay relevant only to end up just missing or barely making the playoffs--only to get embarrassed in the 1st round again. Swallow your pride, accept the top-5 pick that's staring you right in the face, and move forward. Fire JR immediately, as well.

I'm not ready to punt on the season after three games. Realistically it will take at least 10-20 before we know what kind of team we are. So I'd give it that time and see what happens. If we're still struggling that many games in you consider a trade or a coaching move. I think under no circumstances do you move the first round pick though.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I'm not ready to punt on the season after three games. Realistically it will take at least 10-20 before we know what kind of team we are. So I'd give it that time and see what happens. If we're still struggling that many games in you consider a trade or a coaching move. I think under no circumstances do you move the first round pick though.

I know it won't happen immediately, but I just think this is what this team is. Injuries or no, it's a poorly constructed roster on a team rife with complacency, built by a GM that reeks of arrogance and delusion.

 

[66-30-33]

I genuinely do not think that approach is possible. This team needs big changes and a reboot. JR isn't the man to do that.

I'm all for giving young guys a shot, but this team was on shaky ground to begin with. Injuries and inconsistent play are going to combine for a scenario that's impossible to overcome, I think.

I'm afraid JR is here to stay. If you gotta retain on some players then retain a little if they have a few years left. Retain 1M for JJ and Gudbranson.

 

[Empoleon8771]

If JJ were good at disrupting zone entries you'd think that would translate into solid possession numbers. If he's good at that, why is the puck in our zone constantly when he's on the ice?

Anyways I didn't see the game tonight, but it sounds like the same issues we've had for a few years now. You can't blame the usual suspects either. Malkin is out. Kessel is gone. This is a forward and defensive group that should be capable of being defensively responsible. If they're not, you have to pin that at Sullivan's feet at this point.

Do you think zone entries are the only things that influences possession stats? Johnson otherwise is:

1. A bad skater
2. A horrible puck mover
3. A worse than horrible offensive player
4. An incredibly dumb defensive player

Him doing 1 thing well is negates out by him doing a **** ton else bad, but he still does that 1 thing well. You can say he sucks overall while being good in 1 or 2 areas, same way you can say Gudbranson is ass outside of his reach and fighting.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I’m not going to argue much for this current team, but there were tons of questions about both the Pens and Blues, they just got answered.

The Blues were going to blow things up and there was a lot of rumors about Tank being traded.

Pens didn’t have much of their foundation in 2015 until Daley and Hags came in, then the kids most people claimed were AHL fodder (aside from Murray) came up and gave them a huge boost.

At this time in 2015 Scuds was our JJ and things looked quite gloomy.

People just forget how bad things were back then because they won the cup.

Things were bad, but the baseline was there.

At the time you had Kunitz, Hornqvist, Kessel and Perron as a top six wingers. You then sent Perron for Hagelin.
At Center that depth held true with Crosby, Malkin, Bonino and Cullen.
At D is where the bigger change happen sending Scuderi for Daley, Schultz for a 3rd.

They already had a base with Letang, Dumoulin, Maatta, Cole, Lovejoy and Scuderi. Adding Daley and Schultz and subtracting Scuderi created their depth that changed little into 2017 until Letang got hurt.

The Pens simply are not even close to being in that kind of shape. They had proven commodities and then added even more.

They had a #1 goalie and due to a concussion they gained another.

There was a base there to build off of.

 

[Pancakes]

I know it won't happen immediately, but I just think this is what this team is. Injuries or no, it's a poorly constructed roster on a team rife with complacency, built by a GM that reeks of arrogance and delusion.

I think there are elements of the roster that are well constructed. The forward group is very deep, and I know that hasn't translated on the ice yet but on paper there's a ton of talent up front.

The defense is bad. No getting around that. Keeping both Gudbranson and JJ on the roster is beyond stupid. If you simply must have one of those type of d on the roster then that's fine, but never two.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I'm afraid JR is here to stay. If you gotta retain on some players then retain a little if they have a few years left. Retain 1M for JJ and Gudbranson.

If JR is still this team's GM by this time next season, I can pretty much guarantee we will never get close to another Cup in the Sid/Geno era. He's a directionless, arrogant, and clueless buffoon.

This team cannot take steps toward legitimately competing again, now or in the foreseeable future, as long as he's the man in charge. Simple as that.

 

[PensPlz]

Move JJ to wing.

 

[canadianguy77]

I appreciate that Simon has some decent skill, but man is he soft. Plug Hornqvist or Tanev into his spot tonight and that line probably has 3 or 4 goals. He avoids the front of the net like the plague. He would rather stand off 8 feet to the side of the net where there is zero contact, and zero realistic scoring chances.

