Post-Game Talk: Pens vs. Jets: Pens w/o 8 of their dmen from last year.... wait?!

[The Old Master]

Lafferty was one of the best players for either team and even if that was just first game adrenaline + luck I’d like to see him bumped up with Sid. I think he can possess as well as Simon while also bringing size and probably the right shot is advantageous for Sid.

your assuming that our coach will allow common sense to over rule stubbornness. how long have you watched this team?

 

[Andy99]

Another one to add to our woes...

 

[Pancakes]

This team has brought it for exactly 2 of 9 periods. Those 2 periods were against arguably the worst team in the league

Last night Winnipeg was decimated on defense. You could make a case right now they're like the 6th best team in their division

The PP looks like trash, the defense is in shambles and MM is struggling to locate a beach ball

I know it's only 3 periods but man this team is in MAJOR trouble as it stands now. Feel free to bookmark this post at the 15 game mark

You're not wrong that things look dire, I just think three games is too early to make a determination one way or the other.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Another one to add to our woes...

I feel like you can extend that to Pettersson and Gudbranson, too. Pettersson and Gudbranson have a better CF%, but worse xGF% because they're not generating good chances and are giving up good chances. If Jack Johnson is your 3rd best analytical defenseman (which he is so far this year), that tells me your defense is in serious trouble.

 

[Bingo71]

FFS people, it was a meaningless game in October against a non conference team! They’ve only lost two games so far this season, TWO!!!

Take a breath and step back from the ledge, Lord Stanley is coming come for a sixth time...

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Terrific start to the season, boys.

Really loving what I'm seeing, so far. Not at all ready to just throw in the towel already out of sheer frustration or anything. Nope. It's pretty rad how they are just playing exactly the same way they have the last two seasons. That way I don't have to learn anything new!

Truly inspiring. I especially loved how the no-name defense the whole hockey community was shaking their heads at leading up to the game hung three on you. Very nice of you... helping with their confidence like that. That's just what champions do, I guess. This lineup is absolute genius too, by the way. Tip of the cap to the intrepid coaching staff. And Malkin managing to injure himself 4 periods into the season after a whole offseason of hard work and hype? Classic subversion of expectations, right there... but also classic Geno! Boy you fellers sure know how to write a masterful plotline!

Anyway keep up the good work! Maybe try to get JR more in on the action, though. Package some actual promising young players (they probably won't play much here anyway!) and a draft pick for Rod Brind'amour or something. That would be awesome.

 

[AlphaMikeFoxtrots]

I got real excited for a minute when I got the notification that the Pens- especially Sid, given the night - had scored right off the hop. Then I walked out the door with a building feeling of dread, given how many times he did that very thing last season only for the team to **** it away.

I really hoping not to revisit that.

Anyway- wtaf was Sully thinking with that lineup???? We're already down at forward, so dress extra d???? I want Marino to play, but that wasn't it BEFORE the additional injuries. It's like they're just pulling **** out of a hat.

Edit: just to clarify, I want Marino playing as someone getting regular usage, not just getting thrown out for handful of good boy shifts.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Just watched the highlights. Murray... woof.

 

[Khelandros]

Penguins: A Theory

2014, Shero gets fired, Botterill named interim GM. Starts making a plan based on bodies that the Penguins have and needs that need to be filled.

June 2014, JR is hired as full time GM, names Botterill Associate GM based on plan that Botterill drew up regarding haves and needs.

Hires Johnston, deviating from plan and wasting a year. Sullivan doing things in WB draws Botterills attention which leads to Johnston being fired and Sullivan promoted.

2015, Botterill plan comes to fruition, win Cup.

2016, Botterill tweaks plan, plan comes to fruition, win Cup.

2016, Botterill leaves to Buffalo, because JR was only suppossed to be around for two years, but after the Botterplan produced so well, decides to extend his stay.

2017: After Botterill leaves, and with no plan, JR shifts from what was working to being harder to play against, i.e. toughness. Trades for Reeves, Oleksiak, and Sheahan. Sullivan not happy that his speed game is being taken away.