 

[Pancakes]

Do you think zone entries are the only things that influences possession stats? Johnson otherwise is:

I'm not trying to be overly hard on him. I actually think he has played well (by his standards) in the games I have watched this year. Of course his standard is so low that that still translates to poor on ice results. But I've seen him be way worse, so there's that.

That said, I find it hard to believe he is all that good at anything given how bad his overall results are.

 

[USMC607]

With McKenzie saying tonight that the Penguins are now also shopping Gudbranson for forward help along with JJ and Riikola, I'm fairly confident that you'll see Gudbranson moved before November. Not necessarily as an indictment that they don't like him, but because they need forwards, have too many D (specifically one that should be pushing Gudbranson out of the lineup) and they can't trade JJ easily.

At least JR can try to hide him wanting JJ and Gud gone by saying we need forward help.

Altho lord only knows what we will have to package in any deal concerning JJ and Guds, or what we would even have to take back.

 

[Tender Rip]

I like Bleuger but he’s been a whole lot of Rowney this year.

He was good in preseason (I’m told), was OK in game 1, good in game 2, average suck with rest in game 3. Output notwithstanding... let’s not compare to Rowney. Blueger is obviously a better player.

 

[ImporterExporter]

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

The best hope for that line was to be Cooke-Letestu-Kennedy or whatever the hell that Fall 2011 line was briefly. All three of those guys play with blinders, especially McCann/Tanev.

I don't agree with this. Gally has decent vision and Tanev has been a surprisingly good playmaker.

ETA: So no one else misunderstands, I'm not labeling Tanev a "playmaker." I'm describing how he has performed in this specific area this season. He's not Adam Oates.

Sully liked what he saw? He's really becoming stubborn. His lineup is questionable every night. He took zero responsibility for that. He constantly plays the 2 defenders who suck instead of 2 defenders who at the bare min can suck the same way for 6m less. Now if only we could spend that 6m elsewhere.. hmmmmm

Sully earned his leash and got it. Time is ticking.

That's Sully. He believes in positivity. He knows what's going on and he isn't going to harp on the negatives to the media, especially with JR trying to make trades. And to be honest, there were things to like tonight. Really nothing stubborn about it.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

That was predictable. I even commented before the game that the Pens would struggle to score more than 1 goal despite the fact Winnipeg was icing essentially an AHL defense. The boys didn't let me down!

Barring some major additions, I think we might be seeing the first time the Pens miss the playoffs in the Sid/Geno era.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don't agree with this. Gally has decent vision and Tanev has been a surprisingly good playmaker.

That's Sully. He believes in positivity. He knows what's going on and he isn't going to harp on the negatives to the media, especially with JR trying to make trades. And to be honest, there were things to like tonight. Really nothing stubborn about it.

The last thing in the world I’d call Tanev is a good play maker. Honestly, he’s exactly what I thought he was and while he’s exciting point is we gave someone 3.5 mil because they’re fast and hit.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

The last thing in the world I’d call Tanev is a good play maker. Honestly, he’s exactly what I thought he was and while he’s exciting point is we gave someone 3.5 mil because they’re fast and hit.

That's two more things than a lot of our roster have going for them, and some cost the same or more.

 

[Pengu]

Instead of admitting he was wrong, JR will trade Petts instead to make room for Marino as there would be takers for him on a good contract....

 

[Gurglesons]

That's two more things than a lot of our roster have going for them, and some cost the same or more.

The only forward with less points making more money than Tanev is Bjugstad.

This is a stupid take because it’s three games, but those saying he would make Rust expendable are totally off base and to the surprise of nobody he’s been one of our worst possession players despite being fast and hitting a lot. AKA he’s chasing the play.

He’s a symptom of JR’s problems.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

The last thing in the world I’d call Tanev is a good play maker. Honestly, he’s exactly what I thought he was and while he’s exciting point is we gave someone 3.5 mil because they’re fast and hit.

I knew you'd be triggered at the mention of Tanev.

Fact is, he's made some excellent passes this season. So saying he plays with blinders isn't accurate right now, IMO.

 

[Gurglesons]

I knew you'd be triggered at the mention of Tanev.

Fact is, he's made some excellent passes this season. So saying he plays with blinders isn't accurate right now, IMO.

He’s also fumbled multiple chances. If Rust isn’t in his place when healthy I’ll be pissed. It’s pretty clear Tanev is what this org wants ZAR to be and they should put him where he belongs instead of trying to force him in the top six.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

He’s also fumbled multiple chances. It Rust isn’t in his place when healthy I’ll be pissed. It’s pretty clear Tanev is what this org wants ZAR to be and they should put him where he belongs instead of trying to force him in the top six.

Irrelevant to the discussion.