2018: Continues without a plan and just winging it based on what other teams are doing(??), trades for/signs old slow d-men, further ruining Sullivans speed game.

2019: After having 2 seasons with no plan, not being able to fix his dumb mistakes from previous years, JR paints himself into a corner with the cap, forced to demote players that shouldn't be demoted, and having too few of one and too many of other positions. Sullivan, having enough of the bullshit that has happened, plays JRs mistakes every, single, game. Power struggle happening in front office between Sullivan that wants to get back to the speed game vs JR who doesn't understand what needs to be done because the man with the plan is now in Buffalo.

Meanwhile, in Buffalo, Botterills first year, with the left overs from previous GM, Buffalo put up 25 wins for 62 points. Year two of the Botterill plan they put up 33 wins for 76 points, 14 point improvement. Year three of the Botterill plan, it's 3 games in but Buffalo is 2-0-1, with 13 goals for and 7 against.

Botterill was the lynch pin in all of it. The Penguins should have let JR leave with his 2 Cups and given the reins to Botterill.

 

[SouthGeorge]

Seriously, can we trade Letang yet? He's the only expendable piece that could get a decent return.

We lose to Buffalo, 3-1 and Jets 4-1. It's not translating to goals and no defense is being played. Need to stop playing in the middle and pick one. We have way better forwards than Buffalo and Jets and only 2 goals. Just get defense to play defense and let our forwards handle scoring the goals. Honestly the Jets had 8 new D and scored 4 goals with less talented forwards. What possible case can you make that Letang is needed? The proof is right there, 2017, and that great stretch of hockey at the end of last year when he was injured.

 

[MartinS82]

Yeah.... Well....I don't feel bad for you at all because I'm a Penguin fan..... And..................a Dolphins fan

Me too. My baseball team is the Angels. My teams suck.

 

[Gurglesons]

Penguins: A Theory

2014, Shero gets fired, Botterill named interim GM. Starts making a plan based on bodies that the Penguins have and needs that need to be filled.

June 2014, JR is hired as full time GM, names Botterill Associate GM based on plan that Botterill drew up regarding haves and needs.

Hires Johnston, deviating from plan and wasting a year. Sullivan doing things in WB draws Botterills attention which leads to Johnston being fired and Sullivan promoted.

2015, Botterill plan comes to fruition, win Cup.

2016, Botterill tweaks plan, plan comes to fruition, win Cup.

2016, Botterill leaves to Buffalo, because JR was only suppossed to be around for two years, but after the Botterplan produced so well, decides to extend his stay.

2017: After Botterill leaves, and with no plan, JR shifts from what was working to being harder to play against, i.e. toughness. Trades for Reeves, Oleksiak, and Sheahan. Sullivan not happy that his speed game is being taken away.

2018: Continues without a plan and just winging it based on what other teams are doing(??), trades for/signs old slow d-men, further ruining Sullivans speed game.

2019: After having 2 seasons with no plan, not being able to fix his dumb mistakes from previous years, JR paints himself into a corner with the cap, forced to demote players that shouldn't be demoted, and having too few of one and too many of other positions. Sullivan, having enough of the bull**** that has happened, plays JRs mistakes every, single, game. Power struggle happening in front office between Sullivan that wants to get back to the speed game vs JR who doesn't understand what needs to be done because the man with the plan is now in Buffalo.

Meanwhile, in Buffalo, Botterills first year, with the left overs from previous GM, Buffalo put up 25 wins for 62 points. Year two of the Botterill plan they put up 33 wins for 76 points, 14 point improvement. Year three of the Botterill plan, it's 3 games in but Buffalo is 2-0-1, with 13 goals for and 7 against.

Botterill was the lynch pin in all of it. The Penguins should have let JR leave with his 2 Cups and given the reins to Botterill.

Botts didn’t leave in 2016.

I think the obvious move in 2017 was to bump JR to president and let Botts Be GM, but whatever. Botts is like Shero. Different shades of GM.

I do think we would have avoided JJ and Gudbranson with Botts still here as GM tho.

 

[Icarium]

Meanwhile, in Buffalo, Botterills first year, with the left overs from previous GM, Buffalo put up 25 wins for 62 points. Year two of the Botterill plan they put up 33 wins for 76 points, 14 point improvement. Year three of the Botterill plan, it's 3 games in but Buffalo is 2-0-1, with 13 goals for and 7 against.

Botterill is the genius who traded Ryan O'Reilly for scrubs. Was that part of his great plan too? Let's not crown the Sabres just yet, especially after their last game where the Jackets totally outplayed them. Those same Jackets which we pummeled.

 

[USMC607]

Dare I say we miss Maatta on this dumpster fire defense? Kahun blows so far.

Honestly I know Maatta took his deserved lashing here.

But if Kahun continues to be what he is.

We got fleeced. But I mean we saved cap I guess?

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

Honestly I know Maatta took his deserved lashing here.

But if Kahun continues to be what he is.

We got fleeced. But I mean we saved cap I guess?

If you have to choose between 2 mediocre/bad players, wouldn't you select the one with the significantly lower cap hit?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I had a soft spot for Maatta but honestly I don't miss him and don't really see how he helps. Knowing this dumbshit team... that would simply mean they were dressing 10 D right now instead of "only" 9.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

You're not wrong that things look dire, I just think three games is too early to make a determination one way or the other.

Thing is, it isn't just 3 games.

These are the same problems that were clear and present during the dog barf performance vs the Isles. Some different characters, but same results

So it's more like a 7 game sample size at this point

 

[Khelandros]

Botterill is the genius who traded Ryan O'Reilly for scrubs. Was that part of his great plan too? Let's not crown the Sabres just yet, especially after their last game where the Jackets totally outplayed them. Those same Jackets which we pummeled.

Botterill was forced to trade O'Reilly before his signing bonus was due. Other teams know this. That's why he got shit in return, but flip it so it fits.

 

[heysmilinstrange]

Just watched the highlights. Murray... woof.

He was not good at all last night, but I have a hard time blaming him for much beyond the loss. This is what happens to teams when their goaltender has to be one of the best players on the ice every single night or they'll lose. We're basically the Habs now, except our goalie has a worse pedigree and our prospect pool is shallower.

 

[Andy99]

He was not good at all last night, but I have a hard time blaming him for much beyond the loss. This is what happens to teams when their goaltender has to be one of the best players on the ice every single night or they'll lose. We're basically the Habs now, except our goalie has a worse pedigree and our prospect pool is shallower.

ANA is doing that right now with Gibson. It’s fine if your goalie is in the top echelon...Murray is not so we can’t do this

 

[heysmilinstrange]

ANA is doing that right now with Gibson. It’s fine if your goalie is in the top echelon...Murray is not so we can’t do this

My point is that it's not a winning strategy.

 

[Andy99]

My point is that it's not a winning strategy.

maybe not in the long term but it can work for long stretches if the goalie is top notch...heck, MM carried us for about six weeks last season

 

[billybudd]

I view O'Reilly as a less flamboyant, hockey version of Antonio Brown, so I don't really begrudge Botterill for getting rid of him, regardless of the return. If it were up to me, I'd have suspended him for a year for drunk driving his vehicle through the wall of a donut shop, then fleeing the scene.

 

[Mario_is_BACK!!]

"It's just three games!"

No. It's three games that look just like the prior two seasons on a team that's only gotten worse in terms of talent and in terms of results over time. It's not "just three games" it's a continuation of a pattern that, with time to change it, has only been enhanced for the worse.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

I view O'Reilly as a less flamboyant, hockey version of Antonio Brown, so I don't really begrudge Botterill for getting rid of him, regardless of the return. If it were up to me, I'd have suspended him for a year for drunk driving his vehicle through the wall of a donut shop, then fleeing the scene.

It was stated many times that Buff's owner was intent to NOT PAY ROR's bonus

So like Kessel (where everyone in the neighborhood knows you're having a clearance), they were going to get a muted return as opposed to ROR being on the market for generic reasons.